big fish are easy, small fish are harder.

[flightliner]

Thirty years ago I would have scoffed at that statement, now I think it's true. It,s far far easier to put a specimen sized fish on the bank than it is to put a sizable net of small to medium fish together, particularly on a river.It,s certianly more skillfull.-- Well?

 

[richiekelly]

thats what i tell my lad when he is catching bigger fish than me but he wont belive me.

 

[Andrew Macfarlane]

Depends on the venue. I know plenty of places where either statement is accurate.

 

[dezza]

Depends on the species and the circumstances.

Certainly it is a heck of a lot harder to catch a 1 lb roach than a double figure barbel, well certainly that is the case where I live.

As regards compiling a net of roach, what tends to happen is that you get a few big ones towards the end of the session, especially if after netting say 20 or 30 small to medium size roach, you stret peg, or lay on for the last hour or so. I have caught many Idle roach over 1lb using these tactics.

 

[flightliner]

The statement is a generalisation, sure, certain waters are "easy" for big or small fish alike but If I think back thirty years I could go to my oft frequented rivers and catch good bags of small to medium sized roach ,chub,bream etx, but for me to catch a big fish of most species the task was far harder and it certianly involved miles of travelling-and "most species" was not as big a list as it is today. These days I can target big Barbel, huge carp, double figure bream,Tench,chub,Pike etx within a fifteen minute drive of where I live if I so choose to do. The rivers that hold these fish now were so polluted years ago that if you fell in you simply dissolved. But to find/take a big bag of smaller fish today is so much more difficult.The upshot seems to be that any angler one sees by a river is invariably "specimen hunting" for a barbel or some other species.

 

[The bad one]

Is that not a somewhat a simplistic statement?. If all that's in the water are big fish then catching small fish is not on the cards. Likewise if only small fish are in it, the reverse is true. It doesn't make either of them hard or easy to catch, it means they are not present. Therefore the obvious conclusion is you wouldn't catch them by their absence.

Many waters are so degraded for many reasons, which have been discussed on here at length, that all that's left are large old fish that have rarely if ever spawned successfully to make the fishery a sustainable one.

Sustainable fisheries, accepting the cyclical movement of species over a given time period, would have almost a full gambit of fish through size and age ranges.

Therefore in such sustainable waters, catching the smaller one's by a competent angler would be easier than the larger fish, by sheer numbers present.

 

[chubby48]

fish

i think anybody would rather av big fish rather than smaller----who are u trying to kid

 

[alan whittington]

i think anybody would rather av big fish rather than smaller----who are u trying to kid

I agree Chubby,my mates seem to think that match anglers only want small fish,but even they are looking for the shortest route to a winning weight(i.e. bigger fish),thats why carp puddles are so popular,i think Phil's statement on 'cycles' on rivers(all waters really)is true and gives no grounding on whats good today,versus yesteryear,on the middle Thames gudgeon and ruffe to a lesser extent have re-appeared after being absent for many years,i cant remember when i last caught several gudgeon on the same day.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

I must be doing something wrong cos I catch plenty of small fish and very few biguns

 

[alan whittington]

I wish you could explain m'lud how i had been catching up to ten gudgeon on a 14mm pellet hair rigged to a 10 or 8 hook,it amazes me and they dont stop rattling until i reel em in(must be my sophisticated rig).

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

I wish you could explain m'lud how i had been catching up to ten gudgeon on a 14mm pellet hair rigged to a 10 or 8 hook,it amazes me and they dont stop rattling until i reel em in(must be my sophisticated rig).

Exactly - I've been trying for binung but got smalluns

 

[chav professor]

I think the issue is there are forces at work we are yet to understand about fish!! A lot of my fishing is carried out in gin clear water which gives a uniques insight into what is happening beneath the surface.

For example, when trotting maggots, the most eager fish from the shoal are caught - often the smaller ones. you may catch a few and then the swim goes dead. you could be mistaken into thinking the fish have diassapeared and moved downstream - i know i have! In visible water the scenario becomes clearer. The fish are still feeding, however, they check out the bait, realise something is fishy and then ignore it and start eating the maggots on the bottom of the river bed - there a safer bet. I'm assuming your presenting the bait well (I try!)

You can fine down a bit, and again a few bites will rewarded, then nothing. switch to feeding on the bottom, and again the presentation blows. I think what makes match anglers so skilled is that they almost read the water and have a mental picture of what is goin on so they adapt their presentation as a session progresses. Thats a lot of agro if you want to catch big fish - so chuck out a big bait and wait!!!

Back to the forces we don't understand. I am sure fish have an as yet not fully understood way of communicating danger to shoal members (and I 'aint talking telepathic mumbo jumbo here!). Its the same when using heavily flavoured baits! You may catch a few fish on that 'special bait' and think your onto something - but over the season, it becomes clear that the other fish don't want to embarass themselves! How can they know to avoid it? Especially when they havent had the pleasure of a bankside visit? Do other members of the 'fish comunity' behave in a way that illicits an 'avoid that sh*t, it 'ant worth bothering with' responce?

Is this why less flavoured baits like maggots, bread, unflavoured luncheon meat and cheese paste (I will also add halibut pellets in smaller sizes - less than 6mm for the same reasons as follows) continue to trip up the biggies? I wouldn't mind betting tonnes of the stuff is eaten by fish every day over a season. mostly as free offerings and therefore a degree of safety - though I'm sure they would prefer to exploit a safer more natural alternative if nature provides.

In my experiences, big fish can be rediculously easy - or conversely incredibally hard. It is all down to angling pressure and learnt experiences from their own or other fishes experiences I believe.

 

[Andrew Macfarlane]

Fish supposedly produce a panic or danger hormone (can't recall the name but I'm sure someone on AN would remember) that at certain concentration, puts the rest of the shoal off feeding and they become skittish round anything remotely unusual.

Perch are supposedly very aware of this hormone and that's why it's suggested that a keepnet is employed when targeting big perch, as fish returning to the safety of the shoal give off this hormone, which eventually kills off an established feeding pattern.

 

[Derek Gibson]

Would that be the oft quoted fear pheromone Andy ? :wh

 

[chav professor]

Fish supposedly produce a panic or danger hormone (can't recall the name but I'm sure someone on AN would remember) that at certain concentration, puts the rest of the shoal off feeding and they become skittish round anything remotely unusual.

Perch are supposedly very aware of this hormone and that's why it's suggested that a keepnet is employed when targeting big perch, as fish returning to the safety of the shoal give off this hormone, which eventually kills off an established feeding pattern.

Hormones, could be - but i often see a more specific responce to a particular bait or presentation. Hormones are not that specific.

 

[noknot]

OK then,

Try your luck on Wrasbury for a 40 lbs+ Carp if it is so easy, I bet the result will be a blank, even after three years, good luck!

 

[chav professor]

OK then,

Try your luck on Wrasbury for a 40 lbs+ Carp if it is so easy, I bet the result will be a blank, even after three years, good luck!

Gosh!! lifes too short for that................ i'd hope there was some smaller fish to alleviate the boredom. I can see why the Bivvie comes standard with a widescreen cinema system, carpet slippers and the impending divorce papers....:j

 

[flightliner]

i think anybody would rather av big fish rather than smaller----who are u trying to kid

Chubby,There are times (genuinly-- I kid you not)when I put aside my pursuit of bigger fish and take myself off to some running water simply to put a bag of silverfish together and lose myself in simply watching a float go downstream for a few hours-- a "goer" roach may be a half pound fish- hardly big by any measure but it more than satisfies my needs on the day. On other occasions I can target big fish and be pretty confident that sooner or later I will have what I want, be it a big barbel ,carp ,chub or whatever.Thirty years ago big fish were not so easily found, sure they were there but locations were very closely gaurded where today you simply have to look in most of the angling press or internet and take your pick of venues.Tactics tackle and methods have come along in leaps and bounds also, and, with long term sessions at the waterside so easy these days its an inevitability that catching big fish is much easier than it once was. Where the pursuit of say, a big bag of roach is - in my humble opinion a little harder. Tomorrow I,ll be about a mile from Rotherham town centre looking for anything that might be looking for a maggott!!

 

[alan whittington]

The only reason that the fish trip on maggies,casters,bread and small pellets is the particle theory imo,where the individual fish eats many individual baits before finding one with a hook,cheese i dont rate within that remit and to be honest,havnt seen it being as effective as say bread(it still applies if you just fish with the bit on the hook,as fish are finding bread very regularly),as it seems to fail more often,that said,if it works for you on your waters,great,ive caught plenty over the years on it,but only a fraction that ive had on bread and other baits.

 

[Andrew Macfarlane]

Would that be the oft quoted fear pheromone Andy ? :wh

I don't know mate. It could be one and the same or something entirely different.

I haven't heard of either being quoted often but when it was spoken of some time ago on AN, there was a fair amount of evidence suggesting there was something in it.

In my experience of specimen perch fishing, there does seem to be a very sudden change of behaviour, often visually, when fish are returned to go back to the shoal.