This is what our beloved sport has come to

[gerry h]

I have just had a look at this weeks ATimes and cant believe,what is on the back page.

A T COLUMNIST MAKES HISTORY AT KHV HITWATER

What kind of a reflection on our sport is this ,obviously intense fishing activity on a water where the fish i would think could be in distress if retained.

Is the fishes welfare the last consideration these days ?catch at all costs?

 

[keora]

You're right, the AT is reluctant to criticise overstocked fisheries suffering from KHV.

 

[gerry h]

Surely these places should be left to recover ,and not get hammered

 

[Fred Bonney]

It's all to do with money, nothing to do with our sport./forum/smilies/sad_smiley.gif

 

[John H Member of THE C.S.G.. & The A.T.]

I become ever more disillusioned with each passing week/month.

My club has now gone down the same route. Members complain about the poor state the fish are in yet week after week the same fish are crammed into keep-nets.

Like all creatures fish don't do well if stressed. Put into already overstocked unnatural waters and being constantly in - out, in - out can hardly be said to be a stress free life. The more stressed they become, the more they are susceptible to disease.

Instead of calling these places 'fishing' waters they should be re named 'catching/bagging' waters. No place in 'angling' IMHO.

Rant over.

 

[michael weedon]

I'm with you on that one John. It's very sad that our great sport has been 'taken over' by the need to make money, whatever the cost tothe fish.As you say, 'No place in angling'.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)]

In many of these commercial fisheries, its not a matter of outwitting a wild creature in its natural environment. It's all about mugging the poor things using the only food they can get, as well as their own faeces.

I'm not against commercial waters. Some of them can be made into superb fisheries, but customers do need to understand that they can have blank days.

And John, you are right to rant.

 

[John H Member of THE C.S.G.. & The A.T.]

To my ever lasting shame I actually fished one of my clubs newly developed waters a few weeks ago. (15-20ft flood banks of the Wear are a little difficult on crutches) Thankfully the local cormorants seem to have been getting fat and all I had was one small tench, lost a float and went home.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Did youcram it into a keepnet then John?

;-)

Sometimes we should be very careful for what we wish. If the massive majority of anglers in the UK, ie, those who fish commercial waters, decided to listen to your advice they would abandon the money-making puddles and come-a-rubbing shoulders with you, claiming that space you treasure so much.

Is that what you really want?

These guys are happy with 8 yards swims so long as they can pile in the bait and catch. Boy there'd be a few who'd changed their tune if the AT decided to promote river angling to the masses. Of course, they'd be demanding the EA stocked lots of carp in the Trent, Dove and Ouse. They'd do really well in the Severn and Teme. Already doing okay in the Thames, Neneand Avon...

Better throw in a few tonnes of orfe and ide because they feed well in the winter. Of course the farmershad betterallow car access along the banks so the place is more accessible and let's stick in some platforms, should we?

All encroaching branches and trees will need removing straight away.

I reckon it would be fantastic news for those who ain't so good on their legs anymore and sitting shoulder-to-shoulder is a small price to pay, surely. By the way, night fishing will be a no-no. All pegs reserved Saturday, Sunday and Wednesdays for matches, too.

Well? Is that what you want?

Each to their own, I say. Live and let live. These guys never criticise us or demand we change our fishing, do they? Odd that. Then again we've been great custodians of the waterway in their absence, haven't we? Hang on, where are the fish we're protecting so haughtily? I mean fish, not barbel? Seen a roach letely? Or a dace? Catching less bream in recent seasons are we?

Of course we're all so proud of our ACA life memberships...

What do you mean you ain't a member? Thought you were a guardian...?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

I'm not exactly sure of what your point is here Bob with regard to the original question/statement.

Do you condone fishing venues that are in the throws of a KHV outbreak?


As for:

"Seen a roach letely"

Yes, by the hundreds on my local river. I've had 3 over 2 pounds in the last month.

"Or a dace?"

Again, yes, and catching them upto 15 ounces last season, and two at just on a pound this season so far.

"Catching less bream in recent seasons are we?"

Again, no, I had one double and another of 9 pounds 6 ounces three weekends ago but then my local rivers tend not to be too over-fished I must admit.

I too believe in live-and-let-live, I go to my local 'commercial' whenever I want to try out a new rig, bait or method, but I certainly don't condone fishing a venue that currently has KHV. surely it is better to leave the poor fish alone and stress-free?

 

[Greg Whitehead]

Good ranting Bob. Nothing wrong with carp in the Nene. Only time I get miffed with 'em is when I hook one and think I've latched into a British record barbel! That's always a bit of a let down!

Cancelling all those festivals on White Acres was never going to happen. We've been warning people about KHv for years but the message obviously didn't get through fast enough for all those fisheries that have been decimated. Fact is they're businesses that need to keep running whatever.

And you can bet your life it's in our rivers already. Just have to hope stock levels are too low for it to ever become a problem. Or hopethey all die offif you don't approve of river carp of course!!!!

 

[Bob Roberts]

Peter,

Ever consider it might be a case of 'I'm alright Jac'? You know, I haven't caught a single bream from the Trent this season while barbel fishing. Time was when I could fish my local rivers and catch quality roach and dace, too...

Bit harder these days.

No, I don't think it's right to target fish 'recovering' (is that actually possible?) from KHV. I thought they either had it and died or they didn't have it. Unfortunately I haven't a clue what the story was about because I've been out of the country for the past three weeks and the thread didn't shred any light either, so I take it this is just another round of knocking Angling Times or knocking commercial fisheries, or maybe just anglers who fish there.

Harrumph! No place in angling these buggers, need a bit of steel up 'em, I say. Wasn't like this in our day, eh?

Well, there's some complete rubbish spouted about commercials. Most of it by anglers with no experience of them whatsoever.

Sorry Ron, but: "In many of these commercial fisheries, its not a matter of outwitting a wild creature in its natural environment. It's all about mugging the poor things using the only food they can get, as well as their own faeces."

So what is the natural environment of a fish that is born on a farm and stocked into a fishery as soon as it's nicely eating pellets? What about those fish that are spawned in there? Yes, fish do eat the only food they can get. Since when was that a shock? Or different to anywhere else? It's not like they have supermarkets, is it? As for carp eat shit, well! All carp do it. Ever fished with tiger nuts? How much goodness do you think a fish takes from its food on the first pass through? And why do roach do so well in these shit-filled waters?

Want a real horror story? Cowsregurgitate their food and eat it again! Then we eat them. Dirty B*$t&rds!!!!! Sheep eat their own droppings. Rabbits do. As for what bacon eats...

Bacon and eggs, mmmm, what a fine pair of healthy eaters! But most of us still shop at TESCOs or Sainsbury's, or wherever.

"I fished a newly developed water and thankfully the cormorants have been getting fat..." That's rather a non-productive, sustainable solution then, eh?

As for, "customers need to have blank days". Why? Is that like football fans need goaless draws? Or boxing fans need to see morereasoned debating, perhaps even a spot of mediationbetween opponents and a bit less throwing punches? Hell, lets introduce anger management into training schedules.

You'll be suggesting we all abandon watercraft next and just fish random swims. That way we can get to enjoy blanking more often. We could even go really hardcore and fish swimming pools.

"It's all to do with money, nothing to do with our sport". Really? Perhaps nothing to do with your sport, Fred, but certainly a lot to do with the average angler's sport and that of the tackle industry. Or am I missing some vital point here? Is catching carp, or orfe, or whatever from a commercial fishery not fishing? Of course it is. It's what the vast majority of participants in angling do. They aren't the minority at odds with the majority...

You know, I really would like to see some of those who are so against the commercial fisheries go along and sit between two decent anglers - just so they might learn the error of their ways and how easy it is not to shoot these fish in a bucket.

Come on, it's nowt to do with commercials is it? This is just another attack on the papers.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Commercial fisheries are a great way to introduce kids and new comers and even people coming back to fishing after a lengthy break to the joys of fishing.

Yes, they are a money making scheme, but it is also in the interest of the fishery owners to ensure that there stock is respected and looked after and that the paying customers get what they paid for and that is to catch fish.

You also have the added benefit for disabled anglers or elderly anglers that where they are fishing is generally not to far from where they parked there car.

I agree that the use of common sense should be paramount between fishery owners and the anglers fishing them.

We all have several options available to us when it comes to fishing, if you don't agree with how a fishery is run don't support them, if you don't like how a club is run don't join them, if you don't like fishing rivers don't fish them, if you don't like the way people fish a certain method don't use them.

Tight Lines

Steph /forum/smilies/devil_smiley.gif

 

[Fred Bonney]

"It's all to do with money, nothing to do with our sport".

My understanding of this of this feature, is that a water suffering with fish losses, has restocked with fish that may not be affected by the virus.

It also invited the press along to push the fishery.

I just wonder in their push to advertise the fishery, if any consideration was given to the possibility that maybe the virus, like some are known to do, mutates into something that may affect the new stock.

Or, is that just a risk we take in our fisheries?

Until, perhaps one day,during seriousfloods, which apparently we will get,they escape into into our river systems, to damage our roach,bream and dace stocks?

If they haven't done already!

Just a thought, from somebody who does fisha commercial fishery on occasions.

Perhaps, that isa vitalpoint you may have missed, Bob.

 

[Bob Roberts]

And there's my point. Haven't had a bream all season...

Why? Probably down to the floods, but can we be so sure?

Fisheries are businesses. Well run clubs operate as a business. Those that aren't go bust or have to give up their waters. Ask Sheffield and District. Ask Doncaster and District. Barnsley have given up even trying to manage some of their water so their members suffer through their leaders' lack of forsight.

Meanwhile commercial fisheries on the doorstep spring up all the time.

Commercial fisheries are no more immoral than put-and-take trout fisheries where the fish caught are simply a commodity. Fish reared on farms, tatty fins and tails, so a few die. We can always replace them. But trout anglers who fish unnaturally stocked reservoirs are allowed to look down their noses at those who fish with poles and pellets.

On the other hand I'd hate to see a politically correct AT, wouldn't you? Nor would I ever want to see one that sneers at those who fish in 'lesser' ways than I might prefer.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Bob,

Maybe you are right about being alright Jack, but then in the South things are rather different.

Is the local Roach and Dace fishing in your area a natural result or do you have clubs and societies at work? For the past few years the local clubs and the Roach Club have worked tirelessly to improve the Roach fishing on the Avon and the Stour.

I often wonder if the proliferation of Carp and Barbel fishing masks the real Roach and Dace and Chub fishing in many parts of the Country. After all, the sort of tackle that we are using for those two species is really not conducive to catching Roach and Dace(?)

I don't subscribe to the usual 'let's knock the Angling Press' brigade, to be totally honest, I don't buy the weeklies because they don't cater for my style of fishing, but they have a target market and that is fine by me.

I also think that the commercial fisheries are a grand place for youngsters to learn the beginnings of their angling careers. It is a lot easier to teach children on venues where they will catch something, rather than on the more difficult rivers in my area. so they have a real place in the learning curve in my opinion. As I said earlier, I use them to try out new baits, methods or ideas before going onto the rivers.


That said, I also think that responsible anglers will avoid fishing those venues that are suffereing from KHV to allow the surviving fish to recover in peace.

 

[Bill Maitland 2]

When i read threads like this after being away from the site for a while, it makes me not wont to bother going fishing at all!!!

Bob, maybe you should have stayed in india

 

[Bill Maitland 2]

Bob, you're a good ambassador for fishing, but you sound like Victor Meldrew sometimes!

 

[John H Member of THE C.S.G.. & The A.T.]

keep-net? No Bob, I'm one of those holier than thou types who doesn't use one.

Sorry no half page sermon as to why not either

"I fished a newly developed water and thankfully the cormorants have been getting fat..." That's rather a non-productive, sustainable solution then, eh?

No Bob, it was just a throw away comment, after all it's been my $loody money that's gone into paying for the fish to feed the cormorants.

Again Bob it seems no one but you can have an opinion an anything.

Don't know about being like Victor Meldrew, more like that Richard Madeley guy from the Richard and Judy show.

If you want to catch roach and dace (and chub, gudgeon & grayling) from a river (not too many bream though but they go to over 10lb) travel north young man.

Couldn't guarantee you wouldn't catch a barbel though.

 

[Greg Whitehead]

I didn't know AT was invited to White Acres to cover their festivals Fred! I do know they've had a KHv outbreak and that they decided to continue with their festivals, which we reported on (over the phone I suspect) and which Ringer made history in the process of winning.

What would FMers have done if it was their business with its back to the wall? Shut up shop? Let some competitors fish on lakes with barely no fish in them? Bob's right, some terrible toilet gets written about commercials on FMthreads. Match fishing is about carp these days and lots of carp are now carrying KHv. That's the reality we're all facing whether we fish those venues or not, but without these fisheries angling would be buried. Fact!

If you want to get pissed with anyone get pissed at Defra. After all, if it was a disease of cows or pigs they'd have put bolts through their heads and compensated the businesses faster than you can say jumping jack (well actually, knowing Defra, they'd probablyhave spent years trying to get out of paying compensation while thebusinesses in questionwent bust)! But because its fish and fishing, not consumers eating, it would appear to be okay to allow the disease to continue to run its course without being effectively controlled. And how do you stop the import of live fish, legal and illegal? We are an island and that would nip the problem in the bud if run alongside an eradication programme. Why isn't that happening?

And Gerry, fish are two things these days: a valuable indicator of the health of the aquatic environment and a commodity. Anything else is just sentimentalism that fishery owners and the sport can't really afford. In short, conservation and making profit are all that matters. And talking about 'conservation' in the same sentence as 'commercial fishery' would simplybe afarce! Fishery owners have to meet the requirement of the Animal Welfare Bill but who is ultimately responsible for the fact that KHv is running rampage around the UK? Not a fishery manager like Clint. He's never illegally imported dodgy specimen carp from the continent. He'll have followed the EA's Section 30 stocking procedures every time he has stocked fish.