Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 55
  1. #1

    Default Question for all you floatfishers...

    Something I have mulled about for a while whilst float fishing the other day.

    It seems the general advice is to shot a float right down so just the very tip is showing above the surface to increase sensitivity. However I was wondering if I have say a float like say a peacock waggler so basically a float that has about the same diameter from tip to base does this really make much difference at all ?

    If I have say 3 inches of float sticking out above the surface or just say 2mm showing how is this going to help sensitivity or make a difference to a taking fish ?

    I accept surface tension may make a small difference but if a fish pulls the float down will it really notice any difference is there is 3inches or 2mm of the floats tip showing above the surface?

  2. #2

    Default

    Ok if you have confident fish that will take a float away without worry, The main object of setting a float down to almost nothing , is when the fish are so shy they hardly move the bait. So in fact if you only have an 8th of an inch showing you will see it move more clearly than if you have 3 inches. I think if your waggler fishing and the bites get that sensative then swap to an insert waggler and shot it down. Just a matter of balancing between sight and sensativity mainly.Thats why you will always catch more on the pole because you can fish so very light. I,m not a great waggler angler so cant offer anything else ,but thats just my view anyway. tight lines mate. But having said all that there are other things that come into play such as shot patterns and the like. The droper shot near the hook can make all the difference betweeen getting a bite and not , water conditions , and many more its not just about the float hight is what i,m trying to say . Experience goe,s a hell of a long way. tight lines.
    Last edited by chubberbob; 27-10-2010 at 07:02.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    metroland.....
    Posts
    7,516

    Default

    too much float above the surface will cause resistance which fish will feel when they pick up your bait, dotting it down also helps you see lift bites.........

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Rotherham South Yorkshire
    Posts
    32,331
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chubberbob View Post
    Thats why you will always catch more on the pole because you can fish so very light.
    There is a lot of truth in this and it has to do with the inertia of the float.

    A large waggler weighted with the amount of shot needed to dot the float right down will present more inertia to a shy biting fish than a light pole float with up to 1 1/2 inches of the "bristle" showing above the water. Of course a pole rig is light because you don't have to cast it.

    I have done a great deal of waggler fishing in my life on both still and running water and have often seen the tip of the float disappear and then return back to the surface of the water as the fish spits the bait out.

  5. #5

    Default

    It's simples!

    If you have for example 5mm of float tip showing and a fish pulls the float 6mm you will notice the bight because the float disappears from view.

    However if you have say 50mm of float showing and a fish moves the float 6mm then you may not spot the movement unless the float is under your rod tip and/or you have good eye sight.
    PaSC Junior Development Officer ><((((°>

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    Stoke on Trent
    Posts
    10,414
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default

    Philip, the answer to your float problem lies with Archimedes Principle that states:

    An object immersed in water is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object. The weight of the displaced fluid can be found mathematically. The fluid displaced has a weight W = mg. The mass can now be expressed in terms of the density and its volume, m = pV. Hence, W = pVg.

    It is important to note that the buoyant force does not depend on the weight or shape of the submerged object, only on the weight of the displaced fluid. Archimedes Principle applies to objects of all densities. If the density of the object is greater than that of the fluid, the object will sink. If the density of the object is equal to that of the fluid, the object will neither sink or float. If the density of the object is less than that of the fluid, the object will float.

    Let's put it this way, using two extremes. If you have a large amount of float above the surface that requires an SSG shot to sink it, the fish needs to pull with a force equivalent to an SSG shot to sink it.

    If you have a tiny tip of float above the surface that requires only a dust shot to sink it, then the fish needs only to pull with a force equivalent to a dust shot.

    Therefore the least volume of float above surface is more sensitive than a large volume of float above surface. That volume may be a long thin antenna or a short stump of a thicker float, but if the volume of water displaced is the same then they have the same sensitivity, as Archimedes states.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Subtropical Buckinghamshire
    Posts
    24,571
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I'm a bit afraid of giving my views on this in case Mr Aristotle's friend, Mr Winkle, comes on and gives me a blasting again. All I said last time was (TTE) that a denser and therefore heavier tip would be more sensitive than a lighter and more bouyant tip, given the same diameters.

    However, Archimedes' mate was right in that it's all to do with the amount of water the remaining part of the float displaces. So a 2mm x 6mm Ø tip will be easier to take under than a 50mm x 6mm Ø tip and therefore more sensitive.

    However, given that it's the same amount of float tip that is showing, say 25mm (1"), then the bouyancy of the material does come into play, IMO (and don't believe the trick he showed with the nail - that has to go in the bunko booth). The more of a very bouyant tip that goes under the more it wants to get back up again thus creating more resistance, whereas a denser and less bouyant tip will not create as much resistance to being sunk.

    A bit like pushing a bucket under water with a couple of bricks in it as opposite to a bucket of the same size filled with two brick-sized polystyrene blocks glued in it.They both displace the same amount of water.

    If that makes any sense? Not that Aristotle's mate would agree.

    EDIT: Hahahahah! Sorry Graham. I was typing mine before yours went up. However, I think you are saying the same, but with the scientific formula, aren't you?

    Further edit: Mind you, I gave up fishing with buckets, but they've returned now as "Spodcopters" it seems.
    Last edited by Jeff Woodhouse; 27-10-2010 at 09:36.
    "I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!" - Theodore Roosevelt

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    289

    Default

    There are three variables to consider. Number one is the amount of unshotted float remaining above the surface; this can be determined by finding out how much shot is needed to just sink it out of sight. Obviously, one No 8 shot's worth of float will be easier to pull under than five SSG's worth.

    The second variable is inertia, and this is not so obvious. It also carries two sub-variables. The first is overall mass. A five SSG float (whatever shape) shotted so only one No 8's worth of float is left showing will present a greater resistance to the fish than a 2 No 8 float shotted with 1 No 8. The extra volume of the larger float creates resistance below water, and this is an entirely different resistance to that presented by remaining buoyancy.

    The second sub-variable is shape-related. Two floats, both taking the same total shot loading, and both shotted to leave the same amount unshotted, might appear to be equally sensitive. However, if one is long and thin, and the other spherical, the thin one will create less resistance in water.

    The upshot of all this is as follows: leave only as much float showing as you need to be able to see it, or to hold it up against undertow, drag, current or the effect of a large hookbait. Choose the float size according to casting range and wind speed/direction and shoose the shape according to current speed/turbulence.

    Here's two extremes as examples; suppose you're fishing a flat calm pond or lake for roach with maggots or casters. The ideal float is one that presents the minimum resistance to a biting fish, so you'd choose a thin one, as small as casting range allowed, and shot it to leave the least amount showing as long as you could see it. Example two; fast, turbulent, deep river; barbel and chub, luncheon meat or breadflake on size 8 hook as bait. You need a larger float to take more shot to get the bait down, and you need to leave a bit more showing to stop the bait or subsurface currents pulling it under, and to be able to see it at the end of the trot.

    A bodied avon or chubber type taking (say) 4SSG would be suitable; a long thin waggler or stick type float fixed both ends and taking the same shot loading would not, even though it would be more sensitive (inertia rule 2b) as the extra sensitivity would work against you.

    One trick worth knowing on lakes; if you use a thin-stemmed antenna float and over shot it so it only just sinks, then fish it overdepth with the bottom shot resting on the lake bed, you can leave more float stem showing without increasing buoyancy-derived resistance. This can be useful when you need to 'read' a bite and time the strike; a float that is there one second and gone the next (as is the case with a dotted-down float) doesn't allow you to determine whether the fish is still holding the bait.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    Stoke on Trent
    Posts
    10,414
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default

    I think we're all more or less saying the same thing, which is:

    Whatever force is needed to overcome the amount of buoyancy left in the float (which is the bit above surface) is the amount of force needed to pull it under.

    Ergo: the less buoyancy remaining above surface the more sensitive the float.

    Once that float disappears the rest of the equation becomes academic as the angler will have tried to set the hook.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Marsden View Post
    I think we're all more or less saying the same thing, which is:

    Whatever force is needed to overcome the amount of buoyancy left in the float (which is the bit above surface) is the amount of force needed to pull it under.

    Ergo: the less buoyancy remaining above surface the more sensitive the float.

    Once that float disappears the rest of the equation becomes academic as the angler will have tried to set the hook.
    And therein lies the next problem! If the float's fixed to the line, you have to shift it before you can move the hook, and a big sunk float creates more resistance than a small one. The deeper the swim and the further out you are fishing, the worse the problem as the angle between rod-float and float-hook has to be overcome. In anything over eight feet deep it's worth fishing a slider, simply to take the float's mass out of the equation.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •