Ground bait mix for crucian ?

[russell_bush]

I'm going to be doing some close range float fishing for crucians. Can someone recommend a brand/make of ground bait to use to attract and hold the tricky little blighters ?
Thanks.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

The vogue ground bait these days seems to be Sonubaits Supercrush Green although I've had success in the past with Sensas 3000 Super Bream Red.

I like the richness and the particle size of the Sensas but have also used Sensas Magic Red as well which is a little finer in both richness and particle size for smaller fish.

 

[jasonbean1]

ideally if your close in your best using a pole and short line with a small toss pot with micro pellets and a 4mm expander on the hook. you can sweeten the baits up a bit with scopex and fish dead depth or just a tad over with a light slim float. feed and lift float and lower gently as the micro's drop.

personally i would avoid groundbait as it plays into there game where they can avoid hookbaits and just feed on the groundbait, this is the same tactic i'd use for skimmers. if on a rod and line a small slim waggler and carefully feed dampened sweetened micro's by hand in small balls.

 

[russell_bush]

Thanks both. Jason, good thinking on ground bait possibly making a rod for my own back.

 

[trotter2]

They respond well to bread and bran mixed with tuna and few pieces of corn thrown in. But don't overdo it.

 

[Ben Haigh]

Dynamite betaine green micros for me. Mind you, they attract every bloody thing, not just crucians, lol

 

[Ray Roberts]

I usually just loose feed with a mixture of particles and chop and change hook-baits until I find what they seem to prefer.

 

[S-Kippy]

I usually just loose feed with a mixture of particles and chop and change hook-baits until I find what they seem to prefer.

Me too. Where you on Milton yesterday Ray ? I couldn't see you.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

Try some pellets soaked in Pristex banana SAC Juice and see what happens

 

[robtherake]

Best baits for me have been casters or worms, without groundbait. I've caught a lot of big crucians fishing single caster with a fine wire hook small enough to bury inside completely and fished at dead depth with an ultra-sensitive float shotted so the surface film is just holding it up. Trickle-fed casters - just a few after each fish - keeps them interested without attracting the attention of too many mud pigs or tincas.

Of course, you can always drop a bolt-rigged bait in the edge if the shy takes are driving you nuts. Not exactly sporting, but a bait consisting of several worm sections on a long hair (Quickstopped) and bolt rig can be deadly. More to the point, you don't miss any bites!

 

[laguna]

Oh my aching arms!
Last year a mate of ours decided to target them towards the end of the day with 4mm skrettings hook bait dampened with banana? SAC juice.
The owner came along as we were packing up, "how did you get on lads"? "caught 30 crucian's" says mate, "yeah right pull the other one, there's only 50 in the whole lake"!...

 

[greenie62]

Oh my aching arms!
Last year a mate of ours decided to target them towards the end of the day with 4mm skrettings hook bait dampened with banana? SAC juice.

Hey Chris,
Why put

banana? SAC juice.

- was it 'banana' flavour or not?

I would guess you ought to know - if anyone does!!

I'm currently engaged on a CRUsade for TruCrus amongst all the Hybrids in our local waters - so anything that helps me target Crus is worthy of investigation - hence the interest.
Cheers & Tight lines :thumbs:

 

[laguna]

Hey Chris,
Why put - was it 'banana' flavour or not?

I would guess you ought to know - if anyone does!!

I'm currently engaged on a CRUsade for TruCrus amongst all the Hybrids in our local waters - so anything that helps me target Crus is worthy of investigation - hence the interest.
Cheers & Tight lines :thumbs:

I'm not at work to check but knowing him he would have used banana SAC - its the one he has most confidence in but I do know most of them weren't true cruies sorry!

I remember we were testing our sPUNCH tool that day to create 3mm hookbaits fishing up in the water for roach and rudd and had already convinced ourselves early on of its success, well enough to warrant production and for Alan to then go "free styling" and target crucians using flavoured pellet. We knew they were in there but never before targeted them specifically and certainly didnt expect him to get 30 out.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Me too. Where you on Milton yesterday Ray ? I couldn't see you.

Yes, I fished the far side, no Crucians at all but a cracking day for Tench 27 up to just over 5lb and one decent Roach, I thought the Crucians may have been spawning as I saw plenty swirling about.

 

[S-Kippy]

Yes, I fished the far side, no Crucians at all but a cracking day for Tench 27 up to just over 5lb and one decent Roach, I thought the Crucians may have been spawning as I saw plenty swirling about.

You may be right. Whatever they were up to they just wouldn't settle.

 

[greenie62]

knowing him he would have used banana SAC - its the one he has most confidence in but I do know most of them weren't true cruies sorry!

Thanks for the update Chris,
- and the piccy! Its a lot closer to a TruCru than most of the Hybrids I've been getting - I'll examine the piccy closer - shame I can't see the tail fin spread out.
As a matter of interest have you ever compared Banana SAC to real Banana chunks? That gives me an idea ...... !
Cheers - just off to hair-rig some of Fyffes finest (... other banana shippers are available ... - wouldn't want to be accused of product placement! )

 

[laguna]

Thanks for the update Chris,
- and the piccy! Its a lot closer to a TruCru than most of the Hybrids I've been getting - I'll examine the piccy closer - shame I can't see the tail fin spread out.
As a matter of interest have you ever compared Banana SAC to real Banana chunks? That gives me an idea ...... !
Cheers - just off to hair-rig some of Fyffes finest (... other banana shippers are available ... - wouldn't want to be accused of product placement! )

Ha ha yeah product placement, I try to keep an open mind...
This from what I posted before;

Feeding lumps of banana on the hook has never worked well in my experience. Adding banana to your feed as an additive in groundbaits or as a mash may be better but it will probably take time to work.
I believe this is due to the fibrous make-up and insoluble ingredients present, having tested this 'theory' on numerous occasions over the years compared when using banana 'maggot shapes' with tiny slivers of skin as hook bait also made little difference.

I'm of the opinion that solubility (and time needed to become soluble) is the key to attraction, that 'washed out look' has little to do with appearance more to do with solubility Imo. Solubility certainly plays a part in stimulation because fish have the innate ability (all fish to varying degrees) to detect ions in the water that excites their olfactory senses. However from a visual point of view; they are more likely to trust their own instinct once feeding confidently anyway and a stimulatory attraction (unless negative) seems to make little difference.

Potassium (the key component of banana) is more electropositive than sodium. Even so, because its 'bound' within the banana and not in the solute its therefore not solvated (dissolved in the water) - its macro and far two big a molecule to excite and attract.

In this regard; extracts made from a real food item (particularly Glycerite's made without alcohol) are full of nutritious soluble and solvated components. Its essentially why they're so more potent compared to the real whole fruit/food. An extract of banana like SAC juice will contain potassium and everything that is attractive to fish - more so than the banana itself.

The trouble with bait and 'flavours' and such Greenie; how do we as anglers single out a single species? I mean fish will generally eat whatever they find attractive anyway (on the day) so I guess its down to using the best quality extract you can lay your hands on :wh together with the method that best works when targeting our quarry... One other point worthy of consideration; I would always have a change bait - not because the one we use is **** simply because fish seek out certain nutrients and need a variety of foods to sustain themselves just like any creature, no single food item is nutritionally complete - reason why our bait will work well one day but not the next?

An extract made with real food is 100% natural and nutritious and least unlikely to blow imho even long term!

Good luck.

 

[Ray Roberts]

I think I may give the banana a go. I have been experimenting with dosing the bait with Lo Salt and it's a bit early to say if it makes a positive difference.

All I have really discovered so far is that they don't hate it and my catches have been better than the anglers within my sight.

 

[greenie62]

Thanks for the very full response Chris,
Your point about 'change baits' is well made. For example - if I have Muesli for breakfast - I feel it's quite reasonable to have Pie n Chips for dinner, whereas if I have a Bacon Butty for brekkers, I'd avoid eating Pie n Chips and might seek out a Salad (almost a capital offence in Wigan!) Yeah I know it's anthropomorphising - but it makes the point!

Potassium (the key component of banana) is more electropositive than sodium.

Your point about the relative ionic K v Na attraction is amplified in Rays note about LoSalt where c.60% of the Sodium ions are replaced by Potassium in a readily soluble form.

Next step: LoSalt dosed hair-rigged banana chunks?!?! uke:

Thanks for the help lads! :thumbs:

 

[binka]

Ha ha yeah product placement, I try to keep an open mind...
This from what I posted before;

Feeding lumps of banana on the hook has never worked well in my experience. Adding banana to your feed as an additive in groundbaits or as a mash may be better but it will probably take time to work.
I believe this is due to the fibrous make-up and insoluble ingredients present, having tested this 'theory' on numerous occasions over the years compared when using banana 'maggot shapes' with tiny slivers of skin as hook bait also made little difference.

I'm of the opinion that solubility (and time needed to become soluble) is the key to attraction, that 'washed out look' has little to do with appearance more to do with solubility Imo. Solubility certainly plays a part in stimulation because fish have the innate ability (all fish to varying degrees) to detect ions in the water that excites their olfactory senses. However from a visual point of view; they are more likely to trust their own instinct once feeding confidently anyway and a stimulatory attraction (unless negative) seems to make little difference.

Potassium (the key component of banana) is more electropositive than sodium. Even so, because its 'bound' within the banana and not in the solute its therefore not solvated (dissolved in the water) - its macro and far two big a molecule to excite and attract.

In this regard; extracts made from a real food item (particularly Glycerite's made without alcohol) are full of nutritious soluble and solvated components. Its essentially why they're so more potent compared to the real whole fruit/food. An extract of banana like SAC juice will contain potassium and everything that is attractive to fish - more so than the banana itself.

The trouble with bait and 'flavours' and such Greenie; how do we as anglers single out a single species? I mean fish will generally eat whatever they find attractive anyway (on the day) so I guess its down to using the best quality extract you can lay your hands on :wh together with the method that best works when targeting our quarry... One other point worthy of consideration; I would always have a change bait - not because the one we use is **** simply because fish seek out certain nutrients and need a variety of foods to sustain themselves just like any creature, no single food item is nutritionally complete - reason why our bait will work well one day but not the next?

An extract made with real food is 100% natural and nutritious and least unlikely to blow imho even long term!

Good luck.

That's a cracking post once again Chris.

You mention something which I've heavily subscribed to myself over the last few months, namely solubility but I can't help questioning what I see as contradictions whereby I can fish with a soft, soluble bait such as bread and catch plenty of fish yet still do the same with hard pellets that have barely had time to hit the deck before they are taken?

I've tried cross referencing solubility with digestability in my own mind but I'm really not clever enough to come to a reasonable conclusion yet it all seems to work in practice?

I guess I should be happy things work but I'm struggling on this one?