New Match Reel Recommendations

[markcw]

I don't particularly disagree, and I threw all of those points, and quite a few more, at what was supposedly a Shimano marketing bloke very recently.
The Maggotdrowners Forum - Ultimate match/feeder reel
Whether or not they supply a spare spool has always been hit and miss. I've bought Shimanos that have had three spools supplied. Then there are those with just one. It's been that way for years. Other manufacturers, including Daiwa, are just as inconsistent in this respect. My biggest bugbear with regards to Shimano spare spools is when they do supply a spare that's a different material to the original. I hate that with a passion.

As I've already said, there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons to criticize Shimano. There's no need whatsoever to make anything up, or exaggerate for effect. I've no qualms whatsoever with anyone buying an alternative. However, slating Shimano because none of their reels come with spare spools, have single handles, have large diameter spools or have an anti-reverse switch, is patently and demonstrably untrue. It would be akin to me saying all Diawa reels have a poorly executed auto-bail, dismal drag, horribly dated style, and poor build quality, because that's my genuine experience of the 1657DM.

Sam,you must have had a rogue 1657DM, the one I have has been going strong after 25+ years, I also have 6 Shimano baitrunners in their various forms, aero etc, also a Shimano Nasci which I got about 3 years ago,and seems different to the current model that is in the shops,
I have no complaints of any of the reels, I like the look of the Shakespeare agility but have not heard any feedback on it

 

[trotter2]

That's always been the case. One thing I often see is people complaining that the modern Stradic GTM-RC isn't as good as the original Japanese Stradic GTM. They see a white reel, with double handles, a similar name and it gives them certain expectations. It's an entirely valid point, though there are a few things about the newer reels that are improvements. However, most of those that complain fail to recognise the relative costs and place in the reel hierarchy. The original Stradic GTM was well in excess of £100 twenty five years ago. It was the top of the range rear drag reel of the time (until the Stradic X GTM appeared). A modern reel of comparable quality should be at least £150, probably more. The reality is that the latest Stradic GTM-RC generally sells for less than £100 and is only top of the rear drag range by virtue of Shimano completely binning the reels that were more expensive (Twinpowers, Biomasters). Even with tech improvements and manufacturing efficiencies taken into account, it's unrealistic to expect a reel costing less than £100 now to be better than a reel that was more than £100 twenty five years back.

That's a valid point Sam but one I don't necessarily agree with.
All fishing tackle has come down in price compared to what your money purchased 25 years ago .
If you compare rods for example what cost you over £100 in those days you could most probably buy better today for less than £50.
And its the same with a lot of things fishing tackle is no exception.

 

[tigger]

That's a valid point Sam but one I don't necessarily agree with.
All fishing tackle has come down in price compared to what your money purchased 25 years ago .
If you compare rods for example what cost you over £100 in those days you could most probably buy better today for less than £50.
And its the same with a lot of things fishing tackle is no exception.

Not too sure about that Trotter. I have old rods that are as good as any of the top of the range rods out today, there's no way you've get a rod to compare to them for less than two or three hundred notes today.

 

[sam vimes]

Sam,you must have had a rogue 1657DM, the one I have has been going strong after 25+ years,

I appreciate that you, and others like them. Unfortunately, there's absolutely nothing you could say that will convince me that they are anything other than a vastly overpriced antique with a trick (the auto bail) up their sleeve. I actually picked a new one up in a shop fairly recently, just to see if I was being a little unfair. Unfortunately, it had all the deficiencies I remembered. Poor build quality and woeful drag. The saving grace was that the bail arm turned over more efficiently because it was new. It staggers me that they've lasted so long in the catalogue. It also staggers me that the SSP is all but £100. I'm pleased you are happy with them, but I never could be.

 

[trotter2]

Not too sure about that Trotter. I have old rods that are as good as any of the top of the range rods out today, there's no way you've get a rod to compare to them for less than two or three hundred notes today.

I would not know about the normark rods Ian so can't comment only had a wiggle of one a few years ago ,it did not feel out special to be honest.
But what about the acolytes in your own words "blows everything else away" €170
comparable to rods £300 twenty five years ago. I bet there's not that much difference ?
Good tackle has never been cheaper

 

[tigger]

I would not know about the normark rods Ian so can't comment only had a wiggle of one a few years ago ,it did not feel out special to be honest.
But what about the acolytes in your own words "blows everything else away" €170
comparable to rods £300 twenty five years ago. I bet there's not that much difference ?
Good tackle has never been cheaper

I'm talking about my drennan im8 specimen float rod, not the normarks, they came out a number of years later.

Yes, I think the acolytes are the best float rods on the shops shelves right now.

Regarding the normarks, they're the best float rod i've ever used, especially the Avenger. Like with most things every now and again something exceptional is made and imo the normark rods are amongst them .

 

[sam vimes]

That's a valid point Sam but one I don't necessarily agree with.
All fishing tackle has come down in price compared to what your money purchased 25 years ago .
If you compare rods for example what cost you over £100 in those days you could most probably buy better today for less than £50.
And its the same with a lot of things fishing tackle is no exception.

To an extent. I believe a bit different. Modern budget stuff is light years ahead, in both functionality and value, of its equivalent of yesteryear. I feel that things are a bit different when it comes to the top line gear.

With reels, I'd sooner have a brand new Stradic GTM from the 90s than a current brand new Stradic GTM-RC. The only bit of the GTM-RC I'd covet would be the larger diameter spools.

When it comes to rods, it depends on how far back you go for the rod you want to compare. You may be able to better a £100 rod from 25+ years ago with a well chosen £50 rod now. Thinking about it, I reckon I probably paid around the £100 mark for my Daiwa Tommy Pickering Matchwinners in the early-mid 90s. I have my doubts that there's a new £50 rod (excluding discount bargains) that I'd take over the Daiwa, though I'm not overly keen on the ring reel seats and what I think may have been Dynaflow rings. I'd probably agree that the standard of average gear is better for less money. Also, the woeful budget gear I remember just doesn't exist these days

However, I believe you'd struggle to better a genuine top line rod of 25 years ago with the vast majority of rods currently available new. There's good reason as to why the likes of Carbotecs, Normarks and old top line Daiwas are still achieving such high prices on the secondary market. Yes, there's undoubtedly a rarity and collectability premium, but most of these rods are being bought to be used. That tells a story in itself.

 

[trotter2]

Unfortnatly with the pickering I would agree ,but its more down to the fact that they don't make rods like that anymore with a tip action stick float tip. It not the fact they can't its just they don't.
If they did you may get one for £50

Those carbotec and normarks would be about £650 in today's money.
Don't think anyone in there right mind would pay that when an acolyte is €170.

 

[sam vimes]

Unfortnatly with the pickering I would agree ,but its more down to the fact that they don't make rods like that anymore with a tip action stick float tip. It not the fact they can't its just they don't.
If they did you may get one for £50

Those carbotec and normarks would be about £650 in today's money.
Don't think anyone in there right mind would pay that when an acolyte is €170.

I was being fairly careful to avoid mentioning the spliced tip versions, simply because there's virtually no chance of getting a modern variation on the spliced tip theme. Also, I'd happily lump the Matchwinner Waggler into the same comparison anyway.

When it comes to the Acolytes, I'd struggle to recommend another current rod over them for river work, including the odd rod that costs more. It wouldn't be as clear cut when it comes to stillwater waggler or in comparison to some older rods. Where the Acolytes do score very highly is in regards to weight. They are phenomenally light in hand. The only rods I have that come close are Normarks. Ultimately, I believe that the Acolytes are a bit of a bargain. Being current, easily available and having spares available makes them a damned good choice. However, I'm not entirely convinced that the finish or fittings are quite up to the standard of the very best. Though I have my own theory on the reported Acolyte breakages, and the three I own have been fine, I wonder whether they are a little less than robust enough for some.

 

[S-Kippy]

The Acolytes are phenomenally light but to achieve that the blanks surely must be very thin walled....and that has got to be something to do with the high incidence of breakage. I've broken a few rods in my time...nearly all Drennans btw which makes you think, but I've never broken the butt section of a rod like Jerry recently did to his Acolyte. I've a Daiwa GF53 that must be 30+ years old that has had some serious hammer and I reckon I could run that into a wall and it wouldn't break. It's not that heavier than modern rods either.

I'm almost too scared of breaking my damned Acolyte to use it.....same as with my Matchpro Ultralight.

I find it a bit odd that a rod with a reputation for breaking continues to sell so well.

 

[trotter2]

I think the reports of breakages have quieted down . Hopefully they have got it sorted once and for all.
It was indeed such a shame it happened in the first place.
It's such a thin walled blank ,paper thin. Initially it put me off getting one for a while with all the reports of breakages. Been ok so far.

They has been some decent reviews on the cadence rods even less money just over the €100 mark.
It's going to be a hard act to follow and I would like to see one first.

 

[nottskev]

If I were in the market for a new match-sized reel, which I'm not, as I think I'll have to start rotating reels to make sure they all get some use, I'd actually be going for an old one.

I've tried Daiwa's – fine reels, obviously, but not for me, although I do like some of their rods. I briefly believed the hype about the massive superiority of front-drag reels- despite never finding the rear-drags I'd been using for decades inadequate in any way, and not liking the front-drag's looks,“gutless” feel and the way the handle always drops down. I think I just needed an excuse to buy something. I soon got fed up with the hassle of changing the spool and all the bling winking at me in the sunshine. And I've tried later Shimano's made outside Japan, and found them just a bit disappointing.

But I find all my fixed-spool, match-sized reel needs, using lines from 2 to 4lb, are met with 3 of these (swapped to single-handle) and a couple of the Aero Match reels from the same series.

They may be superannuated to some, but I've not found better. I like the unmatched build quality, the way they work and the understated look. They weigh a bit more than front-drags, but that's fine. The lightest reels, like the lightest rods, don't always feel the best. The “Fightiin' Drag” lever is one of very few useful reel innovations I've ever met. I'm using ones 20+ years old, and they pass an m.o.t with a local reel service expert every year.


For heavier lines I've got GTM 4010's from the same series; for lighter, a miniature thing called a Shimano Symetre which balances a featherweight 11 or 12' rod. Having tried a couple from the current crop, I'm happy to be a stick in the mud as far as reels go.

 

[S-Kippy]

Fighting drags eh....I'd forgotten quite how much I disliked those. Probably because of all the reels I had featuring those I never once found one that I thought made a blind bit of difference. I suspect that was one of the reasons I moved away from Shimano reels.

 

[tigger]

Fighting drags eh....I'd forgotten quite how much I disliked those. Probably because of all the reels I had featuring those I never once found one that I thought made a blind bit of difference. I suspect that was one of the reasons I moved away from Shimano reels.

That is one feature on the shimano reels that I like. Being positioned where it is it's easy to get at and operate whilst playing a fish. It can also be used exactly like a baitrunner reel.

 

[fishcatcher60]

Some people love a certain type of reel and others hate it.
Funny old game this fishing lark innit.

 

[steve2]

I have a couple of diawa TDRs lovely reels I now use them for lure fishing since I stopped match fishing. One of them needed a replacement handle but at £50 I mended the old. One thing I do like is front drags find them easier to to use than rear drags.

 

[trotter2]

Just been having a look on a past post those Pickering rods weren't cheap Sam.
The cheapest ones came in at 165 book price with the most expensive ones a whopping 275 in 1994 serious money back then.
Giving inflation that makes the flag ship model 382 quid today.

 

[sam vimes]

Just been having a look on a past post those Pickering rods weren't cheap Sam.
The cheapest ones came in at 165 book price with the most expensive ones a whopping 275 in 1994 serious money back then.
Giving inflation that makes the flag ship model 382 quid today.

There were at least four different ranges of rods, which were current at different times, bearing the Tommy Pickering name. IIRC the Pickering Connoisseurs were the really expensive ones. The Tom Pickering Matchwinners were definitely not top of the range (third or fourth iirc) or I wouldn't have been able to have afforded them. There's no way on earth that I paid more than £125 for them brand new.

 

[tigger]

There were at least four different ranges of rods, which were current at different times, bearing the Tommy Pickering name. IIRC the Pickering Connoisseurs were the really expensive ones. The Tom Pickering Matchwinners were definitely not top of the range (third or fourth iirc) or I wouldn't have been able to have afforded them. There's no way on earth that I paid more than £125 for them brand new.

I think the Amorphous Tournament rods (not amorphous whisker) had the most expensive rrp's and if i'm not mistaken shops where forced to keep sales at the rrp price.....same thing applied with drennan rods back then. Once a line of gear is discontinued I think the rrp went out of the window and shops would sell at discounted prices to clear out old stock and replenish their shelves with the latest gear.

 

[sam vimes]

I think the Amorphous Tournament rods (not amorphous whisker) had the most expensive rrp's.

They may well have been in their time, but, as far as I'm aware, they weren't a Tom Pickering model.