What is an 'Avon' rod?

[willyjohn]

Greetings Fellow Travellers,

I know this question will have been asked many times before, but I'm going to have to ask it once again, sorry.

My puzzlements are as follows,

1] What is an Avon rod, is it 'just a tip' [or tips] or is it a 'complete rod'?

2] For what form of angling does one resort to using an Avon rod? Can it, an Avon rod, be used for float fishing, feeder fishing, or both?

3] What sort of freshwater fish does 'one go after' when using an Avon rod?

4] What would be an ideal length for an Avon rod. What about the recommended reel, line breaking strain etc?

5] Where did the name 'Avon' rod originate? Obviously the River Avon has got something to do with it, but there must be more to the naming/title than that? Does anyone know anything more?

6] Can an Avon rod be used (a) on commericials, (b) or rivers, or (c) both?

7] Is an Avon rod the same, or similar to, a 'quiver tip' rod.

Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

As ever, regards'

He who needs to know.

 

[Keith M]

Hi WillyJohn,

This thread should answer some of your questions about an Avon rod.

 

[Fred Blake]

General purpose rod suitable for all sorts of coarse fishing, from float fishing, legering, feeder, light carp and pike, even spinning. Perfect rod for tench, bream, barbel, chub, and perch, either with the normal top joint (the avon top) or a second tip fitted with built-in quivertip.

The increasingly common confusion about what rod is suited to what method or species is all down to the fact that rods these days have to be named after a species or method of fishing. I'm sure we've all encountered novices who express surprise when they see you using a carp rod for pike, or a barbel rod for tench. It's a rod for heavens' sake! It don't matter a jot what's written on the butt - it'll be either light, medium or heavy, or somewhere between, and you pick the rod to suit the job in hand. The old avon rod doesn't seem to fit in anywhere in the modern, specific world in which we fish, so newcomers to the sprt can't work out what it's for - unless it be fishing the avon! Time we did something about this I think - let's go back to the days when you had a float rod, an avon rod and a couple of big-fish rods - and that was enough.

 

[jimmy crackedcorn]

My Avon rod hasnt seen a river - yet - but has seen exstensive margin work, stand-in pellet waggler work, a bit of surface fishing work and some method feeder work and done it all rather well.

 

[matt1960]

My feeling is, that an avon rod would have a test curve of around 1lb, would generally be a through action, about 10-11' and light enough for trotting work.
I dont think the original meaning has anything to do with quiver sections for ledgering.

But manufacturers over the last years have produced rods that have much higher test curves than 1lb and still called them 'avon'.
Most are now multipurpose rods with far heavier actions than would be ideal for trotting work, and I guess most people will use them for heavier ledgering work.

Matt

 

[cam clearie]

my view is it is a rod which bends right the way through to the butt .very through action and yes i would say in its classic form about eleven foot and just a tad over 1lb test curve .examples would be the harrison 1lb 4oz test curve avon ..lovely rod .what i do not understand is why rod makers think they can put avon type top sections on quiver tip bottom sections and say it has an avon top as well as a quiver top ..the rods are so disimilar ...quiver tip rods due to having very fine tips need a steely bottom section which does not work with an avon top ...an example is the fox kevlar barbel rod with a 1lb 8 oz quiver top section a 1lb 4oz avon section and a 1lb 12oz avon section ...the rod doesnt know what it is and i must say it is not good so i now use it for bass fishing and have softend the heavy tip and steely bottom considerably much more through action now ..

 

[S-Kippy]

I wonder if "Avon" has simply become a convenient label for a rod that doesn't sit comfortably in any other category ie match,power match,feeder,carp etc ? If you think about it an "Avon" rod nowadays is basically a bit of an allrounder that you can use for both float & lead work for bigger than normal fish.

It bears little real resemblance to the Avon rods of my youth which were 10-11 foot rods as soft as butter used for trotting or legering rivers. How times change

Personally I think a lot of rods designed for commercial carp are truer to the Avon action than modern Avon rods. Whats a pellet waggler if not a light avon rod ?

 

[peter crabtree]

pellet waggler is a float skippy..............

 

[The Monk]

Ah the old Avons, it sort of methamorphaised into a feeder rod over the years, still have a pair of B and W glass Avons somewhere in the attic, 1.4 TC over 11 ft through action from memory, great for the old chub and barbel back in the day and not bad for a big of wildie and big perch fishing either

 

[Fred Blake]

It is certainly true that Avon rods have got more powerful over the years. Forty years ago an avon rod had a progressive through action, a test curve of between 1lb and 1.25lb and was standard issue for barbel, tench, bream, chub and small carp. Drennan now make a dedicated bream/tench rod (and a fine rod it is too, for light carp fishing) which has a test curve of 1.75lb and a fairly middle-to-tip action. This sort of rod bridges the gap between true avon rods and outright carp rods, which have also got heavier over the years, to the point where a modern barbel rod is effectively a carp rod from from 1985.

How is the novice to know that one of those bream/tench rods can also be used for barbel, or light carp fishing? Of course it can - same as any other rod of similar power, regardless of the name on the butt. Trouble is, he's more likely to go out and buy a specialist barbel rod for barbel, and a specialist carp rod for carp, and so on. Fine if you like collecting tackle (and lucrative for the tackle firms) but completely unnecessary.

I was selling a Drennan Medium Feeder rod at a tackle fair last year and I had a chap ask me if it would be OK to leger with it! I was tempted to say no, you'd need a leger rod for that, but I didn't. At least with the old style avon rod you knew where you were.

I do not believe any rod having a test curve over 1.25lb should really be called an avon rod; call it a stepped-up avon if you like, or better still a big-fish specialist rod. You can specialise it as a barbel rod, or tench rod or whatever if you really must, but not an avon.

Of course, the modern angler's approach has changed, and tackle has changed with it. I read on a forum somewhere only the other day that a 1.25lb rod would be OK for light chub fishing, but for the big fish you'd need a 1.75lb test rod! Good grief - F.W.K Wallis must be spinning in his grave. But there we are; gone are the days when we fished with float tackle, freeline or light leger. Nowadays it's all about method feeders, pva bags and long range legering, so the rods have got bigger and more muscular to match their owners.

Thankfully there's still a place for the proper avon rod in any thinking anglers armoury.

 

[The Sogster]

General purpose rod suitable for all sorts of coarse fishing, from float fishing, legering, feeder, light carp and pike, even spinning. Perfect rod for tench, bream, barbel, chub, and perch, either with the normal top joint (the avon top) or a second tip fitted with built-in quivertip.

The increasingly common confusion about what rod is suited to what method or species is all down to the fact that rods these days have to be named after a species or method of fishing. I'm sure we've all encountered novices who express surprise when they see you using a carp rod for pike, or a barbel rod for tench. It's a rod for heavens' sake! It don't matter a jot what's written on the butt - it'll be either light, medium or heavy, or somewhere between, and you pick the rod to suit the job in hand. The old avon rod doesn't seem to fit in anywhere in the modern, specific world in which we fish, so newcomers to the sprt can't work out what it's for - unless it be fishing the avon! Time we did something about this I think - let's go back to the days when you had a float rod, an avon rod and a couple of big-fish rods - and that was enough.

Bang on!

I agree too much attention is given to what's wriiten on the blank or in the magazines.

i have been an angler for over 30 years (a short time to some on here) and still first and foremost assess the needs of the water/ method before the rod.
If it takes a heavier rod than my 'normal' feeder rod then either the avon/ barbel/ heavy feeder will do the job. I.E use a heavier tip or get the 'carp' rod out, my carp rods by the way are a couple of old shakespeare zenith pike rods
Similarly if I wanted to fish the pellet waggler, I wouldn't buy a rod 'specially for it. I would probably use my avon rod.

Having said that, for me an avon rod should have a test curve of 1lb to 1.25lb in a progressive action through to the butt with a solid top and an interchangeable quiver section.

I think the original John Wilson Avon Quiver probably got it right from everything I've seen. Never owned one, always fancied one. Probably good marketing or an exceptional rod, I believe it has sold more than any other.

 

[S-Kippy]

pellet waggler is a float skippy..............

Yes thank you Simon. You know what I mean.

 

[matt1960]

Having said that, for me an avon rod should have a test curve of 1lb to 1.25lb in a progressive action through to the butt with a solid top and an interchangeable quiver section.

I think the original John Wilson Avon Quiver probably got it right from everything I've seen. Never owned one, always fancied one. Probably good marketing or an exceptional rod, I believe it has sold more than any other.

I did own an original JW Avon Quiver, but I thought it was a very poor float rod. Heavy and unweildy. It was ok as a quiver rod though.

IMO the Avon rod should be a float rod first and foremost and 1 1/4lb rods generally do not do this job anywhere near as well as 1lb test curve rods. They are often much heavier.
I personally believe that people are better off getting a dedicated float rod and a seperate feeder/quiver tip rod, rather than one that does neither particularly well or does one of these things well and not the other.

I do however own a Normark Bob James light Avon/quiver of 1lb test curve which is way better than the JW, and I think the blank was a Harrison one.

Matt

 

[dezza]

The original "Avon" rod was most likely the Wallis Wizard, designed by FWK Wallis and also called the "Wallis Avon". It was made initially by Allcocks, it was 11 feet long in 3 pieces. A number of later models were 12 feet long. It had a whole tonkin cane butt with a split cane middle and top joint.

Wallis designed the rod as an all-round tool for long trotting on the Hampshire Avon where anything from roach to chub and barbel could be expected.

Of course in later years, Avon rods tended to mean a through action rod of about 12 feet long with a standard top joint and a top joint designed to take quiver tips. The interesting thing about the modern development of Avon rods is that they are mainly used for legering. The first Avon rod was devised as a float fishing tool.

 

[S-Kippy]

I'm firmly with Matt on this one. Rods marketed as "Avon" rods nowadays are often twin tips and in my experience excellent quiver rods and rubbish float rods. Far better to invest in a "proper" float rod than buy a twin tip thinking that it will make a good float rod. It wont.

Crikey...when I was a boy virtually every carp rod available was 11ft long with a tc of 1.5lb.A lot of people would now class that as barely beefy enough for chub.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

There seems to be some confusion here between an Avon rod and an Avon/Quiver rod. The later was the invention of John Wilson it would appear. Marketed by Masterline it was the most popular rod in the country for many years and copied by many other makers.




FWK Wallis did not design the Wallis Wizard, Ron. That was an Allcocks rod. He designed the FKW Wallis Avon and the FWK Wallis Allround rod for Hardy. It had always been supposed that Allcocks copied the Hardy rod, but some evidence discovered recently suggests that it is possible the Allcocks rod pre-dates the Hardy.

The Hardy FWK Wallis Avon, is the first rod I am aware of to bear Avon in the name. Richard Walker then produced a stepped DOWN version of his Mark1V called the Avon and this rod was copied by many other makers, as had been the Hardy rod before it.

Nowadays I would expect an Avon rod to be from 11 to 13 feet, a stepped -up float rod of between 1 and 1 1/4 lb. test curve. Walker's rod, of course, was only 10 feet, though other maker's copies of it are now sometimes 11 feet.

 

[dezza]

I owned 3 split cane Mk IV Avons in my life. the first two were made from kits supplied by JB Walker (no relation to RW) of Hythe in Kent. The other one was a B James job which cost me a fortune in those days. When I eventually consigned it to the skip (it broke) it also had a set that looked like a drinking heron.

Unfortunately I am not old enough to remember exactly who designed the first Avon Rod. The Wallis Avon stands out in my mind as does the fact that I saw a few of them with the Allcocks badge. But it was a long time ago.

One rod I remember from that time was the Kennet Perfection. This was a 11 1/2 foot rod in split cane with a removable 24 inch butt piece. It was designed by Walker I believe as a more practical "Avon" type rod. I lost no time and bought one. That rod was used to catch everything from roach to Irish tench and bream.

I gave it away when I emigrated.

 

[Fred Blake]

Before Walker devised the MkIV Avon, the Wallis Wizard and Wallis Avon rods were mostly used for float fishing. In fact, most coarse fishing rods (or bottom rods as they were known) were intended to be used for float fishing, as legering was at the time an unpopular method, and generally only carried out with a short stiff rod when conditions did not favour float fishing. I don't think the avon rod post Walker was ever meant as an outright float rod, though it could be used to floatfish for bigger fish with heavier lines when the ordinary float rod was not powerful enough. The MkIV avon as Walker designed it was mainly used for legering and freelining, though Walker himself often used it to spin for pike or trout.

The avon rod therefore has had two different incarnations; the early type in three pieces intended for trotting and general bottom fishing for all coarse fish (including carp, when it was rare to find one over ten pounds) and the post-Walker two-piece design which was more leger-orientated. As others have already pointed out, no one rod will do it all, but if you favoured float fishing over legering, something like the old Wallis Wizard would be your choice, whereas the specimen hunter who liked to leger would go for the MkIV Avon. I have examples of both, and still use them when the mood takes me.

Modern equivalents tend to be more closely related to the Walker MkIV avon than the Wallis type. It's fairly easy to go out and buy an eleven or twelve foot two piece avon rod with a test curve of 1.25lb, and such a rod will do anything from laying on, stret pegging or lift float fishing for tench, carp and barbel to legering for bream, chub, barbel and so on, via freelining, floater fishing and perhaps a spot of livebaiting for perch or even small pike thrown in. They don't trot a float as well as a longer, tippier rod, though they'll do it at a pinch.

I'm not sure there are any rods around in the UK today that really capture the old Wallis style of rod, with its characteristic slow, all-through action. In the US and Canada they know all about making such rods from carbon salmon blanks, and routinely use them to bait fish for steelhead with centrepin reels.

Someone mentioned the John Wilson Avon/Quiver rod - I bought one when they first came out in 1987, and I still have one now. The original format of two equal sections with two tips, one avon and one quiver, was by far the best; the ones you get now are vastly inferior, but fashion and manufacturing economy have combined unfavourably. They were never made to the highest standards, but the early ones were built on pretty good blanks and could easily be upgraded if desired. The one I have now must have slipped through the quality control people, as it's a belter. I don't use it for proper float fishing, but for tench and carp in the margins with a centrepin it's superb.

 

[matt1960]

Yes, I would agree with whats being said. And I will continue by saying that a true 'avon' rod is a float fishing rod, possibly no more than 1lb tc and maybe even less. The rod must bend through to its butt, and its this that absorbs the lunges of bigger fish.
I believe a 1lb tc rod can land almost anything, if the design is right. Did Yates land his 51lb carp on one? I cant remember.

The reason I did not like th JW, is purely because as a float rod it was not very good. In this sense, in my mind it was a poor 'avon' rod. As a quiver it was good.
But times have moved on, and now they can call a 1 3/4lb tc rod an avon. To my mind its not, but I accept the change reluctantly. Its a bit like calling a golf metal driver a 'wood'.
Matt

 

[Fred Blake]

Yes, I would agree with whats being said. And I will continue by saying that a true 'avon' rod is a float fishing rod, possibly no more than 1lb tc and maybe even less. The rod must bend through to its butt, and its this that absorbs the lunges of bigger fish.
I believe a 1lb tc rod can land almost anything, if the design is right. Did Yates land his 51lb carp on one? I cant remember.

The reason I did not like th JW, is purely because as a float rod it was not very good. In this sense, in my mind it was a poor 'avon' rod. As a quiver it was good.
But times have moved on, and now they can call a 1 3/4lb tc rod an avon. To my mind its not, but I accept the change reluctantly. Its a bit like calling a golf metal driver a 'wood'.
Matt

Yes - Chris Yates caught the record carp on a MkIV Avon, built by Walker himself. That was the last time the Bishop (as it was known by Yates; the rest of the syndicate called it the 'old 38') was caught; oddly enough, when it was first caught in 1959 by Eddie Price, he also used a MkIV Avon. On that occasion it weighed 40lb 8oz.

It's certainly true that a 1lb test rod can land very big fish, provided the fish is always pulling away from the angler. Where such a light rod falls down is when a big fish is under the rod tip; the lack of 'poke' makes it very difficult to control.

The Wilson Avon is not a float rod as such, so cannot be expected to perform as well as a proper float rod when fishing a stick float, waggler etc. However, it is very useful for such techniques as stret pegging, laying on or lift-method, when used to catch biggish fish on lines heavier than 6lb. That's where its versatility comes in.