Favourite Chub Hook

[bigchub]

I've recently been experimenting with different hook length materials for this style of fishing.

Good as Drennan Dacron is something that always troubled me was how visible it was. Even lying on the river bed it seemed to stick out like a sore thumb and if I could see it, the chub damn well could! What I needed to bring to my rig was still the strength that the Dacron contained but with much less visability. It also needed to be abrasion resistant as I would be fishing near snags as we nearly all do when we are chubbing.

To me the only answer was to go with a fluorocarbon hook length. With a light refraction index much closer to that of water that any braid ever could, it looked ideal. I found some heavy breaking strain (25lb) which I had lying around and placed it in bowl next to my standard dacron hook length of 10lb. Even with a fluorocarbon of that thickness and breaking strain I could hardly see it and all the time my nose was literally dipping in the water.
I've tried out a few different brands of fluorocarbon hook lengths over the years but never seemed to feel comfortable with them. I suppose their stiffness didn't instil much confidence in me and this one of the biggest drawbacks – the chub would feel it on their lips when they picked up the bait even if they couldn't see it.

To overcome this I made a combi-rig from a long length of fluorocarbon to a short length of Drennan Sink Braid to which the hook is tied knotless knot style. I joined them together using a 5-turn water knot which is then super-glued for extra security. The fluorocarbon is used for its anti-tangle and low visibility properties, while the soft braid allows the hook length to flex in the chubs mouth. Both of the materials are quite dense and therefore tend to lay unobtrusively along the bottom of the riverbed. My normal hook length has also changed from 9 inches up to 18 inches but if I'm fishing near overhanging trees then it will probably be anything from 4 inches up to a maximum of 6 inches to avoid hooking up in the tree.

 

[chav professor]

Chav,

You really are a XXXX at times - re Carpchubbing !!

I was going to explain the mechanic's of the rig, then I thought - No, let them get on with it.

Goodnight.

Bob

Oh dear Bob,

Humour malfunction? - Did I even miss spelt the intended bl''dy word - I meant carpchubbling

Chav

 

[Simon K]

Still reckon you could just as equally be missing fish because of the heavy lead, just as equally as a chub will turn and ignore a freelined offering because it senses something it doesn't like. Never a simple solution with specimen fish other than every method has its day - even bolt rigging as it seems!


Yes, you can apply that argument to any method with equal merit. Imo that negates it as an "argument" for any one method over any other.


It is a solution to a problem! On the rivers I fish, part of the problem is not the number of bites you may recieve in a day, rather, how can you be selective and avoid the smaller examples...... Different rivers, different problems, different solutions IMO.


I fish low-stocked venues with a good head of Big Fish. That's selective in itself. I don't need to consider building the swim up to get the bigger fish to bully the smaller ones out of the way.

QUOTE]

If I chubbed different rivers I'd probably pick the method most suited to that rivers stock profile.

 

[chav professor]

Thats why i think this is a good debate! I am interested to hear if bolt rigging with a heavy lead is sound and works.

Normally you start a thread as I did last year and well, you may just as well of suggested dressing up in drag spanking your @rse with a willow branch for even suggesting the idea.

I am happy to accept all methods on their merits - but it is almost hard wired to reject the idea-----strange really.

I even credit you with the intelligence that you would use the method most suited to a venue - un-like mr Bowler as it seems on that occasion

I am glad I livened up the debate How do you write stuff in blue????????

 

[Bob Hornegold]

I didn't know Bob was an advocate of this technique but a real exponent of it is SimonK, and after my last attempt at explaining it on here being berated so much, I'll leave it to Simon or Bob too describe the rig mechanics, if they wish...



QUOTE]


Well, that's only because I spend more time than Bob on my chubbing, but it was Bob's "innovation" I copied.

Short, stealth links with the last inch peeled. Hair coming off as the bend starts, short or long I don't think matters. Backlead. Put kettle on.
Simple.


Also, we've taken Bowler chubbing, but the silly ****** insisted on using a float*. He'll learn.


Edit: A smile just came to me as I remembered him calling us and saying "Ummmm............Where's the river gone?"
They'd been doing some engineering works upstream (unknown to us) and the river level dropped 3 feet while he was running his float through and trying to build up the swim. How we laughed...............



and carried on with our piking. :w

----

Simon,

You have certainly spent more time Bolt rigging for Big Chub than me

But I like to catch them Properly on the Tip, bread/cheese paste, bolt maggot feeder ( do you remember that rig (100x6lb Chub) in a season, even float fishing at night with a Starlight in the float, freelining crust or air injected worm, dapping a Grasshopper !!

Short Stiff rigs, straight of the lead, with a very special Pop-up and hook :w

We worked it out once, that you get a bite every 4/5 trips and this is in winter when the Crays were less active!

Bob

 

[richiekelly]

could it be that hair rigs work better for chub on some rivers more than others because of the way that the chub feed? i dont target chub very often but do catch them using a hair when fishing for barbel although i also get bangs on the rod that are not hooked that i presume are chub. if there is a lot of competition for bait in a swim is this more likley to make them more prone to be caught on a hair rigged bait? just interested to know what you regular chubbers think.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Blanker,

We all know Big Chub are tricky devils to hook, you have to do something different.

Because they have this annoying habit of trying baits at the front of their mouths ( Lip Biting ), before taking the bait into the mouth.

The trick with bolt rigging is to get the hook in the mouth ?

Sounds simple, but it's not.

I don't believe it's anything to do with the hooklink material , the weight (as long as it's heavy) or the length of the hair.

It's all down the the Hook or the way you present the hook.

Clever old Carp would pose the same problem, so clever "oldish" Carp anglers came up with a rig to over come this problem.

The Withy Rig.

Bob

 

[bigchub]

you may just as well of suggested dressing up in drag spanking your @rse with a willow branch

Lol! Now we know what you get up to when your not fishing!mg:

 

[Simon K]

could it be that hair rigs work better for chub on some rivers more than others because of the way that the chub feed? i dont target chub very often but do catch them using a hair when fishing for barbel although i also get bangs on the rod that are not hooked that i presume are chub. if there is a lot of competition for bait in a swim is this more likley to make them more prone to be caught on a hair rigged bait? just interested to know what you regular chubbers think.

I do most of my chubbing on the Lea complex (river, navigation, flood relief channel). However, I've also fished this style on the Kennet, Ouse and Ivel. It works just as well. In fact, it was while carping on the Ouse that I found how good the long hair was for chub.

Where competeing fish are likely, I'd opt for maggot feeder or bread, not hair-rigged.


On another occasion with Bowler while he was filming for Catching The Impossible, he tried touch-legering for some big chub. Hugh filmed the fish mouthing the bait and rejecting it while Martin said he didn't feel any indication on the line at all. So there appear to be no foolproof methods with Big Chub.

 

[bigchub]

I find it quite amusing that here we are discussing the ethics of bolt rigging and hair rigging for chub when, in reality it wasn't that long ago that the very same thing happened within the barbel world, and years before in the carp world.
Bolt rigging is nothing new and we can discuss the ethics and in's and out's until the end of time. People bolt feeder rig for roach on large reservoirs (and it works) but you don't get people belittling them do you? Maybe this could be a start of a new era in chub fishing or am I getting a little ahead of myself. Oh and don't forget those people that bolt rig for chub and catch hundreds every year but don't publicize their catch.

 

[chav professor]

----

Simon,

You have certainly spent more time Bolt rigging for Big Chub than me

But I like to catch them Properly on the Tip, bread/cheese paste, bolt maggot feeder ( do you remember that rig (100x6lb Chub) in a season, even float fishing at night with a Starlight in the float, freelining crust or air injected worm, dapping a Grasshopper !!

Short Stiff rigs, straight of the lead, with a very special Pop-up and hook :w

We worked it out once, that you get a bite every 4/5 trips and this is in winter when the Crays were less active!

Bob

Isn't this where the argument falls down - why state properly - shouldn't it be a method in its own right (carpchubling)? For the most part, I stand by my opinion that chub are a simple coarse fish and really require simple methods apllied well. But I think that the bolt style rig should be there, a tool that is there to be called upon alongside free-lining, dapping, trotting or quiver tipping.

The best carp anglers are the most restless type - always catapulting out biscuits if the chance of a surface take is on the cards, changing rigs, a float in the margins - adapting their approach..... any specimen type fishing requires adaptability.

I can think of an example where bolt rigging would be a useful tool - but after the 4th trip blanking - i would at least want to know if it was viable (it is - and it would be down to the efforts of Bigchub, yourself and simon preparing to state 'it works') - but that would have to be for an individual fish that was worth that amount of effort. But I would question this approach if others were catching the larger specimens with regularity on 'standard' techniques. But i can think of a fish that will not be tripped up on standard stuff! Its still there! so who knows -

But as you later state, chub are tricky devils - that is why we fish for them! But crucially and bringing back to the point of this thread - hook choice IS important.

I think the fear is that as a method it sounds too good to be true and this is where people may (?) think 'can't do that - bla bla'. I think in all reality, no single method answers all the questions all of the time - and we all have a favourite method that perhaps we slavishly spend time perfecting so it works more often than not for ourselves - and thats the beauty of fishing!

---------- Post added at 01:57 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------

I find it quite amusing that here we are discussing the ethics of bolt rigging and hair rigging for chub when, in reality it wasn't that long ago that the very same thing happened within the barbel world, and years before in the carp world.
Bolt rigging is nothing new and we can discuss the ethics and in's and out's until the end of time. People bolt feeder rig for roach on large reservoirs (and it works) but you don't get people belittling them do you? Maybe this could be a start of a new era in chub fishing or am I getting a little ahead of myself. Oh and don't forget those people that bolt rig for chub and catch hundreds every year but don't publicize their catch.

I think its wrong to question the ethics - I had have a gut feeling that if it was VERY effective - in fact EVERY body would be onto it, long before now and there would not be the perception of this nonsence and people would not be so sensitive or defensive to its use. [I think that this point is lost on a forum posting] Anglers are generally quite happy to use any method so long as it works, with only actually the smallest minority looking down their noses.

However sparsely populated a venue, 4 out 5 trips a blank? thats hard work - even if it could be in the back of your head it could be an 8lb'er. but that would be because I do not have the mentality of a specimen hunter other than I try to catch the biggest fish on any given venue - for some rivers I fish a 4lb'er is an achievement and a satisfying catch.

On your venue, the Chub are prolific so get it right, and it would have to be very sucessful to justify perfecting it. But that is why it is intersting to follow your progress. So don't look at it as ruffling feathers - I think an article on bolt rig and bollie tactics should be welcomed and would as last time generate a healthy debate.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Isn't this where the argument falls down - why state properly - shouldn't it be a method in its own right (carpchubling)? For the most part, I stand by my opinion that chub are a simple coarse fish and really require simple methods apllied well. But I think that the bolt style rig should be there, a tool that is there to be called upon alongside free-lining, dapping, trotting or quiver tipping.

The best carp anglers are the most restless type - always catapulting out biscuits if the chance of a surface take is on the cards, changing rigs, a float in the margins - adapting their approach..... any specimen type fishing requires adaptability.

I can think of an example where bolt rigging would be a useful tool - but after the 4th trip blanking - i would at least want to know if it was viable (it is - and it would be down to the efforts of Bigchub, yourself and simon preparing to state 'it works') - but that would have to be for an individual fish that was worth that amount of effort. But I would question this approach if others were catching the larger specimens with regularity on 'standard' techniques. But i can think of a fish that will not be tripped up on standard stuff! Its still there! so who knows -

But as you later state, chub are tricky devils - that is why we fish for them! But crucially and bringing back to the point of this thread - hook choice IS important.

I think the fear is that as a method it sounds too good to be true and this is where people may (?) think 'can't do that - bla bla'. I think in all reality, no single method answers all the questions all of the time - and we all have a favourite method that perhaps we slavishly spend time perfecting so it works more often than not for ourselves - and thats the beauty of fishing!

---------- Post added at 01:57 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------



I think its wrong to question the ethics - I had have a gut feeling that if it was VERY effective - in fact EVERY body would be onto it, long before now and there would not be the perception of this nonsence and people would not be so sensitive or defensive to its use. [I think that this point is lost on a forum posting] Anglers are generally quite happy to use any method so long as it works, with only actually the smallest minority looking down their noses.

However sparsely populated a venue, 4 out 5 trips a blank? thats hard work - even if it could be in the back of your head it could be an 8lb'er. but that would be because I do not have the mentality of a specimen hunter other than I try to catch the biggest fish on any given venue - for some rivers I fish a 4lb'er is an achievement and a satisfying catch.

On your venue, the Chub are prolific so get it right, and it would have to be very sucessful to justify perfecting it. But that is why it is intersting to follow your progress. So don't look at it as ruffling feathers - I think an article on bolt rig and bollie tactics should be welcomed and would as last time generate a healthy debate.

chav,

You reckon it's your type of Humour, I don't think so ?

If you look at my last post it was a wind up to Simon !!

There is No Properly !!

I was catching Chub on side hooked Boilies over 30 years ago, yes I know, I was one of those restless Carp Types, always trying New Things.

God Bless Sutton and Darenth !!

Bob

 

[cg74]

There is No Properly !!

Exactly right there Bob.

There are always going to be more and less effective ways too fish but ultimately we fish for our enjoyment, so we should choose a technique that best serves us for that purpose.

 

[chav professor]

Thank Christ for that!!! We all agree.

Well, in the round the houses, misunderstood, reading too much into each others post, wind-up, in-jokes?, humour?, defensive, prickly heat rash kind of bo!!oxy forum way!

Carpchubling...... I'm definately giving it a go - maybe even tonight!

 

[Simon K]

We're not discussing the ethics, but the efficacy.


I have an overly developed passion for trying to catch Big Chub and I am more than happy to do (almost) any number of blanks if I know there's an 8lb-er in the area, since that is my target.

I often take a "Jelly" rod along (light q'tip) and spend several hours on the tip with an appropriate bait if conditions are right and will put a bolt-rig out too. In most of the swims I fish there are at least two proven "catching" or patrol lines so two rods will certainly double my chances, whichever set-up I use.
The occasional nuisance double-figure barbel or 20-30lb carp keeps one amused while waiting.

And no, in 9 years and all conditions, I've never had a double hook-up.

if you look back through Bob's posts you'll see he gave a Big Clue on hooks. A principal that we apply not just to bolt-rig set-ups.

 

[steph mckenzie]

I'm Glad i asked now ......... i think <whistles>

 

[mark brailsford 2]

1LB TC avon, 4lb line straight through to a free lined lob on a drennan super specialist size 10, thats the proper way to catch a big chub!!!

mark

 

[bigchub]

I have an overly developed passion for trying to catch Big Chub and I am more than happy to do (almost) any number of blanks if I know there's an 8lb-er in the area, since that is my target.

I can concur entirely with this philosophy of yours. I myself have a severe case of "chub fever"!
Where I fish on the Waveney some parts are prolific and some are not. In the deeper slower areas the chub are certainly bigger than those in the more highly populated areas and its in these areas where the bolt-rig tactics can really pay off. Long waits between bites are common place. Sometimes you might only get one bite a day, sometimes none at all, but if you do get that bite then its usually a big chub.

 

[Simon K]

I should probably have mentioned somewhere along the line that fishing "traditional" baits on the Lea complex (worms/bread/cheesepaste etc) is made that much more difficult by the particular attention crayfish pay to these baits, especially after dark.

Boilies seem to last longer and this has added to their usefullness.

 

[chav professor]

Some of the match anglers used to use circle hooks for sea fishing and some used them for worm baits for Bass. the mechancic for this type of hook mean you didn't strike, rather tightened into the fish. would this be the same principle for freshwater? When Bass fishing, it is almost an instinct to strike - so I never dared to use them.

Obviously on a heavy lead, the chub would pick the bait up and probably apply the mechanics itself which is why a circle hook may make sense. Circle hooks look strange, but they do work - but never tryed them.

Am I on the right track here?