Centre-pins

[Jim Gibbinson]

I'm puzzled. Can anyone tell me why centre-pin reels are so expensive? Yes, I know all about limited production runs etc., but I can't help feeling that they are priced at a level that the market will withstand.

I accept that models which are intended to start spinning at the merest breath of wind, and will keep spinning for a fortnight, are precision products; but ?200 plus? Really? Okay, for a hand-made model turned from a block of alloy, but not when they are factory-made, surely?

And besides, for many sorts of fishing we don't need something with spin-for-a-fortnight qualities, we simply require a bog-standard revolving drum reel (I require that it has a check and a line-guard)that is corrosion-free, moderately free-running and won't fall apart.

I use centre-pins a lot for float fishing - Shakespeare Golden Eagles, actually, priced about ?60 (nearer ?40 from a dealer in Wales) - and they're fine for the job. Leeds centre-pins are okay (similar price, and very free-running, but the model I had didn't have either a check or line-guard so I sold it).

And please, spare me the pretentious nonsense about the use of centre-pins being high artistry... For some purposes, they are simply the best tool for the job. That's all there is to it.

But - apart from the two mentioned - they should be a hell of a lot less expensive.

 

[stu]

Jim - I think you gloss over a couple of points.

Limited market and limited production runs by definition mean that there is a limited potential customer base, and therefore a manufacturer has an equally limited window for mass production and volume sales. At the end of the day they have to make a living !

I cannot comment on the reels you mentioned, although I have heard they are very reasonable performers for their price. I have a JW Young Purist II. Its RRP was about ?210, I paid ?165. Its simply stunning and something I am sure I will be able to hand onto my son one day. When I purchased it I held a Leeds pin and toyed around with it. Very nice, spun well, but frankly just didn't feel near the engineering precision of the JW Young.

At the end of the day you could ask the same question about ?250+ carp rods v's my ?100 types, or indeed very good cheaper ones. In fact I think you would have a more valid argument with these price differentials, where they really are mass manufactured, versus the difference in quality between cheaper and expensive pins where there is a genuine differential in build quality.

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

The majority of anglers who buy centre pins want something that looks good with the classic design of the old Aerials.

To produce such a thing costs a great deal of time and money, to a limited market.

I personally own two classic centerpins, an Aerial type and a Flick 'em type made by JW Young. I bought them more as investments rather than to fish with them. They also look good when you photograph a decent roach laying next to these reels.

The Leeds reels are probably the best value for money these days.

 

[Tim Ridge]

I picked up all mine second hand for under ?30 each. I suspect none are of the quality of the ?200 reels mentioned but one an adcock stanton has all the features you mention Jim. Try scouring the second hand columns, visiting car boot sales and the like.

 

[stu]

Adcock Stanton for ?30 is a great buy!

 

[Jeff (Cheeky Monkey) Woodhouse]

They've been selling the new Okuma Aventa reels like on here

This one's the silver, but the nice bronze one was going earlier tonight for about ?60 . Retail they're only ?69 and ?79 so perhaps Okuma are trying to increase the size of the centrepin market. let's hope so.

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Funnt thing with centrepins is that you see lots of people talking about which one to buy & very few people fishing with them!

 

[Fred Bonney]

I was given a Youngs Heritage (John Wilson) as a 'retirement' present in March 2002,I take it with me every time I go down to the river and bring it back untouched!
One day I'll give it a try and will let you know if it gives me anymore satisfaction than my Avon Royal Supreme.

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't help feeling that if good quality centre-pins arrived here from the Far East (possibly they have - I haven't yet seen the Okuma model) then we'd see those that have hitherto cost ?200 and more becoming much less expensive.

And all the while centre-pins cost ?200+, I'm not surprised that they have limited sales.

Anyway, thank you to everyone for the comments, but I remain far from convinced that centre-pins need cost as much as they do.

Just had a thought... fly reels are, in effect, centre-pins, in that they are revolving drum reels. With a 50 quid budget you'd have a vast choice. You'd have difficulty paying as much as ?200 even if you were prepared to. Doesn't that say something?

 

[Keith Orange]

I used to a big fan of centre pin reels, yet now I no longer use them. They are nice to use especially if you are float fishing close ito the bank in fast shallow water. But once the water gets deep and you want to fish further out, then using them is a bit of a bind - pulling out 4 or 5 loops of line becomes a chore, and they have a tendency to tangle if the wind is in your face.

I must confess - nowadays I've replaced my Leeds reels and aerials with an ABU closed faced reel.

 

[Peter Knight]

I have 4 centre pins at the moment, they are superb to use for many different kinds of fishing.

I have a golden eagle and a black match which are almost identical. I've had them for over 20 years but I'm sure they are made by Grice and Young (did Shakespeare buy them out?) these have been on pike rods for the last few years and I use them for trolling.

I have a Bob James (masterline)pin which I use for light trotting. This is a superb reel and I'd recommend it to anyone. If you have a little more to spend buy the lightweight version for around ?275.00

My last one is a heavier prototype that I managed to pick up and I use it for barbel fishing. It's great for trotting but I also use it for close ledgering as a second rod. I feel safe knowing that it wont get dragged in (No I don't walk off and leave it!)and the ratchet is a great alarm!

As for cost I really don't think ?200 is too much to pay for a good centerpin that will last a lifetime but I agree that they seem expensive compared to other reels that have more moving parts.

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

Now this is interesting and I make no apology for telling you the following:

The complete tooling for the Grice and Young range of reels was aquired some 25 years ago by an old fishing aquaintance of mine, one Tony Jerecivich of Knysna, Cape Province - South Africa.

As far as I know he is still making those reels and distributing them world wide through Shakespeare.

 

[Peter Knight]

Ron,

Thanks, it's a small world eh?

I bought the Golden Eagle from a local tackle dealer who was closing down and now that I think about it that was probably in the late 1970's. He also had a spare spool so I grabbed that too.

The other (I'm pretty sure it's called a black match) I bought in the early 1980's.

I did see a Golden Eagle sold on e.bay as an antique recently which made me feel pretty old !!!!

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

The company is called Vivtech and is run by Viv Foster who once had a tackle making business in Johannesburg.

www.fishingvivtech.com

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

The reason why the tooling for this range of reels was taken to SA is partly due to enormous popularity of the Orlando side casting reel in that country.

And the fact that British labour rates and import costs made the reels very expensive

In their day these reels could outcast the normal fixed spool reel. This was before the advent of what we call Big Pit reels, which were developed by the Americans for beach fishing in conjunction with Shimano and Daiwa.

The main advantage of the Orlando was that you could reverse the spool when you put it on the front spindle for casting, thus avoiding line twist. There is even a memory switch which reminds you which direct to mount the spool.

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

Yes Ron, the Welsh firm to whom I referred earlier (Mainwarings, I think they're called) list the Eagle range as Vivtech, made in S.A.

Re. Grice and Young... I have a G&Y sea centre-pin (Called "Seajecta", I think - a sort of coffee colour), it's a well-made reel and, when it was available, was very reasonably priced. I had another sea centre-pin called the Wirral (not sure who made it), which span for ever once you set it in motion. Again, very reasonably priced.

I stand by my contention that modern centre-pins are priced at what the market will tolerate. And by paying such prices, we're colluding with and encouraging what I believe to be an unjustified pricing structure.

And perhaps a tackle dealer would like to tell us what the profit-margin is on a ?200 plus centre-pin? Also the commission to named anglers who endorse the product. Factor those two elements into the equation and we might see what they ought to sell for, rather than what they do sell for.

I'm not suggesting that retailers shouldn't make a decent profit, or even that named endorsers shouldn't get commission in exchange for their input at the design stage (cough!)- but I object to being overcharged in the process.

 

[Paul Christie 3]

Jim
I have seen the Okuma model and I am sure this will blow market open. At ?70 quid it is fabulous value and looks really good too.

I reckon this could well bring down the prices of other models and I don't think any of them are significantly better than the Okuma - certainly not ?150 different.

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

It would be interesting to know what the originals of many of these modern reproductions sold for in relation to other tackle of the day.That might prove Jims point.

What can't be argued with is the quality of the build & materials of those original reels.Only time will tell if the Okuma lasts as long.

 

[Ron Troversial Clay]

About 1965, I bought a 4 1/2 inch Match Aerial for about ?6.00. This was about 1/2 of my weekly pay then.

The latest replicas of these reels sell at ?250.00 which again is just under 1/2 of my weekly pay.

I wish I had that reel today. A bloody horse destroyed it at Lenwade on the Wensum.

Maybe Graham should aquire one of these Okuma reels and review it.

One the subject of centre pin reels, I often wonder why some of the Large Arbour fly reels are so expensive. I like the Large Arbour concept but look at the prices.

Mind you some of the moneyed fly fishers I know will pay anything to be seen with the latest bit of tartishism (how about that for a new buzzword?)

 

[Paul Christie 3]

I thought you could buy a house with ?6 in 1965????