Is it me or Has River Fishing Generally Declined?

[maverick 7]

This has got to be the worst ever year for me on the rivers and last year wasn't much better either. I frequent rivers like the Trent, Dove, Don and others not quite so frequently and I have struggled for a couple of years now on these venues.

I used to have some great days on these venues but I can't buy a bite these days....on the feeder or the stick.

I do realise of course that occasionally (I think) there are still good days being had by some individuals....but not by me.

I wondered what kind of season the rest of you have had on the rivers.....I really can't understand it.....I can't believe that I have simply been picking crappy venues EVERY time.....or could it be that I am not as good on the rivers as I think I am....or used to be?

Maverick

 

[sam vimes]

I've had a pretty good year on the rivers. However, high temperatures, low water levels, very clear water and strong weed growth conspired to make some stretches quite difficult at times. I found that the fish often just weren't present in pegs and areas that I'd expect them to be in more typical wetter summer conditions.

 

[john step]

I've had a pretty good year on the rivers. However, high temperatures, low water levels, very clear water and strong weed growth conspired to make some stretches quite difficult at times. I found that the fish often just weren't present in pegs and areas that I'd expect them to be in more typical wetter summer conditions.

Yes, I feel we get more rapid fluctuations nowadays between low water and sudden surges which doesn't make for consistent sport.
As to the Trent, Maverick, I know some anglers that have struggled and some that have done well by changing tactics and fishing for the roach instead of barbel. Lets hope the roach re emergance continues.

 

[Keith M]

I fish upper stretches of rivers like the Lea, the Ivel, the Gt Ouse and the Colne where it's often little more than a stream and have had some really good days after Barbel, Chub, Roach and Dace and haven't really noticed a decline in sport, however nowadays I nearly always fish in the last 4 or 5 hours up until the light fails and having taken early retirement I'm lucky enough to be able to choose to go whenever conditions look good.
The days of having to restrict my fishing to weekends because of work commitments has thankfully long gone LOL...

Keith

 

[peterjg]

I also think that river fishing has declined. I used to fish the Colne and the Thames a lot - both those rivers generally fish poorly though there are exceptions in certain stretches. Cormorants are seen daily, signal crayfish, too clear water, canoeists, etc certainly do not help. The EA says there are lots of fish in the Thames - nonsense!

Only 18 months ago I moved and started to fish the Kennet so I have no historical first hand knowledge of how it fished previously. However; according to the bailiffs they can cycle miles between anglers - says it all really. There are definately some good fish still in the Kennet but the fishing is not easy.

I would say also that the canals are not as prolific as they once were.

The main problems are cormorants and water quality re chemicals?

 

[The bad one]

The Ribble been exceptional this last summer for all species except big chub. Not seen as many silver fish in it for a very long time. Been a very good spawning year as well, so the future is more likely to be assured through it.
Starting to quieten down now as the silvers migrate to the lower river, but they be back come the spring in greater numbers. Looking on the Hydro it’s a bit bumpy last few days, needs a settled dry spell then the big chub will come on the munch with abandonment. Happy days are here again Happy day……………

 

[maverick 7]

There seems to be so much against river fishing these days like some of you have already pointed out. There is the cormorants, more rain than usual, clearer water, less anglers on the banks...subscribing to less food for the fish to eat and thrive, more crayfish etc etc.
I don't know, maybe I'm just looking for excuses but there was times maybe about 8 years ago when the Scrap Yard at Newark was absolutely full of barbel and fishing was exciting to say the least.....don't know where they have all gone now, hence the reason I haven't been there for a couple or so years now.
Then there was Crankley Point on the Trent, Topcliffe (Black Bull) on the Swale, Retford on the Idle, The Severn, Teme and the Don....all producing fish still I know but there have been times not too long ago when all of those waters was unbelievably prolific....not any more. Perhaps with the exception of Topcliffe (which is my personal favourite stretch of any river) as I believe it now belongs to a syndicate and I haven't fished it since they took over that stretch. I fail to see more than one car in their car park every single time I go over that bridge....and I don't think the absence of anglers on a long term basis does any good at all for river fishing.
I remember a few years back on the Teme when I had over 20 barbel on a scorching hot day.....and that included a 2 hour rest in the pub cooling down....I don't expect that every time I go fishing but I struggle to get a couple of fish these days in the same waters...and so does everybody else that are on the bank at the same time as me too.
I suspect there is some kind of a "recession" as far as fishing is concerned going on in the rivers.....but that of course is just my opinion.

Maverick

 

[sam vimes]

Then there was Crankley Point on the Trent, Topcliffe (Black Bull) on the Swale, Retford on the Idle, The Severn, Teme and the Don....all producing fish still I know but there have been times not too long ago when all of those waters was unbelievably prolific....not any more. Perhaps with the exception of Topcliffe (which is my personal favourite stretch of any river) as I believe it now belongs to a syndicate and I haven't fished it since they took over that stretch. I fail to see more than one car in their car park every single time I go over that bridge....and I don't think the absence of anglers on a long term basis does any good at all for river fishing.

Go to the Leeds water at Topcliffe and you'll often find it packed, too packed for my liking. The Black Bull stretch in its heyday was often quieter. Go to the upstream Cundall stretch (Lodge or Farm, I can never remember which is which), it's frequently packed to the gunnels.

Here's a club match result from Sunday the 7th of December:

NORTHALLERTON DAC MATCH
RIVER SWALE
(Report by Kevin Weighell)
River low for first 3hours then came up 2ft
1st Fred Hardcastle 54-11-0
18 chub wag and magg
2nd Paul Kozyra 50-7-0
18 chub wag and magg
3rd Ian Swarbeck 33-10-0
13 chub on bread
4th Lee Furness 27-10-0
9 chub
5th Pete Miller 23-8-0
7 chub
(14 double figures)

To my mind, that's up there with the best winter match weights as I've ever seen on the Swale. It may have changed significantly compared to your favourable memories. That does not mean that it's significantly worse. The Swale changes with every big flood. Going to the same places every time, year on year, and expecting similar results often doesn't work very well. A peg (or stretch) that's generally considered a waste of time now is only one flood away from being a flyer.

 

[peter crabtree]

Here's a club match result from Sunday the 7th of December:

NORTHALLERTON DAC MATCH
RIVER SWALE
(Report by Kevin Weighell)
River low for first 3hours then came up 2ft
1st Fred Hardcastle 54-11-0
18 chub wag and magg
2nd Paul Kozyra 50-7-0
18 chub wag and magg
3rd Ian Swarbeck 33-10-0
13 chub on bread
4th Lee Furness 27-10-0
9 chub
5th Pete Miller 23-8-0
7 chub
(14 double figures)

Funny how the often maligned match anglers can do it innit?
Same goes for any river in the country.
Put the time in and know what you're doing...

Fantastic weights there Sam.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

Because i have moved around a bit over the years and had a break from fishing from mid 90s until a few years ago it is rare that i have fished anywhere recently that i knew well from past sessions say the 1980s or early 1990s. So its hard to judge when you are comparing apples withy oranges. I wish i could fish more of those places with memories attached - but they are mostly too far away and the general advice is "never go back".

Earlier this year i had a few days on the Stour at Throop and it seemed a lot harder with many fewer chub and barbel caught than in the 80s or 90s at least - infact from those i spoke to the consensus was it had got a lot harder. Similar tale on Wensum too i think, but doubt that neither river is "impossible".

Some midlands rivers like the Trent have had a barbel and chub explosion (so i read) whereas they were roach and dace bagging waters in the 80s. The lower Thames has some very large bream shoals now, so i read, whereas these were highly localised back in the 80s.

Although there are broad general changes affecting whole regions like increased predation and improving water quality there also seem to be species-specific population cycles that go round and each river is potentially very different it seems. Just hope i can get back on the Wensum when the glut of huge roach last seen in the mid 1970s returns there...

 

[The bad one]

there also seem to be species-specific population cycles that go round and each river is potentially very different it seems.

And therein is the answer! Rivers like stills go in cycles and given the spring/summer weather over the last 10 years until this year, it's been C*ap, spawning and survival rates have been very poor on many rivers. Therefore the stocks have been suppressed through it. What we need is a run of reasonable spring/summers to build the stocks. Where there will be a problem is where there's something fundamentally wrong with the river and unable to become a sustainable entity on its own. There the EA needs to step in and aid it with pump priming stockings and discover the reasons for its inability to become a sustainable river.

 

[bennygesserit]

Would heavy floods be a factor - washing away spawn or fry , we seem to have had those quite a bit over the last couple of years.

 

[andreagrispi]

I have had some tremendous sessions over the last 2-3 years off the Trent, Swale, Nidd, Derwent and Wharfe - barbel, big roach, big chub and big perch have featured, sometimes in ton plus catches.........most of these sessions have been from November until March. You can't have favourite swims or favourite techniques - you need to take a reasonable amount of gear to fish differing methods but not too much so you can up sticks and move to another area. Read the water and conditions, but also remain in tune with your 6th sense. Some may call me lucky, but consistency overrides that opinion.

 

[no-one in particular]

Rivers do change, one I fished a lot slowly declined. I struggle on it these days. I used to get some nice river tench but, I have not had one for about 6 years now. And chub seem to have all but disappeared although I still get the occasional baby.

On the other hand another river I fish that is part of the same system has improved at about the same rate as the other has declined. This river had a bad black spot problem once and it disappeared. However, the last couple of roach I caught from it had signs of it again.

I think its good advice Mav- keep changing and searching until you find something. Although I have one good winter swim where I am almost guaranteed some chub, I still leave it and try other swims and still go back to the declining river every now to see if its going to come up again. I tend to give a swim a hour and if there is no sign of a fish I move; and I go back to swims that previously had no fish every so often. you just never know with rivers.

 

[sam vimes]

I'm afraid that what I see of many river anglers these days is that a large proportion don't really seem to know what they are doing. I'm not afraid to include myself in that outside of my various venue and method comfort zones. One thing for sure is that many of the lads that persist with the river match scene really do know what they're about. Unfortunately, they are generally an ageing bunch with little new blood following and learning from them. I love taking the time to watch them when I can. However, I suspect that watching them, understanding or attempting to emulate what they do, and exactly how they do it, is far too much like hard work for many. The prospect of slowly building a swim, sometimes over the course of many hours, is not instant enough for many people.

Unless you keep a good eye on the river club's match results, or know plenty of good river anglers that keep you informed of how they are doing, it's very easy to believe that rivers are going down the pan. I'm sure that some rivers won't be what they once were, but reality may not be anywhere near as bad as you might think.

 

[fruitowl]

could it just be that more people go to commercials. take tackle to side of lake nice clear pegs, set up and fishing no trudging through fields down steep banks and guaranteed to catch fish of some sort also commies offer snack bars, toilets, bait shops ect.
when finished pack up stuff in car in a couple of mins and mostly nice and clean.
convenient and less hassle and no advance planning needed where on a river you have to plan in advance bait ect

 

[no-one in particular]

I'm afraid that what I see of many river anglers these days is that a large proportion don't really seem to know what they are doing. I'm not afraid to include myself in that outside of my various venue and method comfort zones. One thing for sure is that many of the lads that persist with the river match scene really do know what they're about. Unfortunately, they are generally an ageing bunch with little new blood following and learning from them. I love taking the time to watch them when I can. However, I suspect that watching them, understanding or attempting to emulate what they do, and exactly how they do it, is far too much like hard work for many. The prospect of slowly building a swim, sometimes over the course of many hours, is not instant enough for many people.

Unless you keep a good eye on the river club's match results, or know plenty of good river anglers that keep you informed of how they are doing, it's very easy to believe that rivers are going down the pan. I'm sure that some rivers won't be what they once were, but reality may not be anywhere near as bad as you might think.

Some good points although I think there is a difference. Match anglers have one swim to fish so, learning the art of building up a swim is a must. But a pleasure angler can choose and mix it up a bit. My experience of rivers tells me there are whole stretches of rivers that can be more or less fish-less. You could quite easily be in a stretch or a swim where you will struggle all day no matter your skill. Even free roaming fish like roach still I think stick to one stretch. Bigger fish tend to find there spots. However, even when you have found these spots, they change. Water levels, seasons, food availability all change and so do the swims and even whole stretches on occasions which may be what Maverick is experiencing...
I have never made up my mind whether it is best to stick to one swim or move about and try say 4 or 5 swims in a session. I often think if I had just stuck with the first swim all day and built it up with patience, "would it have have come on at one point". But, I have often found if I have no sign of fish in the first hour, it is likely it will be the same 5 hours later.
So, I believe that because I move a lot, it affords me too really get to know large stretches of rivers quickly, seasonal changes, fish lies, species distribution, hot spots, dead spots etc and detect when these change. On balance I think I can expect to catch more fish with this knowledge. I even change rivers in an afternoon on occasions.

 

[sam vimes]

a pleasure angler can choose and mix it up a bit.

They most certainly can, but so many don't. They turn up, pick a method, plonk down in a peg and either catch, or they don't. It borders on little more than pot luck. Whilst I mentioned the match types as an example, I wasn't singling them out as the only beacon. It was more about highlighting that those that work at it, and are of of a decent standard, often get their rewards.

Roving can pay great dividends, however, I know from experience that some that choose to fish that way can be far too quick to give up if they don't get instant results. Provided they haven't really (over)filled a swim in with bait, I rather enjoy following an impatient rover into a swim. There's nothing better than knocking a load of fish out of a swim they prematurely gave up on! They can get an equally bad impression of the state of a river as the more sedentary type that fails to work a swim hard or well enough.

The bottom line for me is that the numbers of river anglers appears to be dropping steadily. What's worse is the numbers of really good river anglers, river match specialist or not, is tailing off even more quickly. Because that's the case, it's very easy to believe that the quality of river fishing is much worse than it actually is. The more specialist types that fish rivers usually don't shout too loudly as to how well they are getting on. They could be landing large fish, or huge numbers of fish, and most people will never get to hear about it. Poor anglers or poor angling is not often rewarded on the rivers where it might be on the more densely stocked stillwaters.

If ten people tell me that a water is rubbish, but one reports good results, provided he's not a Walter Mitty type, I want to know what he's doing. I'm not inclined to listen to the ten naysayers if the good results can be trusted, witnessed or replicated.

 

[Hugh Bailey]

Yes - Agree completely.

An earlier poster complained about the lack of fish in the Thames. In my experience this year, and from other I have read, it seems that, certainly for silverfish, the lower river has not been so good for a long time. They are not always in the same swims, but they are certainly there in very good numbers and quality.

I've had days this year where they have literally been crawling up the rod, and then same swim, same conditions, couple of weeks apart, much more difficult - move and you seem to find them somewhere else.

 

[andreagrispi]

I'm currently reading catching big chub by Peter Stone - a superb book and very thought provoking it is too. Peter sites repeated examples of times when the river appeared devoid of fish, in which he knew was incorrect. He would change and adapt his approach (fishing a fixed bait rather than continue on the float or shallow his rig by 4 foot or alter his feeding approach or use a smaller hook or thinner line ect ect ect) these changes sometimes resulted in him going home with 10-15 chub to his name. A river or lake can appear dead, subtle changes can be like flicking a switch.