whip flick tip versus elastic question

[rubberducky]

Hi all,
historically, ive used a whip to hand, catching roach, perch and micro carp etc... and connected my rigs to a stonfo type connector, araldited to the end of said whip.
having just bought a cheap whip today to casually use, or borrow to non fishing, mildly interested friends and family, it comes with not just a flick tip but an elasticated tip also.
how does one then set up the rig to hand, allowing for the weight of a hooked fish having pulled the elastic out as it is being swung in?

this just seems alien to me as i usually take sections off my pole - when using a longer 11m pole, to get down to swinging the fish in using my top 2 or 3.
with the whip being 4m and telescopic, you cant break it down shorter on the way in so the fish will have to be swung in from 4m high plus the elastic stretching, i cant get my head around how best it will work. especially if fishing up in the water :wh

any ideas?

cheers n stuff

rubberducky...

 

[jasonbean1]

most fishing nowadays is done with elastic, mainly due to the fact anglers are fishing for bigger fish. if you are happy catching small fish and are not loosing big fish a fick tip is fine.

there's plenty of videos on you tube that point you in the right direction

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgb3jJXRhPM]A beginner's guide to starting pole fishing - YouTube[/ame]

pole fishing for beginners - YouTube

 

[rubberducky]

most fishing nowadays is done with elastic, mainly due to the fact anglers are fishing for bigger fish. if you are happy catching small fish and are not loosing big fish a fick tip is fine.

there's plenty of videos on you tube that point you in the right direction

A beginner's guide to starting pole fishing - YouTube

pole fishing for beginners - YouTube

thanks for the reply. i already have several poles and have been using them for years.
im asking about the problem of fishing to hand, using an elasticated end section on a non collapsable, (non put over), telescopic whip.
im starting to think maybe you would use elastic when fishing at longer range perhaps? so you dont need such a long length of line between pole tip and float.

any other help?

rubberducky...

 

[steph mckenzie]

Having the Elastic fitted might help if there a some slightly larger fish that could be caught, so you wouldn't necessarily use it to fish to hand with, but use a landing net instead, smaller fish could still be fished to hand if you were using a size 4 elastic say as they wouldn't pull the elastic out that far anyway.

 

[ravey]

I would ignore the elasticated kit, and fish it with the flick tip. I have never understood why anyone would want to use a whip with elastic...I would use a pole for that job.

Having said that, I fish natural venues. A 'lump' of carp on a whip would be a real headache! I once got a 4.5lb chub in on 1.5lb bottom on 5m of Daiwa Connoisseur. Barbel aren't with you for long, though.

 

[rubberducky]

thanks for the reply chaps.
i guess ill best go and give it a try both with and without the elastic sections. ill probrably prefer not using the elastic tip but well see.

tightlines

rubberducky...

 

[Peter Jacobs]

I would ignore the elasticated kit, and fish it with the flick tip. I have never understood why anyone would want to use a whip with elastic...I would use a pole for that job

Short whips were designed for catching relatively small fish, close in to the bank. The idea of elasticating one really makes it obsolete, as you would be far better off using the top 3 or 4 sections of a long pole suitably elasticated for the target size of fish.

Proper short whips are also not designed (wall thickness etc.) for really large fish so you will be placing undue stress and strain on the whip by elasticating it.

Here's a piece I did some time ago for FM on short whip fishing, hope it helps :

http://www.fishingmagic.com/feature...ral_fishing/9225-peter_jacobs_short_whip.html

 

[bennygesserit]

Having the Elastic fitted might help if there a some slightly larger fish that could be caught, so you wouldn't necessarily use it to fish to hand with, but use a landing net instead, smaller fish could still be fished to hand if you were using a size 4 elastic say as they wouldn't pull the elastic out that far anyway.

yes that is what I do when whip fishing on the canal and the odd bonus tench is caught - the elastic came in really usefull

 

[rubberducky]

great stuff thanks.
very comprehensive guide but still a couple of q's.

so even with a 5 or 6m whip, you obviously need almost 5 or 6 m of line when fishing to hand. if using a shallow rig you could end up with over 5m of line above the float to the whip tip, couldnt you?

also, do you ever collapse the telescopic whip to somehow make it easier to land fish using a net?

cheers

rubberducky...

 

[bennygesserit]

Yes it seems awkward but you get used to it , I once combined a whip top three with a put together pole , it was brilliant.

 

[rubberducky]

awkward definately.

im used to having a lot of line between pole and float with my 3m drennan team england whip so i guess ill av to do the same with the increase to 5 or 6m...

still not sure how the elastic section will help like. i might put some stronger in when using a particular whip thats rated to 20 elastic.

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0048EEA4G/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00"]Middy Power Carp 5.5m Whip Ready To Fish Outfit: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mdXpylKGL.@@AMEPARAM@@51mdXpylKGL[/ame]

it will all make sense when i get chance to play about with it for real on my next silver fish bashing outing i guess.

thanks all

rubberducky...

 

[ravey]

It's the most basic of fishing methods - in theory...but you do have to carefully weigh up factors such as distance, depth, flow, and wind direction (and strength) before you decide if it is a better method on any particular day (I'm talking about fishing strung-out rigs 'to hand' at 5 and 6 metres here). If one of these factors is not quite right, you are probably better off fishing the long pole/ short line. Fishing a heavy bulk rig should be easier, and the factors outlined above not so critical when this style is employed.

As an example, there is a stretch on the Trent where I like to fish for roach. But the venue is quite shallow. I would love to catch them on the whip, but as rubberducky posed, to fish the distance necessary, there would be too much line between whip tip and float. I can see the bottom at 7/8 metres, and that is after wading out. My answer to this situation is to fish either the stick or the pole.

On another, slightly deeper venue on the same river, if the wind is facing or upstream, then too much line can affect presentation to the degree that it affects your catch rate. A pole fished with a short line (not so affected by the wind) solves the problem.

The actual fshing of the whip is simple enough, I think. It's the evaluation of the prevailing conditions which can be tricky.

Hope this helps, and doesn't just confuse!

 

[rubberducky]

It's the most basic of fishing methods - in theory...but you do have to carefully weigh up factors such as distance, depth, flow, and wind direction (and strength) before you decide if it is a better method on any particular day (I'm talking about fishing strung-out rigs 'to hand' at 5 and 6 metres here). If one of these factors is not quite right, you are probably better off fishing the long pole/ short line. Fishing a heavy bulk rig should be easier, and the factors outlined above not so critical when this style is employed.

As an example, there is a stretch on the Trent where I like to fish for roach. But the venue is quite shallow. I would love to catch them on the whip, but as rubberducky posed, to fish the distance necessary, there would be too much line between whip tip and float. I can see the bottom at 7/8 metres, and that is after wading out. My answer to this situation is to fish either the stick or the pole.

On another, slightly deeper venue on the same river, if the wind is facing or upstream, then too much line can affect presentation to the degree that it affects your catch rate. A pole fished with a short line (not so affected by the wind) solves the problem.

The actual fshing of the whip is simple enough, I think. It's the evaluation of the prevailing conditions which can be tricky.

Hope this helps, and doesn't just confuse!

no confusion at all. great addition to the thread thanks.
just need to bookmark this one for future reference...
ill keep checking back to see if its been updated or added to also.

like ravey says, its horses for courses. ive got my head around it now. even with such a long length of line out between pole/whip tip (non - elasticated) and float, its just like using a rod, fishing and needing to mend the line when required. 5 or 6 m to hand, doesnt seem too daunting now. if conditions allow.
including space above the peg - trees and powerlines nearby aint good.

also, i can see its advantages when fishing for spooky shoals of fish where a pole waving above their heads would see them vacate the swim.

i might play about with stronger/different elastic strengths to the point where you can still swing a fish in to hand with the elastic stretched as this would mean less line required between pole tip and float and more control in windy conditions or when fishing shallow at full 6m range.

tight lines all - elasticated or not.

rubberducky...

 

[David Dalton]

Hi Rubberducky - it looks to me as if that whip has been built for two quite different purposes. Size 22 is a very strong elastic, so when using this it must be meant to act as a carp margin pole.

You would never use 22 elastic for silver fish - 5 or 6 would be about right - so presumably the elasticated section is meant for carp only.

Likewise, you would never use a flick tip for anything larger than roach, it would be quite unsuitable for carp.

As far as landing carp is concerned with the elastic, I can only imagine that if the whip does not break down easily then you are meant to push it behind you, as pole anglers do with a roller.

 

[rubberducky]

Hi Rubberducky - it looks to me as if that whip has been built for two quite different purposes. Size 22 is a very strong elastic, so when using this it must be meant to act as a carp margin pole.

You would never use 22 elastic for silver fish - 5 or 6 would be about right - so presumably the elasticated section is meant for carp only.

Likewise, you would never use a flick tip for anything larger than roach, it would be quite unsuitable for carp.

As far as landing carp is concerned with the elastic, I can only imagine that if the whip does not break down easily then you are meant to push it behind you, as pole anglers do with a roller.

i know. seems as tho the pole has been aimed at two markets to gain popularity and sales units perhaps.

i have a carp margin pole already, daiwa yank n bank which i have caught up to 16lb carp with using red drennan carp bungee - sssttreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.

for £20 and only telescopic, i wont realistically be using this as a margin pole - unless im in a daft mood... ill be exploring its primary use as a whip - as said above.

rubberducky...

 

[silvers]

on the River Wye we use whips with no.12 elastic, simply because a normal fine flick tip would not be up to lifting 8 oz + dace.
Also - its good insurance for the roach up to 2lb and chub to 5 ...... which turn regularly.

As well as being simple and fun, the whip in match fishing is essentially a speed fishing method where the idea is to swing the fish straight to hand, minimising time lost by netting.

 

[rubberducky]

on the River Wye we use whips with no.12 elastic, simply because a normal fine flick tip would not be up to lifting 8 oz + dace.
Also - its good insurance for the roach up to 2lb and chub to 5 ...... which turn regularly.

As well as being simple and fun, the whip in match fishing is essentially a speed fishing method where the idea is to swing the fish straight to hand, minimising time lost by netting.

great post. cleared a few things up thanks.
jus wondering what strength line you use to swing 8 oz fish to hand?

tight lines

rubberducky...

 

[ravey]

You CAN swing in 8oz fish, BUT it can create more problems than it solves - hook pulls and the associated risk of tangles.

If I am setting out to target fish of this stamp (and bigger, hopefully!), I would normally try to wade (up to knee depth ideally), and draw the fish across the surface straight to hand. Not as potentially quick as swinging, but safer and not much slower. Anything below 8oz I am happy to swing; I'll outline the gear I use in a moment.

Sometimes, usually when there is a marauding pike about, swinging fish of this size and bigger becomes a necessity. I don't fish matches any more, so if I am attracting interest from pike, I might as well have a go for the critter, and enjoy a bit of sport rather than tear my hair out! As soon as there is any indication of a pike, I flick a spinner or a livebait out. Once unhooked, it is released several pegs away, and I can fish more 'normally'.

It is usually when I am using hemp and tares that I will be expecting quality fish on the whip. I normally fish at 5 or 6 metres, and have a Daiwa Connoisseur whip. This is a light, but deceptively strong piece of kit. I will use 1.5lb Maxima main line, 1.5lb Shakespeare Omni hooklength and a size 16 barbless hook (Mustad 90340). The big hook gives some measure of security when swinging good fish - as does attaching the line using the 'double-rubber' method. The Maxima is stretchy and robust, which can be important when you only have the flex of the whip to provide cushioning. The Omni is a nice compromise between old school lines like Bayer, and the more common hi-tec lines. Importantly, it will break before the Maxima (which is under-rated in terms of breaking strain). All knots used provide 100% strength or close. So...the whole set up is well balanced. If fishing at 5 metres, I will usually use a 0.5g rig strung out with 8s and 10s (Drennan Carbo doctored with a couple of coats of clear nail varnish and a final coat of matt black paint to provide extra durability and stop it taking on water). If I am NEEDING to swing big fish, then I would uprate my lines, and use a tip that has been cut back more (or simply substitute the flicktip for a hollow tip section).

If a fish drops off whilst being swung in, if I am quick enough, I can 'turn' the rig over and 'slap' it on the water to avoid tangling. If it does tangle, it is often just a case of 'shaking' the tangle out - thanks to the strung out shotting pattern. Olivette rigs frequently result in a tangle if a drop occurs - as do waggler rigs on rod and line.

The only other sort of fishing I use my whip for is at shorter lengths for 'bits', which I suppose is what many people see as its 'true' role.

Anyhow, as you can probably gather, I love fishing the whip, and have put a lot of thought into it (could still do with more practise, though!).

As before, hope this helps and doesn't just confuse.

 

[103841]

Holy thread revival

What's five years between friends?

I'm about to try an elasticated whip and have the same concerns as Rubberducky did.

Anybody use a proper whip elasticated?

 

[fishplate42]

Again I stress that I have very little experience with whips and elastic. I have tried to ask similar questions in the past (admittedly not on this fine forum!) and got plenty of conflicting views. But in a nutshell, if you have elastic in it and it is pulled out by the weight of the fish it is time to land it with a net.

If it is a whip it does not have elastic in it (according to my personal definition). The cheap so-called 'elasticated' whips are a joke. The top section has a short length of thin elastic tied to a length of line and a washer to jam it in the papering top section.

I have had great fun with these cheap poles catching all sorts on them. Get hooked into a 1½lb F1 and you can be playing it for an age. I have elasticated all my poles, even if they were sold as whips, using 'stora' bungs in the second section and using a variety of elastics but a number 10 solid seems to cope with most things. Elasticating them is really simple and I have written up the method I use HERE. I rig these small poles like I would if they were a full-size pole, that is with a short rig. If it is a tele-pole, I just collapse it into itself, as if I was shipping in a full sized pole.

Recently I have acquired a fair few 'proper' whips with flick tips. I rig them so the rig is about 600mm (24 inches) shorter than the whip. Works fine for swinging to hand.

Ralph.