Hemp & tares & bloody dace !

[S-Kippy]

Fished at Walton on the Thames last week with Simon [Peter Crabtree] and thoroughly enjoyed meself trotting for silver fish. We didn't get loads of fish but it was really enjoyable. Hemp & tares.

I enjoyed it so much I charged off to Windsor to try an old haunt that I've not fished for years.River in fantastic nick and I had a dream of a trot absolutely stuffed full of fish....mostly kipper dace but some nice roach too.

Could I hook them ? Could I hell ! I know dace can be challenging but dace on hemp/tares are a nightmare. A lot I think were shot bites but even so I doubt I hit 1 in 10 bites. I went big hook,small hook,stick float,waggler,up in the water,on the bottom,heavy feeding,no feeding,hemp,tare,elderberry and 4mm pellet on the hook.Made no difference at all.The river was literally boiling with fish this morning...they were everywhere and I had a shedload right under me rod tip in 7-8 foot of water. I finished with maybe 6-7lb of fish but I should have trebled that.

What's the trick...if indeed there is one ? Was it me or is it just dace being dace and how the hell do I get through them to the roach I know are there ?

Skippy

 

[captain carrott]

fish 6 meters to hand with an olivette to get it down through em quick and hold it back quite hard, used to work for me every time a bit further up stream

 

[S-Kippy]

Aaaargh....I knew someone was going to say that ! I'm afraid I just dont do poles....I'm a running line man.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Even on the stick, set a bulk at least half depth with just a couple of droppers and do as C.C. described, hold back and you'll feel them take, don't strike too hard and if you miss the bite you can let the rig continue it's run through.

 

[slime monster]

Don't know about Dace mate but I used to stop feeding hemp and fed just tares when Roach fishing if the problem continued it was just not the right day for the seed , the infuriating thing about the bait is most days it seems to sort out the better fish and on others all sizes have it. my prefered method was the over shotted stick.

 

[S-Kippy]

So many fish in front of me today I doubt one grain made the bottom.Shame..cos plan B was to stick a lump of meat on after a couple of hours to see if Captain Whiskers had moved in. Trouble was I got stuck on plan A.

I even tried artificial hemp.I caught on it too but its got no "give" so I think they were bouncing off it. At one point I was on a size 12 hook and still missing bites that buried the float and held it under.

I was also on a 30 year old Daiwa rod and Swedish made Abu 501....and they were just as good as anything else in my holdall too.

 

[slime monster]

Hmmm too many fish can be a nightmare , all I can think of is ..bait dropper

 

[blankmeister]

When I was a kid on the Thames , at this time of year, we used elderberries as hookbait and loosefed with hemp. The Roach and Dace bites were much easier to hit

 

[Mark Wintle]

Apart from trying elderberries, changing the feed to be three really big handfuls every twenty minutes can work as the fish then have to slowly browse the bottom - don't feed at all in between. Light constant feeding gets them charging around too much. Using a pole float with rod and line can work surprisingly well.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Funnily enough I was talking to Woody at Hereford in the week about whether or not the roach are back and he said the river is absolutely crammed with dace, "never seen so many" he said. Perhaps there is a mini explosion of them, it happens sometimes with river species, mind you it is a welcome explosion if it is, about time we had a load of dace in our rivers.

The dace at Hereford run quite big, a bit like the Wye dace of old when they averaged a very high weight and pound dace were quite common, they mysteriously disappeared in the early 90's along with the big shoals of roach.

Whatever the reasons for this latest explosion it is to be welcomed and as for catching them Skippy, no one said they had to be easy, that makes the catching of one a lot more satisfying, buy yourself a pole and fish like a matchman if you really want to improve your catch rate.

 

[Alan Tyler]

Have you tried the dodge of a big cork on a porcupine quill, the theory being that shot-bites and spit-outs will just bob, proper bites will (sometimes) hook themselves against the bouyancy of the (hugely undershotted) float?
Yes, I know it's a bolt-rig, but desperate times, desperate measures...

 

[S-Kippy]

Alan : Sort of tried that by undershotting my float and ignoring everything that didn't bury and hold the float.

Graham :I will never use a pole.If missing dace bites is the price I have to pay then that's a good deal so far as this die hard running line,proper float man is concerned. A pox on them.

Mark : The irregular dollop I did NOT try and I like the idea. Next time I shall dropper a pint in and not feed.

Any observations on hooks ? Pattern,size etc ? I tried various sizes and patterns without ever really finding one I was totally convinced by.

 

[dezza]

Here is the "Tare Fly".

Hook: Kamasan size 16 B175
Thread: Black Silk

Place hook in vice and start winding on a black silk body, the same size and shape as a tare grain. Whip finish and give at least 3 coats of varnish.

Fish as normal with stick or waggler float.

It saves you having to bait the hook beween fish.

And you think I am kidding!

 

[peter crabtree]

The lower Thames and the tidal have always had huge dace shoals, this year the population has certainly come back with a vengeance, despite the constant cormorant predation and some pollution incidents.
Skippy I know you won't try a pole but as Graham says the pole is king for this method on the Thames , especially when you have shallow water a rod length out and the fish are further out over the drop off, as is the case on many lower Thames venues.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Ah! Skippy, why do you handicap yourself using a single method, half the fun of angling is the various means of catching fish, you are a bit like fly anglers, choose a species then try by every means possible not to catch them.

I always have been a float angler by preference but it doesn't stop me from using other methods if they are better suited for the job in hand. It is hard enough most times to catch fish without handicapping oneself by restricting how you do it. Each to his own though I guess.

Don't know about Ron's method but what does work when they are feeding is a small black bead with a piece of white pole elastic tied through it to imitate the kernel and to attach the hook to. I've used it many times and saves so much time especially if its cold or your fingers are lacking in feeling as mine are.

 

[captain carrott]

it really does baffle me when people ask for advice on how to deal with a situation and when given the information say oh no i'm not going to do that it's not what i do.

 

[Steve Spiller]

Skippy, how were you hooking the tare?

I too have had this problem, so I fish a size 12 wide gape and set the tare on the shank of the hook with the whole bend of the hook showing. Works for me, but you still miss a few because the tare slips onto the bend sometimes. And I always bulk the shot 18 inches from the hook, no droppers.

Good luck.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Look, lets face it mate, you're getting on and your reactions are shot.

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

I'm not trying to be funny here, but could some (or even a lot) of the fish in front of you be rather smaller than you think? I've had a couple of sessions on the thames this year fishing up in the water with maggots when I've experienced similar numbers of missed bites... however, it turns out that in amongst the decent dace and roach are HORDES of tiny chub, which are actually well capable of pulling the float under... just a thought

 

[jcp01]

I had this trouble last year and the problem was an incorrect feeding regime. When I got home I boned up on Roach Fishing by 'Faddist', where he explains the entire hemp feeding regime brilliantly, went back, did it right, and cleaned up. I had got the whole thing a bit backwards.

I was dace fishing BTW, not roach, and with red maggots, so not entirely useful advice given here! but I'm sure you know what I mean?