Trotting on the Severn. Advice on tatics and equipment.

[tigger]

you come up with some silly posts

the guy wants to learn how to trot on the severn, he wants to get a few bites and take what ever comes along. the severn around bridgnorth is a mixed fishery so as a beginner to stick fishing 3 or 4lb line is ok...if he loses a fish he learns by his mistake, at the worst he will leave a small hook with a light hook length in its mouth, that will cause the fish no harm whatsoever .....he may want to target barbel as he becomes more confident and adept with the method then he can step up his gear...

Leaving hooks in fish is just a hazard of fishing but imo it's far more sensible to try and avoid it happening.
Jason, you say at worst he'll leave a small how and a hooklenght in the fish which will do no harm whatsoever.
Just out of curiosity try sticking a 20's hook into your lip and leave a foot of mono attached and see if it does no harm lol

 

[jasonbean1]

Leaving hooks in fish is just a hazard of fishing but imo it's far more sensible to try and avoid it happening.
Jason, you say at worst he'll leave a small how and a hooklenght in the fish which will do no harm whatsoever.
Just out of curiosity try sticking a 20's hook into your lip and leave a foot of mono attached and see if it does no harm lol

what I'm getting at is a small hook say an 18 or 20 on 10inchs of 2lb mono being left in a barbel's mouth is a lot less harmful than a size 6 barbed boilie hook attached to 3ft of 20lb braid then a swivel then 12lb of mono trailing that from where it cut off on a snag.

because that is the reality of a barbel anglers loosing a fish compared to someone loosing a fish while light float fishing

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Philip.
I have tried to explain to you why TW and most barbel anglers choose to use heavier lines when ledgering vs trotting. (By the way, I have never seen Trefor trotting. Just popping in 4-5 elips and giving swims 20mins or so

Hook and hold situations. Especially when fishing near snags.

I have also tried to explain many barbel hot spots or holding areas are unsuitable for using a float.

Small gaps beween far bank trees, nearside long bush covered holes, fish holding under sunken logs etc etc.

I have also tried to explain how in most cases a fixed bait on the bottom needs less finess tacklewise than trotting through more active fish.

I have also tried to explain that a hooked fish dragging a weight through rocky waters (like the Severn) is more likely to need heavier tackle.

As a general rule a barbel on the float will take longer to land, especially with light tackle.

You originally asked why TW recommended 10- 12lb line.
I have tried to answer that.

Back to general question. Trotting on Severn

I recommended 3.5lb bottom to 5.5lb main line on the Severn but to change up to 7.9lb if barbel are encountered.

I will stick to that for a novice starter. Especially as I would expect most fish encountered would be roach dace and chub.

Personally I would move up to Bewdley, far bank above the bridge and target the roach this time of year.

Anyway. Good Fishing.

 

[tigger]

what I'm getting at is a small hook say an 18 or 20 on 10inchs of 2lb mono being left in a barbel's mouth is a lot less harmful than a size 6 barbed boilie hook attached to 3ft of 20lb braid then a swivel then 12lb of mono trailing that from where it cut off on a snag.

because that is the reality of a barbel anglers loosing a fish compared to someone loosing a fish while light float fishing

Can't argue with that Jason, other than to say I don't fish so heavy as that and use a lighter bottom which cuts out the added burden of a swivel for the fish to drag round.

 

[Philip]

Graham, your still missing the point. The reason is because you are continually trying to anwser a question that was never asked.

You originally asked why TW recommended 10- 12lb line. I have tried to answer that.

Thats the issue right there Graham. You have become fixated with anwsering that question but I never asked it.

The original point I made was that we cant assume the tackle someone uses is always going to be the right tackle everywhere & heavy to some might be light to others & I gave TW as an example of someone who considers 6lb line light which it may well be for his fishing. It might however be ok for someone elses fishing.

I thought it was obvious but clearly not. My fault perhaps for not explaining it correctly.

 

[Philip]

the guy wants to learn how to trot on the severn, he wants to get a few bites and take what ever comes along. the severn around bridgnorth is a mixed fishery so as a beginner to stick fishing 3 or 4lb line is ok...if he loses a fish he learns by his mistake, at the worst he will leave a small hook with a light hook length in its mouth, that will cause the fish no harm whatsoever .....he may want to target barbel as he becomes more confident and adept with the method then he can step up his gear. to say he should gear up for barbel as there is a chance he might catch one is a load of claptrap, let the guy go out catch a few roach, dace, perch and chublets on a pint of maggots and enjoy himself while he learns a new technique. It's alright to have a view but don't impose it as gospel on others1

Totally agree Jason. Good advice for the OP

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

The point was Philip that we were talking about TROTTING.

You raised the point about TW recommended 10/12lb line.

As I advised you, that was for ledgering. I just thought I would enlighten you as to why.

Cheers

 

[Philip]

Fish welfare is always going to be thorny subject when it comes to line and tackle strength. To my mind the mere fact we are fishing for them puts them in danger. In addition “strong” tackle to some will be “weak” to others. An example - Trefor West who knows allot more about Barbel than most recons 6lb ine is still light for them for the fish welfare/prolonged fight reasons. He recommends 10 or 12lb line. The point being where is the acceptable line ? (no pun intended). To my mind it’s a judgement call by the angler on the day and experience will tell him what he can and can’t get away with.

No Graham..thats my post. The jump to ledgering was all your own doing.

Hope your enlightend now to your error.

Cheers.

 

[108831]

The issue for me is recommendation,how can anyone advise 10-12lb line for fish that average 4-9lbs,most anglers would land such fish on 6-8lb line with ease,unless snag fishing,which to be honest isn't the best tactic to be recommended IMO.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Philip.
If you tell us TW recommends 10/12lb line on a thread relating to Trotting on the Severn it's surely helpful to make the point that your contribution relates to something totally different to the question asked.

It's a bit like on a pike fishing query saying that Ray Mumford recommends 1.8oz bottom.

Hope that explains your confusion

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Whitty.
Depends on the river.

Wye average size 5-8lb. With 6lb line you would probably lose 1 in 4 from cutoffs in many stretches.

 

[jasonbean1]

Whitty.
Depends on the river.

Wye average size 5-8lb. With 6lb line you would probably lose 1 in 4 from cutoffs in many stretches.

Yes but that's only if your ledgering, on 3-4lb line on the float you would probablably loose 1 in 10 but that all depends on what TW said about something 15 years ago on a totally different river...mg:...this is all getting a bit confusing..

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Yes. Jason.
That was my point about TW comment being pointless on this thread
To clarify, my Wye 6lb line comment refers to ledgering.

 

[Philip]

Philip. If you tell us TW recommends 10/12lb line on a thread relating to Trotting on the Severn it's surely helpful to make the point that your contribution relates to something totally different to the question asked.

Graham I JUST posted (for the second time) what I originally wrote which clearly explained what my point related to. Still No problem, here let me post it again for a 3rd time so hopefully even you cant miss it :

Fish welfare is always going to be thorny subject when it comes to line and tackle strength. To my mind the mere fact we are fishing for them puts them in danger. In addition “strong” tackle to some will be “weak” to others. An example - Trefor West who knows allot more about Barbel than most recons 6lb ine is still light for them for the fish welfare/prolonged fight reasons. He recommends 10 or 12lb line. The point being where is the acceptable line ? (no pun intended). To my mind it’s a judgement call by the angler on the day and experience will tell him what he can and can’t get away with.

There you go. A clear explanation as to what my point related to which was in response to a point about fish welfare and extended fights that someone else brought up. Did you bother to read any of the thread as it appears your missing large gaps.

Now if I may, it was because of this same -you not bothering to read properly- in the first place that we are having this back and forth. You didn’t read what I wrote and then presumed to answer a question I never asked & it snowballed from there. A simple checking back would have shown you your error but you didnt bother and now your trying to wriggle out of a rapidly expanding hole you have dug for yourself.

It's a bit like on a pike fishing query saying that Ray Mumford recommends 1.8oz bottom.

No its not really like that at all is it … Its actually allot more like this :

Philip : Live Trout is a good bait for Pike. Eddie Turner used to use them allot.
Graham Elliot: No your wrong Eddie Turner used to buy his Trout not catch them from the water. How can you catch a trout from a water with no Trout in it.
Philip: What ?
Graham : You asked the question why Eddie Turner brought Trout, I was answering that.

….You see Graham ….its very simple …you didn’t read the post and then answered a question that no one asked. Clear enough for you ?

 

[108831]

Obviously the vagaries of stretches has to be taken into consideration, I have caught hundreds of barbel on the float on the Severn,but not for more than ten years,my last try resulted in 18 barbel,but my biggest from the river is an 8lber,these were caught on 5lb line,losses were very few,in my opinion double figure barbel are less violent on a match rod and a pin,than on a 1.75lb t.c. rod on the lead and I've had a few,not loads mind, I've had barbel on Waggler,stick and more normal Avon/balsa tackle,on the Lea,Gt.Ouse,Ivel,H.Avon and Trent as well,many high number catches too,losses were what I consider to be more than acceptable,the biggest issue float fishing is foul hooking,especially when big barbel are present as its hard to avoid big pectoral fins. As for reviving fish after playing them on the float,I haven't found it an issue and certainly less of of a problem than playing fish hard on braid(upwards of 30lbs b.s. in some cases),like certain high profile anglers condone.

 

[108831]

To give an idea on tackle I might use on the Severn today on the float,I think 7.9lb Silstar mainline and a 5.5lb hooklink of the same line,slightly heavy for small fish,but reasonably capable of landing a Bertie.

As an add on,if I was just fishing for barbel it would be 7.9 straight through...

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Yes Philip.
But mentioning 10/12lb line as being used by a very experienced angler when we are offering advice to an inexperienced float fishing angler asking for help on trotting the Severn is simply confusing unless, like me you explain under what circumstances your reference refers to.

Thats why I helped you out. And hopefully the novice in question.

Ps. To original poster. Unlikely to catch trout when on your river.

 

[Philip]

But mentioning 10/12lb line as being used by a very experienced angler when we are offering advice to an inexperienced float fishing angler asking for help on trotting the Severn is simply confusing unless, like me you explain under what circumstances your reference refers to.

Ah you little scally wag Graham, I of course did explain the context of the post. I explained it in the original post which you didn’t read and I posted it twice more for your benefit. Do I really need to post it a 4th time ? …what the hell lets do it !

Fish welfare is always going to be thorny subject when it comes to line and tackle strength. To my mind the mere fact we are fishing for them puts them in danger. In addition “strong” tackle to some will be “weak” to others. An example - Trefor West who knows allot more about Barbel than most recons 6lb ine is still light for them for the fish welfare/prolonged fight reasons. He recommends 10 or 12lb line. The point being where is the acceptable line ? (no pun intended). To my mind it’s a judgement call by the angler on the day and experience will tell him what he can and can’t get away with.

There you go …what I original said and clearly explained in what context…fish welfare & extended playing times in response to that point being raised by others earlier in the thread. ...what part of that don’t you understand ? …& that’s a Rhetorical question…the answer of course being everything.

Oh & thanks for helping me out …so lets recap …so its 6lb line on the Wye but that’s if you ledgering while on the Severn you should start on a 3.5lb bottom & 5.5mainline but then up to 7.9lb straight through if you hook any Barbel but on the BA and Teme if you ledgering it needs to be 10 or 12 lb but that’s because your fishing near snags.

Clear ? ..yes perfect and a great help to a novice just wanting to try out trotting & catch a couple of fish

...Hmmm…should I ask what permutations you would recommend I use on the Kennet, Lodden, Lea, Trent, Ouse, Avon, Dorset Stour, St Patricks stream, Thames, Ribble, Ure, Dove Wark Avon, Colne, Derwent, Cherwell, Nene & Kentish Stour ? ….no wait please don’t…I’d rather shoot myself.

Night Night Graham.

 

[jasonbean1]

god knows what clutch is thinking".....I bet he thought he'd get some nice simple advice on fishing a float....he'll probably never post againmg:

 

[peter crabtree]

god knows what clutch is thinking?:

Probably changing his gear?