A lesson learnt

[Rog Hill]

Having read a number of threads debating whether it is more productive to point the rod skywards or down and close to the water, I tried both methods today. Two rods, side by side, same bait and same rig. Only difference was a pin on the downward pointing and a baitrunner on the other.

Result, 4 barbel and 3 bream to the down method and sweet fanny adams to the skyward rod, not even a bite. Might be coincidence, but I know which way I'll be fishing from now on.

Rog

 

[captain carrott]

were you fishing a still water or river?

 

[Rog Hill]

I was fishing the Hampshire Avon which was looking great after the rain we had last week.

 

[captain carrott]

so i'm guessing the downward pointing rod was also the down stream rod

 

[Rog Hill]

Actually no, it was the upstream. Cast about 15 ft straight out, with the other a couple of yards downstream.

 

[captain carrott]

hmm and did you switch the rod that you were catching on from up wards pointing to downwards pointing at all?

 

[peter crabtree]

I often see anglers on the Colne with rods skywards, I call them the sea anglers..........
I keep my tip down near the surface and let a small bow form in the line helping pinning the line to the bottom. The only downside is it is possible to miss on the on the drop bites while the line settles in the current.
Surely if you fish rod up there is a submerged obstacle that fish will feel, ie your line..........

 

[Steve Spiller]

Wouldn't it depend on the strength of the flow? And what species you are fishing for?

 

[Rog Hill]

Hi Steve,

was targetting barbel and 2 oz was more than enough to pin it down.

 

[Neil Maidment]

There's a couple of anglers we both know Roger, who fish with the rod down and low. Mainly on the Stour and with the centrepin. Both are very successful with barbel. Even taking into account their opportunity to fish at the right time and right conditions they are very succesful indeed.

Many conversations last year convinced me to fish that way in several different scenarios (and also use back leads for the first time). In the limited opportunities I had, I did catch several barbel and like you, I know I will adopt the same style again.

Also, the sound of the 'pin announcing the arrival of the barbel is quite something!

 

[Steve Spiller]

Hi Rog,

So is this just a barbel thing? Would you fish tips down in the swim you fished on the BA last time? I'm intrigued.....

I fish 'tips up' for roach and chub unless there is no or very little flow.

 

[Neil Maidment]

For me it's just the barbel. Fortunately most Avon and Stour barbel still give the "two foot twitch" (feeding barbel are stupid). As far as I'm concerned, when that "twitch" is translated by a screaming centrepin, rather than a hooped over tip, it's one of the best bite indicators going!

Mind you there are still several swims/scenarios where I would use the "tip up" style.

Some of my best chub catches (when I can't trot a float, so perhaps they aren't my "best" catches) have been tip up and sometimes the indications are very slight indeed.

 

[Steve Spiller]

For me it's just the barbel. Fortunately most Avon and Stour barbel still give the "two foot twitch" (feeding barbel are stupid). As far as I'm concerned, when that "twitch" is translated by a screaming centrepin, rather than a hooped over tip, it's one of the best bite indicators going!

Mind you there are still several swims/scenarios where I would use the "tip up" style.

Some of my best chub catches (when I can't trot a float, so perhaps they aren't my "best" catches) have been tip up and sometimes the indications are very slight indeed.

Some of my best chub catches (when I can't trot a float, so perhaps they aren't my "best" catches) have been tip up and sometimes the indications are very slight indeed.

Huh, eliteist float angler eh?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Blimey how did I do that???

 

[flightliner]

Huh, eliteist float angler eh?

Steve, I know that you have at least one!!(lol)

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Hmmm! Is it significant that Rog Hill didn't reply to Jasper's query about whether he swapped the styles over! You can't run a test with two rods positioned in different spots if one rod is catching the obvious thing would be to swap positions then, and only then, would it prove or disprove the theory.

I am of the school that believes a skyward pointing rod (its actually less than 45 degs usually) not only gives just as good indications but in powerful flows lessens the pressure on the line which should always have a bow in it. On slow moving rivers and lakes I tend to fish the tip low down because it is easier to watch the tip in that position but it doesn't make one iota of difference in bite registration in my experience.

 

[captain carrott]

Hmmm! Is it significant that Rog Hill didn't reply to Jasper's query about whether he swapped the styles over! You can't run a test with two rods positioned in different spots if one rod is catching the obvious thing would be to swap positions then, and only then, would it prove or disprove the theory.

I am of the school that believes a skyward pointing rod (its actually less than 45 degs usually) not only gives just as good indications but in powerful flows lessens the pressure on the line which should always have a bow in it. On slow moving rivers and lakes I tend to fish the tip low down because it is easier to watch the tip in that position but it doesn't make one iota of difference in bite registration in my experience.

this is a rather important question graham, it would mean the difference between some supporting evidence for the theory and a meaningless experiment for a start.

or to put it another way i could go to the river fish only maggot as bait and proclaim it to be the best bait to use on that river with exactly the same degree of evidence as what is currently presented here to support the tip up tip down theory.

 

[Paul H]

Agree with Messers Carrot and Whatmore here. With no degree of control experiment to compare the results against no conclusive result can be detrmined.

Also, unless you are fishing the near margin, I am dubious as to how much different the angle of the underwater line is near the feeder/lead in either scenario anyway.

Rod tip up has its advantages in stronger flows, helping to hold bottom without using 8oz leads. I was amazed at the difference both this and having a bow in your line made when I first learnt and tried them.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Moderator Hat: Off i.e. this is my personal opinion

I think one or two are being a little disingenuous on this . . . . .

To start with; Rog never said this was a "controlled experiment" neither did he offer 'supporting evidence' all he damn well said was that he tried this out, and on that particular day, on that particular river with those particular rigs that he had better success with the rod in one inclination over another.

For crying out aloud, the way some of you "go on" its a wonder that anyone ever posts anything on these fora!

Moderator Hat: Back on.

 

[captain carrott]

Moderator Hat: Off i.e. this is my personal opinion

I think one or two are being a little disingenuous on this . . . . .

To start with; Rog never said this was a "controlled experiment" neither did he offer 'supporting evidence' all he damn well said was that he tried this out, and on that particular day, on that particular river with those particular rigs that he had better success with the rod in one inclination over another. ***

For crying out aloud, the way some of you "go on" its a wonder that anyone ever posts anything on these fora!

Moderator Hat: Back on.

for a post which claims a lesson learned then what would you suggest was the lesson, is it that you can catch fish sometimes if you use a fishing rod ?

why is it you also appear to be suggesting we not try to find out if there is actually any usefull information there at all. by posing perfectly civilised and reasonable questions.

*** you could equally use this as proof that fishing one rod is better than fishing 2,
fishing upstream is better than fishing downstream.

the fact of the matter is there's nothing there.

other than the fact that he might have stumbled on a hot spot for that particular swim, and were he to fish a bait in the same place next time he might pick up a few bites there regardless of method used or which direction the end of his rod was pointing.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Moderator hat: Off, personal opinion only

Jason,

"for a post which claims a lesson learned then what would you suggest was the lesson"

Read the words: " and on that particular day, on that particular river with those particular rigs that he had better success with the rod in one inclination over another. "

"why is it you also appear to be suggesting we not try to find out if there is actually any usefull information there at all. by posing perfectly civilised and reasonable questions."

I am simply suggesting that in the interests of good manners that I do not consider the following as 'civilised or reasonable' especially noting that the original poster has never claimed to be offering 'supporting evidence' qiite the contrary in fact.

"this is a rather important question graham, it would mean the difference between some supporting evidence for the theory and a meaningless experiment for a start."

As I view this, Rog is/was purely telling of his experiences as I have clarified above, for even the most analytical of scientists to understand, so to suggest that his experience was 'meaningless' I find somewhat disingenuous.

Paul:

"Agree with Messers Carrot and Whatmore here. With no degree of control experiment to compare the results against no conclusive result can be detrmined."

Same comment, therefore the same answer from me, the original poster did not suggest that his experiences were anything other than, well, experiences really.

He has drawn a conclusion for Himself, but if you have a real desire to conduct a controlled experiment (to a conclusive end) then if you have the time I am sure that the Editors would be happy to publish your (or Jason's) findings accordingly, either in an article of on a new thread.

All I am really suggesting here Jason and Paul, is to give the man a little 'slack' Rog is a very good and experienced angler and all he is doing is passing on this information.

Moderator hat; back on