link ledgering

[chav professor]

Just a thought.... what benefits are there to using a link ledger. I have stopped link ledgering for a number of years now and prefer to gently pinch the shot directly onto the main line straight through to the hook.

I had my doubts about link ledgers for some time and wondered if they work as intended...

If the flow is slow, I can often hold bottom with either no weight or a single swan shot - which in effect I suspect is to all intense and purpose as low a resistance as is possible. Reasonable sized fish would not notice such a small weight.

If you need to increase the weight, so long as the weight is in balance with the flow, when a fish dislodges the weight, it should drop down in the current.

There are two methods of adding the link... four turn water knot (think that is what its called) - a sure weak spot - and the refined method of locking the link ledger in place with rubber stops which whilst offers the flexibility of adjusting the distance between the hook and the link - it is fiddly.

IMO keeping everything as simple as possible actually translates better on the river bed.

Just interested in opinions..... link ledger.... fiddly waste of time? or an essential presentation that trips up fish?

 

[jasonbean1]

for light legering i still use the drennan grippa stops and a swivel with a short peice of line tied to it to add or remove weight as needed, other than that a loop to loop hooklink and thats the only inteneded weak link. i'm not keen on pinching modern shot on the line

however i see what your saying

cheer
jason

 

[robthomo]

For me the easiest way of knocking up a link is to double back the mainline and tie a couple of loops in it, the hooklink is attached loop to loop and the shot goes on the tag end. In theory you have created a fixed rig, in practice with a hooklink lighter than your mainline and/or shot pinched on lightly I have no problem with it.

Resistance wise I don't think it makes much difference

 

[Paul Morley]

Chav I hear you however if I then wish to use a light bomb or feeder, I'd have to break it down. A little swivel trapped between leger stops means I can vary the length of the trail (the swan shot are on a link attached to it) or change to other weights. Sometimes I'm not thrilled about pinching shot on line either. The link also means I can have it break off easily on a river like the Ribble. In really snaggy scenarios I'm back with you - maybe tho a bit of plasticine as a weight or freeline, tho I'm never that good at freelining, everything seems to work better with at least a swan shot!

 

[Sean Meeghan]

I agree with Paul. I can't remember the last time I used a link ledger. I think that the original rationale for using them was that the fishwouldn't feel the weight when it took the bait - not entirely true.

Using a string of shot may have another advantage in that fish probably recognise the sound of ledgers and feeders hitting the water and may become more cautious. A mate of mine often uses a widely spaced string of shot when barbel fishing. His view is that this is less likely to spook fish due to either the noise or from seeing the weight. He also thinks that the noise of the shot might well attract fish, a technique that commercial matchmen use regularly.

 

[nicepix]

Link ledgering can be useful. Small running swivel or link bead and a ledger stop with a weak link to the weight which can be shot pinched on or a light bullet weight with a shot underneath to stop it. On a river you can get your main line off the bottom allowing a worm or minnow bait to roll around a bit more freely. I tend to use it more in snaggy swims where I'm willing to sacrifice the lead.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I would use links over a soft bed or a bed with fine algae on it - hopefully the swivel to the link ledger wont get blocked enabling a free running tail away from the lead. I usualluy use a silicon tubing or stiff link to the ledger to avoid tangles. However, i do think in-line ledgers or method feeders etc work a lot better in that respect

 

[dezza]

The concept of the link leger was probably invented by Peter Stone in the late 50s. It became the subject of intense debate, the two chief proponents being Peter Stone and **** Walker. Walker was of the opinion that when a fish picked up a bait fished on the leger, the lead was the first to move, not the rod top. Stoney countered the argument by stating that he caught more fish on his link leger than a leger which didn't have the link.

Part of the debate appears in Stoney's book: "Legering".

As far as I am concerned I tend to agree with Stoney.

 

[peterjg]

If you are legering directly downstream of your rod tip then a link leger is ok but if you are casting further out (or upstream legering) a fixed link (paternoster) is definately better.

 

[bigchub]

I've used a few incarnations of various link legers and fixed paternoster rigs over the years. I never like the idea of adding shot directly to the line as an alternative, as even if pinched on lightly I'm paranoid about it weakening the line. The fewer weak spots in the rig the better as far as I'm concerned, with the hook knot being the only knot in the set up.

From my own personal experiences -

Four turn water knot fixed paternoster

Probably the most widely used setup but it does cause its fair number of problems and does have some some significant drawbacks.

a. You can't lengthen the hook length. You are stuck with the one you start with, but you can shorten it easily.

b. If your leger link is anymore than half the length of your hook length then tangles are pretty frequent.

c. When casting out with a fairly heavy bait (meat, cheesepaste), the two links don't force themselves away from each other, resulting in tangles especially if the leger link is less supple than the main line.

Martin Bowler adjustable link leger

Certainly an improvement over the fixed paternoster but the use of a float stop males the link adjustable and therefore the length of the hook length. A semi stiff piece of fluorocarbon pushed through the float stop on the mainline helps maintain a fairly tangle free rig but the fluorocarbon pulls out of the float stop far too easily for my liking resulting in lots of lost shot and links. Its also quite fiddly to push the fluorocarbon through the float stop in the first place!mg:

Winter Chub - Martin Bowler - YouTube

Terry Lampard link leger

Now my first choice leger rig for winter chubbing and not just because Terry uses it. Very easy to change length of hook length and adjust weight of shot. Simple in its construction and supremely versatile. Shot losses are at a minimum. Don't be tempted to use grippa stops instead of float stops for this rig as if a chub does take you into snags then its important that the stops can move up the line. I'm sure if it was fixed in anyway then it would result in far more lost fish.

 

[jasonbean1]

big chub..whats the difference between a drennan grippa stop and a drennan float stop?

 

[bigchub]

big chub..whats the difference between a drennan grippa stop and a drennan float stop?

Grippa stops as their name suggests are designed to stay in place on the line. The float stops are much softer and can be slid up and down the line easily with a lot less chance of damaging the line.

 

[chav professor]

Trust me, if its between 1 and 4 swan shot...... Do away with 'Terry's' link ledger........ It serves no purpose whatsoever....

There is a chance that shot can weaken the line? But if you consider wagler or stick float fishing, the shot is always on the line - which is generally far thinner and this is never where my line fails.

Stuff around the line is far more prone to snagging.

Its interesting that Martin Bowler has a rig... he is a nice guy and a good angler - but he does have an annoying habit of reinventing the wheel.

I was aware of the peter stone/richard walker debate and wonder if this is why the link ledger is cemented in our minds as the 'best' method. If the lead is balanced with the flow within a bit - you could argue that either points of view could stand true to some extent.

 

[bigchub]

I guess I just didn't get on with Martin's rig for the reasons I stated above but that just me where as the Drennan ring on Terry's rig allows tangles to be a thing of the past. Its nice casting out knowing that my rig is not going to tangle. Peace of mind and all that. Can't say I've ever had a tangle with it all the time I've used it and its sheer versatility is what makes it so good.

 

[dezza]

Terry Lampard link leger

Now my first choice leger rig for winter chubbing and not just because Terry uses it. Very easy to change length of hook length and adjust weight of shot. Simple in its construction and supremely versatile. Shot losses are at a minimum. Don't be tempted to use grippa stops instead of float stops for this rig as if a chub does take you into snags then its important that the stops can move up the line. I'm sure if it was fixed in anyway then it would result in far more lost fish.

This Terry Lampard link leger is an adaptation of the Fred J Taylor leger, which was probably invented by brother (cousin) Joe.

Instead of the float stops, he used a BB shot.

I have used this set up for years and still use it.

It works.

 

[bigchub]

This Terry Lampard link leger is an adaptation of the Fred J Taylor leger, which was probably invented by brother (cousin) Joe.

Instead of the float stops, he used a BB shot.

I have used this set up for years and still use it.

It works.

Well you learn something new everyday Ron. Very interesting. Thanks for that info.

 

[chav professor]

It is an interesting debate..... From a purely personal point of view I think it is healthy to revisit established fishing lore and challenge or even be a little critical of things that are widely accepted.

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------

Just an observation here... I was roach fishing last season using a micro feeder with liquidised crumb and bread punch on the hook for roach. I was fishing off a lock gate under a willow canopy. I noticed that whilst i was getting bites, they were lightning fast and incredibly difficult to hit.

The rig i used was effectively a link ledger..... I was fortunate that I could actually make out what was happening. the water clarity had a bit of colour, but by tracking the progress of the bread - now you see it, now you don't - I noticed that the roach actually had the bait in its mouth a while before the quiver tip showed a deflection. therefore the tip did not register for some time the bait was in the mouth.

In this instance it was simple a case of sight fishing and striking when the bait was engulfed (disapeared from sight). Further on in the session, after doing away with the feeder and placing 3 BB shot on the line balanced to the flow, with a slight bow in the line, bites were hittable.

This is not like for like as obviously the micro feeder was in all probability not considered to be balanced..... made me think...

 

[nicepix]

That doesn't make sense as a link ledger. You might as well have the shot on your main line. The idea is to allow fish to take line without moving any weight. This set up has minimal distance between shot and link. That is basically a bolt rig with split shot as weight. Useful for weedy swims where the weights will pull off, but not much else.

Take out the upper backstop and you have a free running ledger, not a link ledger. Better, but not quite right.

Leaving the backstop on and move the shot at least six inches from the mainline (use a split ring or small swivel as a connector) and now you have a link ledger although it can be argued that the upper backstop is unnecessary. Take it off and you have what I would call a link ledger.

When used for small to medium fish such as bream the link ledger was just another loop in the mainline. These could be 6" to 12" long. An Arlesy Bomb was slipped on and the appropriate hook length added. The hook length could be up to 6' long in some cases to allow fish to take the bait on the way down. When using a swing tip the angler would cast out, straighten and sink the line quickly then place the rod on the front rest only, holding the butt and watching the tip settle back. When the tip dropped right back the angler would wind in slightly to re-tighten the line and watch the tip drop back. This was repeated until everything was tight. Bites were signalled by the tip flickering on the drop or hesitating. In this case there were no swivels, no stop shot, no float stops, no ledger stops or anything other than a hook and ledger, the ledger being hinged on a loop of mainline. It was used on the Fenland rivers to devastating effect.

On rivers this would natrually cause tangles and so they would use a running link from a swivel or split rig, stopped with one small shot and a weak link or around 6" with the required shot lightly pinched on at the other end to the main line. The only thing the fish moves is the small stop shot. Everything else is hinged or running. Nowdays, plastic stops are available to replace the stop shot so it is even better.

 

[chav professor]

This is where my opinion of the link ledger/running rigs differs... does the hinge really effectively work as intended?

If BigChub removed the stops behind his rig and allowed a theroetical movement of the line through the ring... does this actually happen in practice?

I would suggest that with a few swan shot to maybe even 1 or 2 ounces, the free running aspect of any rig is circumspect - hence why I pinch the shot directly on the line.

Additionally, the rig BigChub describes would not behave as a bolt rig if that amount of shot was just sufficient to hold bottom - it should wash down with the flow offering little or no resistance - unless it gets caught up on some rubbish on the bottom. I suspect that by introducing a longer link, the chances of this concept working efficiently is lost as there is so much more clutter on your rig to catch on weed, gravel etc..

I am happy for the fish to move the weight, so long as a ledger rig is balanced, you should get an indication before the fish gets to know about it... the most exagerated case is that of upstream ledgering....

One of the best books written on ledgering is 'Fantastic feeder fishing' by Archie Braddock... If there is a bit of a flow a cast just upstream of the position of the angler is best (as terry lampard does on his video incidently). Balance the lead to hold bottom, cast a little upstream, let the feeder progress with the bail arm open to introduce a bow in the line. Bites are indicated as drop backs - the tip straightening.... no point striking.... reel in untill contact with the fish is made to set the hook. Its a bit like uptiding for cod, less lead is needed than tightening up to the lead.

For down stream ledgering on small slow flowing rivers where less than 2 swan shot may be required, perhaps no lead at all, I cast out allow a droop of line keeping every thing slack and strike when the bow straightens out. I would not be confident to do this with a further tail of line with a weight on it and trust that the line moves before the weight.

 

[nicepix]

When rigged properly, i.e. with a length of line between the shot or weight and the main line the only thing the fish moves is the line and whatever you are using for a stop or stops. There is no pulling line through a swivel or moving shot. With today's options you could have a loop of line with a float stop creating a tiny loop that ran along the main line and was stopped by another float stop. Once you cast and everything goes tight the only thing that the fish moves is the link line and a float stop.

It does have other uses however in being able to space shot out rather than have one larger weight on soft bottoms or over weed or to offer sacrificial weights over snags. The shot can be made to pull off the link quite easily.
By having the short link you can activate your bait (worms and minnows for example) without lifting your weight from the bottom and ideal for rolling baits across the current.
And, of course, the roving angler can quickly add or subtract shot from the link to suit whatever swim he comes across.
But, the best use is in still water when ledgering for shy biting species or when float-ledgering as it offers the least resistence of any rig.