Rod License Enforcement
- Thread starter swindy
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flightliner
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Good question Swindy-- food for thought!
sam vimes
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Possibly because it would require a change in the law to be strictly enforceable.
Perhaps owners don't want the potential hassle. Could be feasible though, but if fishery owners (clubs, commercials, syndicates, landowners, councils etc) had to ensure that anglers on their fisheries had a licence or face some sanction, some would simply not allow fishing any more (councils in particular). If there was no sanction then many would simply not bother to check. Plenty of free waters will never see the landowner or representative. Even some day ticket waters are run on an honesty box system. Quite a few day tickets are bought through the local village shop, pub etc and the landowner/fishing rights holder rarely visit the bankside. Realistically, it's just not going to happen.
I know that some commercial day ticket waters do ask to see a licence before they allow you to fish. I also know some clubs insist on seeing a licence before allowing you to buy a season ticket. All power to them.
Perhaps owners don't want the potential hassle. Could be feasible though, but if fishery owners (clubs, commercials, syndicates, landowners, councils etc) had to ensure that anglers on their fisheries had a licence or face some sanction, some would simply not allow fishing any more (councils in particular). If there was no sanction then many would simply not bother to check. Plenty of free waters will never see the landowner or representative. Even some day ticket waters are run on an honesty box system. Quite a few day tickets are bought through the local village shop, pub etc and the landowner/fishing rights holder rarely visit the bankside. Realistically, it's just not going to happen.
I know that some commercial day ticket waters do ask to see a licence before they allow you to fish. I also know some clubs insist on seeing a licence before allowing you to buy a season ticket. All power to them.
itsfishingnotcatching
Well-known member
In full agreement Redfin, you can also tell the ones where the owner doesn't give a t*ss by the number of times you see him/her in the course of a session and the condition of the fish. I suspect the owners who are most visible on the bank would be the same ones who would be prepared to check licenses.
How many people fish in the UK? 2 Million? 3 Million? How many fish without a license?
The EA website has license sales in 05/06 of 1,296,865 which raises revenue of £20,292,629. If you use conservative figures for participation without a license of 800,000 you get a loss in revenue of £11 Million per year. This is quite a substantial sum, tax evasion on a massive scale! As the chances of being caught are so small, a large percentage of people do not buy a license, and get away with it , I imagine, year after year. If enforcement by Fishery owners or the understaffed EA is not an option how can you recover this lost revenue? A couple of suggestions
Option 1:
Outsource the License enforcement to a third party company, in a similar way that councils employ 3rd party enforcement companies. There is then a financial incentive to ensure licenses are checked on a regular basis with appropriate fines handed out for any one not in possession of a valid license.
Option 2:
Scrap the License completely and collect the revenue through a small percentile taxation of fishing tackle and bait.
The EA website has license sales in 05/06 of 1,296,865 which raises revenue of £20,292,629. If you use conservative figures for participation without a license of 800,000 you get a loss in revenue of £11 Million per year. This is quite a substantial sum, tax evasion on a massive scale! As the chances of being caught are so small, a large percentage of people do not buy a license, and get away with it , I imagine, year after year. If enforcement by Fishery owners or the understaffed EA is not an option how can you recover this lost revenue? A couple of suggestions
Option 1:
Outsource the License enforcement to a third party company, in a similar way that councils employ 3rd party enforcement companies. There is then a financial incentive to ensure licenses are checked on a regular basis with appropriate fines handed out for any one not in possession of a valid license.
Option 2:
Scrap the License completely and collect the revenue through a small percentile taxation of fishing tackle and bait.
Lord Paul of Sheffield
Well-known member
who will check that fishery owners will check rod liecenes
little oik
Well-known member
Who will check them to make sure that they are checking :wh.
We are in the middle of a debate in Ireland licences .I feel a lot of the monies raised would be swallowed up in admin etc allegedly. Far better to have a levy on all Fishing equipment and bait .That way everybody pays according to how much they fish .
As for commy owners checking licences why ever not . Have a sign put up no licence no fishing. end of .
We are in the middle of a debate in Ireland licences .I feel a lot of the monies raised would be swallowed up in admin etc allegedly. Far better to have a levy on all Fishing equipment and bait .That way everybody pays according to how much they fish .
As for commy owners checking licences why ever not . Have a sign put up no licence no fishing. end of .
jimmy crackedcorn
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When you buy a tv or digibox you have to give your address to the retailer. Those details are passed from currys or comet or whoever to the tv licencing bods. If they don't they are fined.
It should happen for day tickets. The ea could then send a undercover angler in the see if this is enforced. If not, large fine.
It should happen for day tickets. The ea could then send a undercover angler in the see if this is enforced. If not, large fine.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Define a "commercial" fishery. We can't even agree on what exactly one is on here. How you'd define it into law without dragging in a whole host of other fisheries, is beyond me.
As I said earlier, there's nothing in law to back the stance. If a law were brought in to support it then chances are that it would have to apply to all fisheries. Many day ticket waters would be no longer viable if there were any sanction against the landowner/fishing rights holder to ensure compliance.
If a fishery owner (commercial or otherwise) wishes to see evidence of a licence before allowing someone to fish, good luck to them. It can and does work on an ad hoc basis. (still doesn't stop the EA doing checks on the water though) Enshrine it in law and a whole different can of worms is opened.
Be careful what you wish for.
Lord Paul of Sheffield
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No speaky Inglesh
sam vimes
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You've just wiped out club day ticket waters, little farm ponds, council run waters, day tickets from a local tackle shop, post office, pub or butchers at a stroke. None of them are going to bother, not worth the time, expense or potential fine. On top of that, people lie. In such a small cash transaction, what's to stop the unscrupulous giving a false/fake address?
jimmy crackedcorn
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I should have phrased it better, in fact that post was a bit of a bodge really. Let me try again 
Lake owners should ask to see a rod licence when issuing a day or yearly permit. This would be enforced by undercover ea bods buying a ticket or permit to see if owners did this. If they didn't, big fine.
Lake owners should ask to see a rod licence when issuing a day or yearly permit. This would be enforced by undercover ea bods buying a ticket or permit to see if owners did this. If they didn't, big fine.
sam vimes
Well-known member
I should have phrased it better, in fact that post was a bit of a bodge really. Let me try again
Lake owners should ask to see a rod licence when issuing a day or yearly permit. This would be enforced by undercover ea bods buying a ticket or permit to see if owners did this. If they didn't, big fine.
Better, but you've still just killed any day ticket water with an honesty box system and any water that sells tickets through a third party. Hardly likely that the local PO, butcher, publican or even tackle dealer is going to want the extra hassle (if they even know a rod licence exists, let alone what one looks like, tackle shop excepted, hopefully!) and potential fine.
There's nowt like peeing on your own bonfire!
jimmy crackedcorn
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Other option is to do it when they buy tackle. This would stop the tacky and pretty useless pound shops selling it to poachers, but would the rest of the trade do it ? Apart from the big boys probably not. Let's face it customer service is optional in most.
So we keep it as we are then - optional. The whole trade, most waters and shops is so two bit it's an insult to two bit operations. We have a chance to regulate ourselves and free up the ea to do other things, and what is the consensus ( one I agree with Sam so im not having a go here) "we can't be arsed".
Never been checked so why do I bother ? I'm a mug !
So we keep it as we are then - optional. The whole trade, most waters and shops is so two bit it's an insult to two bit operations. We have a chance to regulate ourselves and free up the ea to do other things, and what is the consensus ( one I agree with Sam so im not having a go here) "we can't be arsed".
Never been checked so why do I bother ? I'm a mug !
chub_on_the_block
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I'm with Sam on this.
I do think fisheries could ask to see rod licences, and if they were happy to that would be great. To put duties on them to do so could not work everywhere and could lead to loss of fishing as Sam suggests. Somehow there needs to be a deterrent - even if if only a small risk of incurring the £1000 fine. Doubt that there is enough EA bailifs nationwide to make this deterent strong enough as it is, but a few targeted EA campaigns and associated publicity would help .
I do think fisheries could ask to see rod licences, and if they were happy to that would be great. To put duties on them to do so could not work everywhere and could lead to loss of fishing as Sam suggests. Somehow there needs to be a deterrent - even if if only a small risk of incurring the £1000 fine. Doubt that there is enough EA bailifs nationwide to make this deterent strong enough as it is, but a few targeted EA campaigns and associated publicity would help .
sam vimes
Well-known member
I'm afraid that I can't see the point of sale tax thing working either. To be worth the administration alone it would have to be akin to fuel/tobacco duty. Unlike fuel/tobacco there isn't the single product and/or unique point of sale. You don't get the likes of Boyes and Aldi selling petrol. Where you do get supermarkets muscling in on the fuel market they have seperate fuel forecourts. On top of that you can also pefectly legitimately buy tackle from abroad, bait, that isn't obviously a fishing product, from a supermarket or farm feed shop.
So, rather than wiping out a host of fisheries, you just wiped out the tackle trade.
The only sensible option remains something very close to what we have now. IMO the way forward is more stringent enforcement and much bigger fines that go directly to the EA to make enforcement break even, at very least. Couple that to confiscation (and subsequent sale, profits to the EA) of tackle should put all but the bravest/most stupid licence dodgers off.
So, rather than wiping out a host of fisheries, you just wiped out the tackle trade.
The only sensible option remains something very close to what we have now. IMO the way forward is more stringent enforcement and much bigger fines that go directly to the EA to make enforcement break even, at very least. Couple that to confiscation (and subsequent sale, profits to the EA) of tackle should put all but the bravest/most stupid licence dodgers off.
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jimmy crackedcorn
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Not convinced the current system is anywhere near fit for purpose unless we pay a big increase in rod licence that will only make it worse.
sam vimes
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I'm quite convinced that the current system isn't particularly fit for purpose. However, it may just be the best of a bad job though. The only way I can see of making the current system any better, without huge cost, is bigger fines and more vigorous enforcement. Alternatively, scrap licences and all the attendant costs (admin and enforcement) and rely on dubious central government funding.
I've yet to see a more viable alternative suggestion that actually stands up to even the most basic scrutiny. Change for changes sake is not the way forward IMO. One way or another, a big change will cost massively. You can bet it won't be central government that would bear that cost so it would either be anglers, the tackle trade or fisheries that get hammered in the short term. Ultimately, anglers would bear the brunt as costs get handed down. Depending on the changes made we could also end up paying by a loss of available water, loss of tackle shops or reduction in EA activity that's beneficial to angling.
As I've said already, be careful what you wish for.
greeny1321
Well-known member
I don't think there really is another way. At the end of the day unless the EA have 1 bod per water there are always gonna be people dodging and getting away with it. I don't see a way they can enforce it without the the cost going up for us already paying anglers which as as already been said will only make the dodging worse and the rest of us poorer.