The Knock

[pete proctor]

Cracking article Roy, describing exactly what happens when barbel are in the swim.

But I'm not sure if setting your gear up to actually attract these line bites is a good thing or not. I have always tried to avoid letting the barbel run into the line by pinning my line to the bottom with lead core or back leads.

Now you've made me think about this some more and I'm wondering if pinning the line down is necessary. If you don't then 'The Knock' definitely gives you the signs you need to know there are barbel in the swim so you can move if you don't get the knock.

Some good food for thought there. What do others think?

 

[Geoff Cowen]

I fail to see how you can distinguish between line bits and debris coming down the river. I fished last week and had constant tip movement and on each time I retrieved the line I found a small amount of debris around the lead and hook. As I blanked I am fairly sure the movement wasn?t down to fish.

 

[GrahamM]

You CAN tell the difference Geoff. Hard to describe the difference but it's there and you have no doubt when it happens.

 

[swordsy]

Yes, I agree with Graham, the line bite or knock has life to it. Your rod tip judders or jags its not just a steady thud as when you pick up debris.

 

[fred hall]

Swordsy that is a most elegant way of putting it.

 

[GrahamM]

Yes, excellent description that Lee. That really sums it up.

 

[Matt Brown]

Geoff, debris will move the tip at the pace of the current.

As everyone else has said, fish will often move the line at a faster rate. Often this movement will only be a couple of millimetres or so, but it easy to spot the more you fish.

I find using a quivertip much more advantagous for the very reason that I want to know if fish are in teh swim are not.

Working out what is going on and what fish they are is the next task.

Martin Bowler reckons that if you're getting knocks and liners and you don't get a pickup within 15 minutes then they've sussed your rig. He suggests you should try something different. This could be a change in hook size or simply posisitioning the rig a foot further downstream.

This makes sense to me, except on the really pressured waters where I'm told the wiser fish will often test a bait, return later and do the same for anything up to couple of hours. Some times they'll have it - sometimes they won't.

 

[Geoff Cowen]

We weren?t taking about knocks as a result of the fish mouthing the bait, which are distinct. We were talking about liners. Liners are quit different and are often the same as debris catching the line. Slow steady short pull round are typical of liners not the rod tip judders or jags as Swordsy describes.

 

[GrahamM]

I'm refering to liners Geoff. Barbel very, very rarely mouth the bait without getting hooked, simply because they drop down onto a bait and take it straight in. That's why you most often get rod-bending bites through them taking the bait and taking off with it all at the same time.

So why do some of us touch leger?

So we can feel that initial touching of the barbules on the line and 'the knock' and be ready for the bite.

 

[swordsy]

On a strtch of pressured water i fished the barbel would not take a static bait so I lengthened the tail to six foot and bumped the feeder down the swim the resulting bites were the legendary/ mythical "hacksaw" types shortly followed by a slam down, I was netting 100lb of barbel when all others were getting one or two at most......happy days.

 

[Geoff Cowen]

I'm glad you said mythical as I have jet to experience hacksaw effect. I have spent many hour touch ledgering and have jet to find any benefit to this method. I have however perfected the having a pee method, which generally results in a lost fish and a wet leg.

 

[swordsy]

LOL
:O)

The hacksaw bite is bizzare, it really does feel like a saw being run down the line, followed by a flutter then as you wind down the Whallop!

 

[Geoff Cowen]

I'm planning to fish a different stretch of the Swale next season, fishing with a more mobile approach. Touch ledgering will be my main method, so maybe I'll find out for myself about the hacksaw bite. I'm also planning to do so meat rolling as I have just bought one of the Ray Walton Rolling Pins, so any tips on how to fish with it would be gratefully received.

 

[Matt Brown]

Geoff, I'm certainly no where as experienced as many of the people on this site, but I'm convinced many people put more knocks down to liners or Chub than they should.

If a fish mouths the bait and turns away slowly and the hook falls out that might look like a liner.

Graham, having spoken to friends who fish for pressured fish they can see, many of them have seen Barbel repeatedly mouth the bait and drop it with no indication on the rod tip whatsoever.

I've said it before, but I've had a couple of occassions where I've had multiple catches by striking at tiny vibrations that didn't register on the rod top. This is while others around me were blanking while waiting for the rod to drag in.

I think it was Tony Miles who wrote an article for CF or CAT where it was pointed out that the feeding technique employed would have an influence on how the Barbel reacted after taking the bait.

Will lots of small particles on the river bed, such as maggots, small pellets or hemp the fish would often take one bait after the other without hardly moving.

With large baits they would hit it hard and bolt off downstream.

This is making more and more sense to me the more I fish for Barbel.

I'm sure most Barbel anglers who are fishing stiff Avon style rod tops just aren't aware of what they're missing.

Those of you who just wait for the alarm to go are missing even more. Many times I've seen my rod tips rattle without the alarm giving even a single bleep.

 

[GrahamM]

For reference:

Barbel Bites

 

[Geoff Cowen]

Thanks for the link Graham.

 

[jason fisher]

pete i wouldn't abandon the backleading completely. i've seen barbel shoot out of the swim like rockets after noticing line on the windrush.

 

[fazz]

r u the same roy sutton that used 2 work 4 tarmac 16 year ago? looks like we followed same root on different rivers. i fish the trent at nottingham 4 monster barbel, over 30 doubles this season 2 15lb.

 

[Albert Watkinson 2]

i never fish for liners.if they are there and want it no problem.i caught my first barbel in 1970 and at that time i had on several trips to the severn the so called hacksaw on the line.i asked a good brummie barbel man what it could be.he told me the barbel had the bait in his mouth and strike.at that time i was the fastest striker south of the pecos and could not hit a bite.i say it is a myth and the fish is touching the line with anything only his mouth.i know a very good barbel man that had the hacksaw with the fish not near his bait in clear water