2lb Roach

[Philip]

Is it just me or does there seem to be more of these about of late ?

Both rivers and stillwaters seem to be throwing them up more frequently than for some time.

Not based on anything scientific just based on news reports and news shared by people on here.

Are we going through a big Roach revival ? and if so why...

 

[peterjg]

Could it be that anglers are now appreciating just how rare a 2lb roach is so they are being reported? Has the carp bubble burst and are roach being targeted instead?

 

[Philip]

I do get the impression more people are targeting them from a specimen point of view.

 

[robcourt82]

I think its the cycle of nature combined with a helping human hand. Every species has its good times and bad times, in 'recent years there has been a barbel boom and I suspect this has had an adverse effect on roach. Now that predation seems to be taking its toll on those it seems that the smaller species are thriving in the rivers.
As for Stillwater, the carp bubble doesn't seem like its going to burst. There are simply more and more people filling in every bit of water they can find with pellets particles and boilies. It is my guess that the old school type angler is getting fed up with the new school type carp angler and is moving across to other specialist types of fishing and capitalising on the big roach which is a by product of the carp intended feed.

 

[steve2]

There could be but there also appear to be quite a lot of hybrids being reported as roach. My club website as catches of 2lb roach hybrids reported weekly and 3lb hybrids reported as roach. I also know of waters where Ide are being reported as roach.
Hopefully the fact that they have left alone because of the carp fishing will mean they will make a come back. I have always wanted to catch a 2lb roach from a river, never have even when I regularly fished the Hampshire Avon. I got stuck at 1-14.

 

[108831]

There doesn't seem more around here,even though I've had three recently(a major result for me),that's more down to venue choice and working at it,most venues don't throw up many over a pound,certain rivers have always given a chance of a 2lber,pellets are a factor in roach sizes on barbel venues,the Severn has always had them,not so common on the Trent,today,I've no idea,the D.Stour has fished well for them the last couple of years apparently,but I feel roach are a species that are very prone to cycles and numbers,sizes etc vary according to these,interesting topic and it would be nice to know if venues have thrown up larger numbers...

 

[Philip]

As I mentioned its an observation not based on anything scientific just on news and reports I see here and elsewhere...its quite possible there are not actually anymore about than before but perhaps as I think it was Steve that mentioned there are just more people fishing for them.

I am not sure. I get the feeling it may be a combination of things. As you say it could be a natural cycle as well.

 

[theartist]

I'd deem anything over say 1lb 8oz as big so don't get too down if you've never Had a '2' they really aren't as common as the reports would suggest, it's a bit like 15lb+ Barbel , they're in the mags every week but most folk would be happy with just one.

Like many species they are cyclical, I can only speak of rivers but I know a few where sadly a 2lb roach is a now thing of the past, whereas others have come on strong and are producing and some are still working that cycle with a new generation getting there slowly.

 

[steve2]

A 2lb Roach as always been seen as the pinnacle of roach fishing. There were rivers in the 1960/70s where 2lb Roach were common. Then they died out it seems almost everywhere due in many cases to over abstraction and pollution. Even my local stream at that time had Roach approaching 3lbs now a 12oz fish is classed as big. Perch also disappeared around this time due to disease.
There as been another large perch cycle since but this judging by my local rivers may also be changing again. So fish population it would appear go in cycles.
But I do believe that we will never again see those catches of roach of the 60’s and 70’s.

I now class any Roach over a pound as big and to think there was a time when we used fish of that size as livebait.

 

[robtherake]

Stillwater roach in carp waters are thriving. In addition to the extra feed that's going in, I'm led to believe that the roach wax fat on the partially-digested carp excrement. Glossy rabbit tods for bait, anyone?

 

[steve2]

True about stocked carp waters but have to get past the carp to catch them.

 

[theartist]

I'm not as convinced about the 'fat roach benefitting from carp and barbel feed' scenario as others are, many of the roach I have caught have been far from the madding crowds so to speak. Plus there's the roach catches of yesteryear that blow away those of today all of which were a long time before pellets.

Big Roach could be making a comeback compared to a few years ago but we're a long way off how it used to be a few decades back.

 

[robcourt82]

I'm not suggesting pellets and boilies are the be all and end all of big roach as I know of a river that was once well known for big roach that is coming good again pretty much through neglect however when you look at the middle severn/thames and places like linear and linch hill it is, in my opinion at least, a big factor.
The 2 main ways that fish thrive, neglect and or anglers bait.

 

[theartist]

I'm not suggesting pellets and boilies are the be all and end all of big roach as I know of a river that was once well known for big roach that is coming good again pretty much through neglect however when you look at the middle severn/thames and places like linear and linch hill it is, in my opinion at least, a big factor.
The 2 main ways that fish thrive, neglect and or anglers bait.

Yeah I get that mate and the feed is a factor but not as much as you hear spouted on the bank by the barbel anglers sometimes. Often it's the lineage of the roach themselves, and many just wont grow big no matter what they are fed, whereas as others are bull shouldered clonkers who will fill out easy enough on natural baits

 

[Philip]

I'm not as convinced about the 'fat roach benefitting from carp and barbel feed' scenario as others are, many of the roach I have caught have been far from the madding crowds so to speak. Plus there's the roach catches of yesteryear that blow away those of today all of which were a long time before pellets.

Big Roach could be making a comeback compared to a few years ago but we're a long way off how it used to be a few decades back.

Its an interesting point especially for the rivers.

So if its not just bait why did we see these huge catches of big Roach back in the day but not since then ? Its been decades so surely if it was just down to natural cycles we should have already seen one happen by now so what else is it ?

Predetation ? ..Water quality ? ...Agricultural or industrial run off ? ...or was it simply down to more anglers with dodgy scales & less questions asked back then ?

 

[tigger]

or was it simply down to more anglers with dodgy scales & less questions asked back then ?

I reckon that may have a ring of truth to it :w.

 

[peterjg]

Philip, I think the problem is pesticides which the farmers use. They are draining off into our rivers killing the aquatic life which the fish depend on. Does the EA know about this? Yes! Are they impartial and independent? NO! They are a government agency!

 

[robcourt82]

My guess is that certain species just don't get along too well together along with all the environmental issues you mentioned.
I actually believe that there are a lot more big roach in rivers than people realise. I'm not suggesting they're full of 2 pounders but I do think there are bigger fish there that just don't get caught very often and I think that is largely down to water clarity.

 

[theartist]

I'm going to do a thread when I have time about some of the rivers I have fished and how they vary, it's true that something is affecting some whereas as others (Sometimes nearby) are doing really well. Some rivers no longer have streamer weed for example. I have no answers but would love to know rather than keep theorising.

Abstraction is something there's no doubt about, there are river's that have yielded many a big roach of yesteryear that are a trickle nowadays especially in the South/Southeast and East Anglia. Other rivers in more hilly/higher rainfall areas can still suffer but become more spate with winter or even summer floods, this effects the fry. Were taking too much water out the ground in summer.

 

[theartist]

Its an interesting point especially for the rivers.

So if its not just bait why did we see these huge catches of big Roach back in the day but not since then ? Its been decades so surely if it was just down to natural cycles we should have already seen one happen by now so what else is it ?

We can only theorise again but look at the Norfolk scene where the roach used to grow big and many anglers used to fill their boots on rivers like the Wensum, Thurne and Bure, smaller roach are still there and still want to grow big but the cormorants in the 80's 90's and later otters made the chances of big shoals of 2lb'ers slim. Throw in abstraction, bigger floods, saline ingress and god knows what getting washed into these rivers and it makes those natural cycles hard to repeat. I think with all the issues it's hard for any river to stay constant for any species nowadays and this is repeated around the country. Big roach do pop up unexpected, be good to know what rivers have done a 2 in the last 10 years compared to 50 years ago but that info would be quite closely guarded and cryptic especially on the smaller rivers. Some rivers are going through a purple patch and these are where the main catches are coming from. As for dodgy weighings i'd say nothing has changed on that front, I'd say our forebears were equally dishonest/honest(delete as applicable) as we are, it would be wrong to think otherwise.

(Before the usual reply comes from anglers elsewhere in the country about Otters being no problem on our rivers. They have been in East Anglia and it's very hard to catch a Barbel there nowadays anywhere there never mind a haul of 2lb Roach)

Re bait - I see very little bait go in, we trot pellets in summer and everything eats them from Barbel to Gudgeon and Dace, I get through about a pint maybe two. Spending time watching others I see very little feed going in at all and from what is going in I'd be surprised if the competition for feed is not immense. Sure guys spodding for carp or fishing a commy can whack quite a bit in but they know how much competition for the food there is and it will go. Some of the biggest roach and chub I've seen are in no fishing bits - typically! which don't see bait.

It would be interesting to know how much each of us feed in a session? My guess would be not enough in summer and too much in winter. Also how fish grow on pellets compared to bread? Those Frome Roach see a lot of the white stuff and they are 2lb'ers and then some