Day tickets, yes or no?

[sam vimes]

OK, fair enough-its just an internet thing, I can rattle off ideas to someone 100's of miles away during a debate without much understanding of their situation which is easy and makes it look simple, sure I understand that but, I do understand those ideas might be impossible to implement or just impractical; I just fire them off and see if any hit the mark. Its not being deluded and nothing to do with political ideals, just ideas as they come and seeing if they are helpful or not as the case may be; there is not much more to it than that.
As an example its like my friend who is wheelchair/housebound with one leg, people are constantly trying to sell him jogging suits or telling him he should get out more and get a life on twitter; you understand what I am saying.
I understand not all clubs are the same and not all are struggling, some make more money than others and most not much but I just don't think there is a lot of initiative going on apart from day ticketing with a lot of hand wringing so I just try and think of something else.
With miles of rivers that have to be paid for that never get used, down my way for certain, it seems a waste and no good to me and more significantly no good to anyone it seems, club members included, lost to fishing whatever way you toss the coin. They end up no fishing or with another club, still makes no difference to me or anyone it would seem, I just know quite a lot of river like that my way. Why do clubs carry on paying out for these?

I'm sorry that you've taken "deluded" as an insult, it isn't, and wasn't intended as one. Ultimately, you are no more deluded than I am. You keep making similar points about clubs over a variety of different threads. I keep addressing many of your points and am deluding myself into thinking that you might take some of it on board. It's a crying shame that someone with so much apparent interest in your local clubs and how they operate can't translate that interest into getting involved. I'm sure they'd be delighted to have you. They'd probably be delighted to have anybody.

Although I'm still quite bemused as to how I actually ended up on a club committee, its been an education. I know that I'd have had many similar ideas of how dismally some clubs are run. I'd probably have proposed some similar solutions. However, I learned very rapidly why ideas that appear so obvious from the outside are simply not possible. There are many things I entirely disagree with. If it were a dictatorship, there are things I'd change in a heartbeat. However, one thing most clubs are is democratic, at least within the few that bother to turn up.

I started a thread some time ago suggesting that and I got it in the neck for it, deluded again. But at the time I could see in some situations clubs might work something out between them and gain from it and their anglers as well so, good; there was some meat in it after-all.

Let's not alter history here. I recall that you suggested that clubs should merge. Fair enough, not the daftest idea. However, I remember pointing out that your merging idea wasn't workable in many cases because of those pesky constitutions. These constitutions were invariably drafted a long time ago with the best of intentions. However, in some cases they end up being millstones round the neck of the club that can stop them merging, allowing outside members etc. Where clubs merging is feasible, it has often happened decades ago. There are plenty of "Amalgamations" out there in club land. When it comes to clubs co-operating, it's often not apparent, but many do already. My own club isn't likely to merge with another. That hasn't stopped us co-operating with another club over the use of a single stillwater.

 

[no-one in particular]

I'm sorry that you've taken "deluded" as an insult, it isn't, and wasn't intended as one. .[/COLOR]

Okay doke - lets just try and clear this one up a bit, deluded is a symptom of mental illness and sometimes used as an insult, you see the problem, when you say "deluded" and you have used it a few times on me, I don't know if your thinking I am mental ill or you want to imply it or you just want to insult me or its just a word you use and you think it has no connotation.. If you just say "Ultimately your still (wrong)" which is what people usually use then there's no confusion on my part, I know exactly what you mean and what your pertaining to. We only have words to go on so the right word saves confusion. It would just be a bit easier and more polite if you just said I was wrong, not deluded; but don't worry about its not a big deal, its the internet, usages and understanding of words are varied all over the place. I usual find its best to use words that pertain to the argument not the person then there is no confusion..

On your other points, well I have gone over why I don't join a club many times and we probably are going to go nowhere on other points so I will leave it for now.

 

[sam vimes]

Okay doke - lets just try and clear this one up a bit, deluded is a symptom of mental illness and sometimes used as an insult, you see the problem, when you say "deluded" and you have used it a few times on me, I don't know if your thinking I am mental ill or you want to imply it or you just want to insult me or its just a word you use and you think it has no connotation.. If you just say "Ultimately your still (wrong)" which is what people usually use then there's no confusion on my part, I know exactly what you mean and what your pertaining to. We only have words to go on so the right word saves confusion. It would just be a bit easier and more polite if you just said I was wrong, not deluded.

On your other points, well I have gone over why I don't join a club many times and we probably are going to go nowhere on other points so I will leave it for now.

Delusions can no doubt be part of mental illness, but you don't have to be mentally ill to be deluded. I am making no such accusation towards you. As someone from a family of mental health practitioners, I'd be incredibly wary of using the word if I thought it fixed in your definition. I'd also not be too keen to apply it equally to myself. As I keep on believing that it's worth conversing with you and that you'll eventually take on board some of what's said, I have little doubt that I am deluded.

The most basic definition of deluded is simply "believing in something that is false". Reading anything further into it is down to you.

 

[MRWELL]

Frankly , there are loads of c9mmercials that cater for you .... why should a club issue day tickets as well?

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Your right there are loads of commercials that cater for me so no big deal but the point i am getting at is that day ticket users are being labled with the ''scum'' word,ok not by all but to me it is wrong to use such a word at any Angler that cares about their sport..i will never join a club so this is not something i would get involved with as a rule but that one comment early on was enough for me to get involved in this debate,many clubs rely on day ticket sales if not why did they introduce them in the first place?...we could go on about this for ever so i will leave it at that and lets just hope some good comes from it all and clubs start to pick up because more are strugling than doing well..tight lines.

 

[fishingcarpenter]

hi probably going to get shot for this but day tickets and our eastern block friends with barbecues are a problem, happened on ocean pit at weybread and breakaway pit near woodbridge. so no day tickets. haven’t heard of members cooking pike and carp

 

[eric]

I'm wondering if this is why the BAA stopped day tickets a few years back, or maybe it was just low ticket sales?

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[eric]

So you can see if it's any good before you join?

Frankly , there are loads of c9mmercials that cater for you .... why should a club issue day tickets as well?

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[eric]

I do this. Also I don't want to join more than 2 clubs each year so day tickets can be good value.

How many members do clubs gain from anglers trying their waters out on a dayticket?

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[sam vimes]

So you can see if it's any good before you join?

I can think of quite a few instances where this might be in the best interests of the angler, but not the club.
I'd go as far as to suggest that most clubs that offer day tickets do so because a) they always have and b) they need the income. I suspect that without the historical aspect, most clubs would not offer day tickets if they could afford not to.

 

[eric]

So if someone tries a venue, then joins, how is that not in the club interests?

I can think of quite a few instances where this might be in the best interests of the angler, but not the club.
I'd go as far as to suggest that most clubs that offer day tickets do so because a) they always have and b) they need the income. I suspect that without the historical aspect, most clubs would not offer day tickets if they could afford not to.

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[Peter Jacobs]

I don't necessarily agree with Sam, above, as there is no real evidence to support his position; many clubs in my region offer day tickets and have increased their membership following this scheme.


One of the larger local clubs offer day tickets to selected, but not all, waters both river and lakes which at the last AGM was agreed to be continued for the foreseeable future.


As for anglers who use day ticket facilities being labelled as "scum" well, that is possibly applicable to a minority but certainly not the vast majority.


The income stream for many smller clubs from day tickets is a large part of their budgets and with the demograpgics of most clubs changing, particularly as many members grow older, the day tcket income is of pramount importance.


As "modern life" changes drastically from the 50's and 60's, and with far more options available for most people, the old style anging club has become less and less important from a membership viewpoint.

Many anglers simply don't have the time to make an annual subscription economically viable, so the day ticket provides an invaluble "service" to many.

 

[sam vimes]

So if someone tries a venue, then joins, how is that not in the club interests?

I was coming at it from the opposite direction of many anglers paying for a day ticket, having an underwhelming day and never joining (or buying another day ticket). Outside of heavily stocked commies, many waters stand very little chance of showing their potential in just one visit. If they get unlucky with the day, or make poor choices in their choice of swim, bait, tactics etc, they could easily blank. I see plenty of day ticket anglers on one of my club's river stretches. The vast majority I talk to seem to have bad days and vow to never return. The club may actually have been better off if the angler had been forced to buy a season ticket to fish. Naturally, some wouldn't bother. However, those that did might actually visit more than once and end up getting familiar with the water. If they get to grips with it and start catching, they may end up doing something more than visiting once and slating the water to everyone they talk about it with. That certainly would be in the best interests of the club.

Day tickets are invariably a double edged sword for a club. I don't blame any club for not offering them. There are also plenty of reasons as to why some clubs can't offer day tickets even if they were inclined to.

 

[eric]

I just realized this is all waffle, no one actually looks to forums for ideas on club policy. If they need money and new members day tickets will be offered if not they won't anything else is purely speculation

I was coming at it from the opposite direction of many anglers paying for a day ticket, having an underwhelming day and never joining (or buying another day ticket). Outside of heavily stocked commies, many waters stand very little chance of showing their potential in just one visit. If they get unlucky with the day, or make poor choices in their choice of swim, bait, tactics etc, they could easily blank. I see plenty of day ticket anglers on one of my club's river stretches. The vast majority I talk to seem to have bad days and vow to never return. The club may actually have been better off if the angler had been forced to buy a season ticket to fish. Naturally, some wouldn't bother. However, those that did might actually visit more than once and end up getting familiar with the water. If they get to grips with it and start catching, they may end up doing something more than visiting once and slating the water to everyone they talk about it with. That certainly would be in the best interests of the club.

Day tickets are invariably a double edged sword for a club. I don't blame any club for not offering them. There are also plenty of reasons as to why some clubs can't offer day tickets even if they were inclined to.

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[sam vimes]

I just realized this is all waffle, no one actually looks to forums for ideas on club policy. If they need money and new members day tickets will be offered if not they won't anything else is purely speculation

I've no doubt that you are correct that no club looks to forums for ideas. The only obligation they have is to their members and the long term future of the club. However, it's not necessarily all waffle or speculation. Quite a few posters on here are actively involved (or have previously been actively involved) in the running of various clubs in various parts of the country.

 

[eric]

Ok so do you have any data on your assertion that day tickets don't lead to memberships? Otherwise what you are saying is speculation

I've no doubt that you are correct that no club looks to forums for ideas. The only obligation they have is to their members and the long term future of the club. However, it's not necessarily all waffle or speculation. Quite a few posters on here are actively involved (or have previously been actively involved) in the running of various clubs in various parts of the country.

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[sam vimes]

Ok so do you have any data on your assertion that day tickets don't lead to memberships? Otherwise what you are saying is speculation

I didn't actually make that assertion, but put it this way, I compile all the data for a club and I bailiff for that club. I get to see every ticket sold. I have a reasonable handle on what goes on with regards to that club. In our case, the vast majority of our day ticket sales do not result in full membership. I appreciate that this won't be the same for some clubs and there are plenty of reasons for it being the case with mine that wouldn't apply to others.

 

[eric]

Of course the vast majority won't!!! It's like direct marketing, where statistical analysis shows that something like 1% of flyers result in a new customer. New members can be hard earned. If you don't think it's worth it for your club fair enough but I don't agree with making arguments to restrict access to fishing

I didn't actually make that assertion, but put it this way, I compile all the data for a club and I bailiff for that club. I get to see every ticket sold. I have a reasonable handle on what goes on with regards to that club. In our case, the vast majority of our day ticket sales do not result in full membership. I appreciate that this won't be the same for some clubs and there are plenty of reasons for it being the case with mine that wouldn't apply to others.

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[eric]

I'm off to get a day ticket

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[sam vimes]

I don't agree with making arguments to restrict access to fishing

Again, I haven't actually suggested that access to angling be restricted. All I've said is that day tickets are a double edged sword for a club and my preference, could any club I'm a member of afford to do it, would be for no day tickets. As an individual angler, I'd probably be delighted if every fishery was available on a day ticket. However, with my club official's hat on, I've got to think in the best interests of the club and its' members, not every random non-member angler in the land. Same goes for other waters I hold membership for. Many anglers would probably be over the moon if they all offered day tickets. However, the bulk of the membership would drop out if that were to happen.

 

[eric]

Yes thanks mate

Again, I haven't actually suggested that access to angling be restricted. All I've said is that day tickets are a double edged sword for a club and my preference, could any club I'm a member of afford to do it, would be for no day tickets. As an individual angler, I'd probably be delighted if every fishery was available on a day ticket. However, with my club official's hat on, I've got to think in the best interests of the club and its' members, not every random non-member angler in the land. Same goes for other waters I hold membership for. Many anglers would probably be over the moon if they all offered day tickets. However, the bulk of the membership would drop out if that were to happen.

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