Two New Records

[Jim Gibbinson]

Les, I don't know how old "She" is. Must be near the end of her life, though. It should have been retired to some quiet, non-fished farm pool years ago.

Amazingly, there are School Pool anglers who deliberately target this poor old fish.

I think that's sad (and I use the word "sad" in both its correct sense, and its modern vernacular sense).

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay]

By the way Christian, your attutude is to be admired. You are the future of our great sport.

Yes Jim you are spot on as usual.

 

[Les Clark]

Jim ,I must agree ,where is the "glory" in catching the old girl ,i say glory becouse for what other reason would these people set their target at her for ?
It`s not as if we are short of carp around here ,but i suppose its all down to money and that 15 minutes of fame ,sad.

 

[mark williams 4]

I think Wooly might have gottoen hold of the wrong end of the rod. I don't think any of us were saying targeting well-known fish was inherently bad, just inherently boring!

The problem with it is two-fold. In the first place it eliminates the mystery, since you know for a certain fact the life history of the one fish you are trying to catch. Thus it does away with the donkeywork (which for me is the fun) of walking round every blob of blue on the Landranger map, sussing whether it's poachable/legally fishable, climbing trees to see fish, talking to other anglers about what they've caught in it.

The second reason relates to this; joining the circuses means you aren't actually thinking about a vital element of your fishing; the theory. All the detective work which results in 'new' fish being found is done by creative, intelligent anglers.

So everyone else is really riding on the shoulders of these giants. Nothing wrong with letting other people spot potential then using superior skills to fully realise that potential, but nothing beats following up some 'noddy's' catch in AT/AM with a visit to the water and showing what's REALLY there to be caught.

Round 'ere, there are hundreds of gravel pits and miles of river and drain. I've just come back from a bike ride round about 5 miles of bank. I spotted five anglers. It's Sunday. The amount of fishing effort currently going into 'wild' waters is so minimal, nobody can claim we have any idea of what's around to be caught.

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

Agreed, Mark. It makes me smile when anglers complain that there are no unknown, uncaught fish to be had. Like Mark, I could take them to stillwaters, rivers and drains that hardly see an angler from one week to the next. I could take them, but I won't! Mind you, most wouldn't be interested anyway because of the lack of obvious swims - that and the fact that in carp terms the waters haven't "done firties". Which reminds me - when did waters stop producing fish and start "doing" them?

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay]

And there are vast stretches of the fens for example that never see an angler in years.

I spend quite a bit of my time in the fens and I can assure you that this is true.

And Jim, I do get fed up with many anglers, especially those in the Sarff, who rabbit on about "wevver it's dan a firty". Or whatever else it's supposed to have done - (sorry dan).

Where is the pioneering sprit today?

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

This season I've fished for Tench and Perch on Wilstone Reservoir at Tring and Eels on a Colne valley pit. The Tench and Perch would have been born in the water whereas the Eels would of course have been born in the Sargasso Sea. All had lived on a diet almost entirely comprised of natural food and the vast majority had not been caught before.

When I fished Wilstone there were ususally no other anglers. Anglers have become lazy and these days most choose to fish easier waters.

Whilst I enjoy having 111 acres to myself the trend itself is worrying. These days more and more waters are being managed to cater for the increasing lazy anglers.

On Friday I was reading the website of an angling club that has this year taken over the pit from which I caught my first fish (a roach)in 1975. This pit has since become famous as the home of the LAA Leather a 40lb+ carp.

The smallest of the four pits at the venue produced my first Tench in 1978. Its a very shallow silty water and has always been very weedy and overgrown. That made it very difficult to fish and as a consequence I often fished the water alone as a boy.

The lake Roach, Rudd, Perch, Cruicians and tench as well as a small head of very pretty dark bronze commons and mirrors up to about 25lb. The previous club removed virtually all of these a few years ago and put them in the lake with the LAA Leather. They cited that the lake was becoming increasing silty. The locals reakoned that the real reason was that they were interested in putting the fish into a lake that was far easirer to fish so as to increase the popularity of the fishery.

I learned from the website that the move had been a disaster and that all the fish that were moved had sadly died within a year.

The reason for relocating fish seems to carry significant weight in the carp angling world. Two Tone and Benson were both well into double figures before they arrived in their current homes. Yet the two fish are viewed very differently by the carp world just because of the reasons for their relocation.

Regardless of why Two Tone ended up in its current home I've never been interested in fishing for it. It's obviously an amazing fish and I'd love to see it in the flesh but I just wouldn't get anything from catching it.

I assume the easy Roach waters Ron is referring to are the rather well known commercial waters. The only really easy big Roach water I've ever fished was rather further north in Herefordshire and is these days leased by Des Taylor.

The Avon these days must have become considerably harder. When I first fished the Avon for Roach on July 2nd 1992 for a few hours in the middle of a blazing hot day I caught roach up to 2lb 2oz.

 

[Wooly]

Perhaps my choice of words was a bit unfair/harsh throughout this thread - if I've offended anyone I'm sorry. I do however feel that there is often an over reaction to repeat captures of some fish. More often than not they are only noticed as repeat catures because they are such famous fish. As an example, one of the contributors on this thread wrote an earlier thread about a PB barbel - was this a repeat capture?
If believed not, how can he be sure no one had ever caught it before? It may have been caught more times than the other fish mentioned on this thread. It was obvious from the thread that the angler was well pleased with the catch. Was it any less of an achievemnt? Was it boring? Judging by the reaction of everyone on that thread they were all pleased for him, as was I. If it was a repeat capture should they have been bored not pleased? Everyone fishes for their own personal reasons. If we all fished for the same reason and derived pleasure only from 1 method of fishing some waters would be so overcrowded as to be ruined. Enjoy the fact that some waters are hardly fished giving you more choice, in a few years perhaps things will change and that may not be the case.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Well said Wooly; a good example would be the big chub I've had from Throop this summer. They can be hard to catch though not always, but ARE definitely repeat captures, yet have given me immense pleasure. Whereas the two 10lb fish allegedly turned up by the EA last year on the hardly fished middle reaches remain as yet uncaught. (think I might have spotted one of them back in June - unbelievable size!)

 

[Frothey]

"Which reminds me - when did waters stop producing fish and start "doing" them?"

when everyone started buying them in, rather than letting nature "produce" them?

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

The brother of my mate's french girlfriend has trecked alone across the polar ice cap from Canada to the North pole.

Matt's girlfriend has been there too she flew there with her brother's wife to pick him up.

How you do something can add greatly to the sense of achievement.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay]

Andy,

For a very short period I found a gravel pit in Oxon that produced for me several 2lb roach.

I was tench fishing at the time so I did not take these captures too seriously. When I went back more suitably equipped for roach fishing, all I caught was roach/rudd hybrids.

It's life I suppose.

 

[paul williams 2]

Andy....i know that Hereford roach water too!.......some fish are born to be famous!

I was talking to a Lugg barbel angler from Hereford a week or two ago............he missed his easy roach water lots and lots, he mentioned Des!

 

[dhigg001]

How can you tell if a barbel has been caught before? According to Matt Hayes look at the fold of skin just inside it's mouth that will give the game away.

Personally the stretch of upper Trent I fish I rarely see any other anglers, I have had numerous barbel up to 13 and as far as I can tell non, for me at anyway, are repeat captures. I love the solitude of the river, being on my own doesn't bother me. If I find a new area which produces, and believe me over the years I've found one or two, I keep it to myself.
It's part of the joy of fishing, exploring new areas and stretches of river.
Target known fish, no thanks.

 

[Andy S]

couldn't agree more Paul. I've been fishing the Upper Trent quite a bit this season and i've got a good 20 miles to go at. You can't beat pioneering, trying to find that pot of gold. An isolated, tranquil, feature rich swim full of quality fish.

I've even created an aerial map of the 20miles of Trent and had it printed on a huge sheet of glossy paper so I can hang it on my wall and see exactly were i've been to\not been to etc... SH*t am i turning into an anorak!!!

p.s. were exactly on the Trent did you say you'd been fishing LOL

 

[dhigg001]

Andy a big clue, for you somewhere between Ingleby and Shardlow, both banks around 20 miles of river.

Paul

 

[dhigg001]

Whilst we are on the subject of re-captured fish i.e. two tone and the traveller, I'd be interested to hear everyones thoughts (amicably of course)if re-captures should count as records. O.K. the fish may be bigger but at the end of the day it's the same fish.

Your thoughts please gentlemen.

 

[Andy S]

cheers Paul I know exactly were you mean

in fact thats the exact area my 20mile map covers. I've looked at a lot of the river but theirs still plenty left to go at.

 

[Frothey]

if the fishes curtain is lost when its caught, why did the fish matt caught still have it?

its a myth i'm afraid...

 

[dhigg001]

A lot to go at I've been fishing it since the 70's and haven't covered half of it.