Good Roach - is it in the clouds?

[no-one in particular]

Went fishing yesterday and caught 10/12 very good roach. Not 2lb or 1lb; just very good roach for the water. Above the average size which is usually 4in 5in fish. These were all 8-12 inches. Maybe one or two nudging the 1lb mark. When I started fishing thier were clouds in the sky and these good roach were feeding well. When the clouds cleared the roach stopped feeding. I was only fishing for 3 hours and the last half hour the clouds came back and the roach came on again. I have always believed that big roach only come out to play when the conditions really suit them and this is why they seem to "disappear" for weeks or months at a time.
The above was a good example- I know this is often what roach fishing does; they feed for a while and then go and come back but, was it the cloud cover that switched them on or off or was this just coincidence?

 

[captain carrott]

more probably that the cloud cover changed the light levels to where they were happy to feed or where your setup could fool them

 

[dezza]

Carrot is probably right. The roach, like most cyprinids, do not like bright lights.

With the exception of dace perhaps.

 

[cg74]

Carrot is probably right. The roach, like most cyprinids, do not like bright lights.

With the exception of dace perhaps.

And minnows .

 

[Tee-Cee]

Out of interest were you fishing river or stillwater and how deep was the swim?

Most decent roach I've ever had were caught under low light level conditions(not necessarily in overcast daytime conditions)but either very early in the morning or very late in the evening....mainly the latter.
Obviously depth of swim plays a major part as well and if I've been lucky enough to catch them in sunshine its always been in deep swims-certainly over 10 feet..

The other factor(IMO)that seems to affect roach is temperature change-for example a sudden flush of rainwater or a cold wind seems to put them down....and to do very well a period of settled days always helps..

I always think of that wonderful catch that Bob James made in 'A Passion for Angling' when he landed a large number of 2lb plus roach in very overcast conditions BUT if I remember correctly he had to change swims several times before he located feeding fish which suggests that roach don't always feed even in seemingly ideal conditions-it all comes down to location and a large slice of luck!!

Markg..I wonder if you went back to the same swim several days in a row you would find the fish feeding......

Anyway its always nice to catch above average fish for the water regardless of size so well done!!

 

[no-one in particular]

Tee Cee

A river - Good point Tee Cee; I did change swim. The first swim was about 2-3ft and I caught one average roach but then nothing for 1/2 hour. The river was a bit down than usual and I wasn't too happy in this swim so I moved down 100yds to a swim about 5-6ftish deep just by a bridge. The water was what I would describe as some/colour and I guess the sunlight would have penetrated down 5-6ft just about but, less so than the previous swim. I was actually after a chub which I had down as the conditions being best for but, big/roach were my second best shot. I didn't catch a chub but, did well with the big/roach! But, as said only when the cloud covered the sun. It was just quite marked the way they stopped feeding during about an hour of sunlight and then came back on for the last half hour when the cloud return.
If I went back there in a row I guess if the conditions stayed favourably for big roach they may carry on feeding but, I reckon with big roach I small difference in the conditions and they will stop feeding whereas the smaller roach would continue to feed. This is what I have gathered from records etc that its much more crucial for the right conditions to be in place for big roach. I am only generlising here as I know any fish can be caught at anytime and there will always be exceptions but, interesting nevertheless.

 

[Mark Wintle]

I've had this many times. Most usual as sun sets obviously - the classic gloaming. One interesting example where the sun continued shining was catching roach on the long pole in the shadow of a tree during a match on the narrow upper Stour. As the shadow moved so did the roach. Outside of the shadow not a bite. The pole made it easy to present the bait in the right spot on a slow moving river. Can't remember exact depth but 5ft is likely.

 

[Lark]

This was one of the frustrations of a local evening league that was fished for many years on my local Thames. Nominally, matches were fished from 6:00pm to 9:00pm with roach, dace and perch being the main targets. Cloudy and rainy evenings were generally more productive but it was the final 45 minutes that you wanted to last forever as the direct sunlight was off the water by this time and the light/shadows had settled evenly. The stretch used to change into a different river. It was generally pretty frenetic stuff for this last period and pretty often won and lost on the dog roach and large dace caught (or not) during this period. It was crucial that you always saved enough caster for this period.

 

[no-one in particular]

Different conditions.

Just out of interest I went back to the same swim as on Sunday. Same time of day. Very slow and had one roach slightly above average size. On Sunday I had 10+ very good roach. The main difference was that the wind was a lot less strong and it was bright and sunny for the duration. Whereas I was catching plenty of good roach on Sunday when the cloud covered the sun there was no cloud cover yesterday. Other changes in the conditions were more suitable for big/roach ie. wind direction, air temperatures and moon phase and on balance it should have still been good for big/roach but, I still believe the cloud cover was key. I have also detected a trend that big/roach tend to feed more when there is a bit of wind about so, this may have also been a factor.
I know just two fishings sessions dont mean much and there could have been plenty of other reasons for the difference but, it was quite a different days fishing.

 

[flightliner]

Years ago in the wintertime I used to fish a stretch of the upper witham that held some really nice roach.Arriving early was fine until the sun came up from behind. At that point the fish would do the usual game of hard to tempt until the late afternoon, or if the sun went behind/above a blanket of cloud.Dogwalkers were a curse as the shadows cast would put any remaining fish that were disposed to feeding into flight in the relatively shallow water. One winter, anticipating this behaviour, I made a floating raft with two black bin liners that were held afloat by polyballs at each corner and along its length. By arriving well before sunup I used to position the "raft"just over the marginal weed towards the bottom of my chosen swim, fishing well overdepth I was able to inch my bait under the raft and on numerous occasions carried on taking roach well after the sun came up.One day a dogwalker came up to me and enquired if I had taken any fish, I did have some in the keepnet but played down the numbers by saying that it was a bit slower than usual-- he replied that if people didnt litter the river with bin bags I would do a lot better!!

 

[dezza]

One winter, anticipating this behaviour, I made a floating raft with two black bin liners that were held afloat by polyballs at each corner and along its length

Years ago I used to fish for the very fine roach of the River Leam in Warwickshire. On one particular stretch, the marginal bushes and trees spread across the water. In doing so they stopped quite a bit of flotsam and jetsam which formed quite wide rafts over the river. These rafts were often very reliable for holding good chub, but on one occasion I found a shoal of very good roach crammed under one of them.

By using a two swanshot link leger I was able to get my bread flake bait to wash right under the raft. This produced 8 roach, all over the pound, the best going 1 lb 11oz.

Then one got off the hook and I spooked them. I tried that raft again some time later but all I got was a 4 lb chub.

 

[no-one in particular]

It is in the clouds/dark.

Went back again on Sunday. Almost the same conditions again and the same result; one fair roach but, missed a few bites. Again it was very sunny. Had one other roach from another swim. I will leave it now untill the weather is overcast hopefully soon so as the other conditions stay relatively the same; just out of interest!. I have September down as a good month for big roach.
It does seem that big roach are more likely to feed in cloudy or darker conditions.
One thing I have noticed over the years is that when big roach come on I tend to catch quite a few; not always of course but more often than not. It is not often I catch just one. I dont catch many smaller roach when this happens sometimes none; just the big roach. Conversely, when I catch small roach I rarely catch a decent roach?

 

[Tee-Cee]

Don't know what bait(s) you're using but maybe it's worth having a go with some unfashionable bait like fresh crust cubes(1/4-1/2" square)squeezed flat and then fluffs up in the water or even a lobworm tail......might just sort out the bigger fish which these baits have tended to do for me in the late evening when maggots/casters have only produced smaller fish...

Anyway,just a thought!

 

[no-one in particular]

mainly bread

Don't know what bait(s) you're using but maybe it's worth having a go with some unfashionable bait like fresh crust cubes(1/4-1/2" square)squeezed flat and then fluffs up in the water or even a lobworm tail......might just sort out the bigger fish which these baits have tended to do for me in the late evening when maggots/casters have only produced smaller fish...

Anyway,just a thought!

I mainly use bread nowadays and sweetcorn. I have been using bread on this river in the main; either bits of flake or crust. I usually push a bait needle through a bit of crust and then pull the hook back through and twist it round. I use barbless fourteen size hooks and a split shot about 2 inches from the bait to take it down to the bottom and just cock the float. I have been missing a few bites lately though and sometimes it has felt like good fish lost. If I use flake I either put it on by sticking the hook into it and squeezing it hard just around the eye of the hook or I squeeze it arond the hook and just leave the edges fluffy but, I find the fish often just nibble the edges when i do this. I have never really been happy with the way I fish with bread; am I doing this right or is there a better way.
I am same with sweetcorn, if I use two or three on the hook the fish often just seem to go for one sweetcorn and i miss the fish. If i use one sweetcorn I always feel the hook to obvious. I dont like going smaller than a 14 hook but, any tips would be welcome. Whats the best way to put sweetcorn or flake/crust on? I usually nick sweetcorn just through the skin at the blunt end? any suggestions welcome.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Mark,

This is the time of year for hemp and caster, and if they'll have it, elderberry and tares (even maple peas). Parts of the Thames have been fishing extremely well of late for roach to these methods. I had hoped to get on there myself but not sure I'll be able to at the moment. My local river is producing roach to caster. Bread is better after mid November.

 

[no-one in particular]

Mark,

This is the time of year for hemp and caster, and if they'll have it, elderberry and tares (even maple peas). Parts of the Thames have been fishing extremely well of late for roach to these methods. I had hoped to get on there myself but not sure I'll be able to at the moment. My local river is producing roach to caster. Bread is better after mid November.

Thanks Mark, I sometimes use hemp which I know will attract roach but, I have never tried elderberry. I have got a load in my next door garden tree. Do you just use them as they are and throw some in as ground bait? Is it better to use them with hemp or just on thier own? Is it best to use them single on the hook or two or three and whats the best size hook. Sorry for all the questions but I would like to give them a try. Do other fish take them? cheers.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Feed hemp with the odd berry. Use them as they are on a fine wire 18 or 16 hook. I've also had dace and chub on them.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Just a great way of fishing(hemp & berry) trotted under a nice porcupine quill...middle reaches of the Thames(Remenham stretch nr Henley used to be fantastic!)...nothing better for my money!

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Richond Bridge on the Thames was always good for trotting caster and hemp, and the odd tare wouldn't go a miss at times.

Before the fake baits came onto the market, myself and a couple of friends use to put Aruldite glue (not sure thats how you speel it) on some hooks. we would paint it black before it set.

The glue was set at the bottom of the shank with the point showing, trotting dowm with this the fish took it as tare or hemp, and you didn't have to keep baiting the hook every cast, must get back to doing this again.

 

[matt1960]

Elderberries will tend to plump up considerably during September, and the easiest way to get them from the sprigs, is combing with a dinner fork over a bowl. Very few break this way.
They really are an excellent bait with hemp fed little and often. They sink at roughly the same speed and are easy to hook.