Bumping fish, or just not hooking them properly........

[tigger]

I keep hearing people talking about bumping fish on the strike because the rod is to stiff etc etc and the rod pulls the hook out of the fishes mouth on the strike. Personally I very rarely ever "bump a fish" or should I say pull the hook out on the strike, which is what I think the term of "bump a fish off" is supposed to mean....however I don't think that is what's actually happening.
I've used light actioned float rods and heavy actioned float rods and if anything i've found that i've not hooked them properly, or "bumped them off" whilst using the lighter actioned rods. This applies especially to grayling due to their hard upper mouth. If I use my avenger rod which is the most powerfull of the three most well known normark floats rods the hook is driven home and pretty much no fish are lost. When i've used my microlite which is a soft actioned rod I found myself "bumping" a number of fish on the strike. My answer to the problem was to strike harder and play the fish harder on the lighter microlite rod. This proved to be an instant solution and after that I didn't "bump" any fish at all and landed the majority of them.
So, my opinion is that when people "bump fish off" it's because they are using a softer rod and not striking correctly, or there are a number of other possibilities....using a blunt hook, using the wrong size of hook, using bait that stops the hook from being driven home etc, and certainly not because of the rod being to fast or stiff etc.
Manys the time i've struck and pulled a fish clear of the water on the strike, even at long range. These have been small soft mouthed fish such as roach and dace. Now if the hook pulled out of fish so easily then lets face it, that wouldn't happen.

I know people will disagree entirely with my findings but I will be very interested to hear their opinions on "bumping fish".

 

[sam vimes]

We've had this chat on the bank, and I couldn't convince you then, so I'm not going to be able to by words on a screen.
Needless to say, I'm utterly convinced that you can bump fish, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with not hooking them properly.
A true bump is close to instantaneous, not five seconds after a strike, let alone minutes into a fight. It comes down to a combination of factors, rod strength/action, line stretch, hook type, hook sharpness etc.

I rather doubt that it's something that you'd care about even if you noticed it happening to you. You aren't really bothered about catching the smaller species, or fish, and you don't tend to use the smaller hooks that it's more likely to happen with. I wouldn't actually be surprised if you were generally rather pleased at the prospect of small roach and dace coming off.

 

[dicky123]

A touch harsh Sam?

I wonder if it happens to eyed hooks mostly, or spades? For whatever reason I mostly miss my bites.mg:

Seriously, I do miss a huge amount of bites on the float. I'd love to have a few hours with a top float stick man, just to see what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure many are small Dace or Bleak that don't take properly? I think spade ends due to the straightness of the knot pulls into fish better than eyed. If I used eyed its with a spade end knot or hair rig knot clipped. So I don't bump many?:w

Rich.

 

[nottskev]

I couldn't say I've noticed it happening more or less with rods of different action. But I have found when pole fishing that if you use too light an elastic in deep water, you will fail to hook fish or bump them on the strike more often. That may be similar to the "soft rod" effect.

Having said that, I habitually use a a very soft rod when waggler fishing for roach on the Trent - a Daiwa Amorphous Whisker Light - and this hooks fish fine, with a low risk of cracking off if the strike connects more directly than you expected or the fish happens to be going the other way when the line tightens. But, as Sam says, I'm using light line and small hooks.

I have found perch and grayling more prone to being "bumped", presumably related to their hard mouths.

 

[tigger]

I definately notice if it happens, it may not have been a dace!
On some occassions I do fish for smaller species, iit depends on the venue and what it holds, if itonly holds dace etc then they're the targets.
As I mentioned "grayling fishing", i vey often targetthem from october onwards and it was on a grayling session that I did my experiment.
Although I have done the same with dace etc on my local streams.
No matter how hard I strike (within reason) I don't bump fish off with a heavier rod.
Regarding hook sizes I regularly go doen to 18 but seldom much smaller on the river.

 

[108831]

I don't bump many fish on the strike,but I do have fish come off when bringing them in occasionally,it seems to happen in spells,I wonder if it's down to conditions on the river and how the fish intercept the bait,angle of approach etc.

 

[barbelboi]

My main experience of 'bumping' fish off has been with large crucians and and large gravel pit roach. As the fish can be very finicky, and the bites can also be so tentative that a 'dotted down to nothing' float doesn't move (or it's not noticeable to the eye) and when you lift on 'instinct' and someone's home sometimes you land a fish (barely hooked) and other times you feel the fish for an instance then nothing.......So I'd go by the theory that it's more likely they were not hooked properly as the 'sharp' bit hadn't been sucked into the mouth enough/or at all at that stage.

In this instance I don't believe it's anything to do with the rod action just a part of fishing.

 

[tigger]

A touch harsh Sam?

I wonder if it happens to eyed hooks mostly, or spades? For whatever reason I mostly miss my bites.mg:

Seriously, I do miss a huge amount of bites on the float. I'd love to have a few hours with a top float stick man, just to see what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure many are small Dace or Bleak that don't take properly? I think spade ends due to the straightness of the knot pulls into fish better than eyed. If I used eyed its with a spade end knot or hair rig knot clipped. So I don't bump many?:w

Rich.

If you think the fish are being finnicky or are small you could hook the maggot through the middle of its body but so it hangs upright or even switch to a smaller hook and hook it in the same manner....it does work
Very often if your fishing clpse to or dragging bottom you will catch bottom which pulls your float under and it does look just like a bite, still worth striking though as every now and then it is a fish .

 

[mikench]

Does the use or not of a hair rig hook make a difference? On the float with light lines, small hooks and baits like meat, soft pellet, maggots and bread I suspect the answer is obvious but less so with 4 and 6 mm hard pellet or larger hooks and baits!

 

[sam vimes]

A touch harsh Sam?

I don't believe so. As I said, Tigger and I have had this discussion on the bank. I had been bumping roach on a rod that I've grown to dislike. The action being wrong for the way I fish. Tigger thought I was bonkers at the very suggestion. However, he favours rods with a more through action than I would contemplate for trotting. It's also worth mentioning that I was using braid as a mainline, which only exaggerates any problems you might have. The sad bit is, that with the rod in question, a change to mono hasn't made me any happier with the rod. The thought of a huge sweeping strike leaves me cold, but it's the way Tigger often expects to strike.

All of this only highlights the huge differences in the way we all fish. Even simple things don't mean the same thing to all of us. The different venues that we fish can also make a he'll of a difference. Ultimately, I don't expect my preferences for gear to be shared universally. Even if we fished the same venues, different styles come into play. One man's meat, and all that. It's all highlighted by Tiger's quite different attitude to the lighter Acolyte Ultras and spliced tip rods. He's said repeatedly that he doesn't see the point in either. I'll invariably disagree. We simply fish in slightly different ways.

 

[108831]

Striking hard on top and bottom floats doesn't seem right to me,unless your over twenty yards away,the rip of said strike spooks fish alarmingly unless you have 6ft plus of water,I don't bump many fish on the river on baits other than maggot,but when I fish slider for roach on hard pellet I have annoying spells of fish coming off.

 

[tigger]

Striking hard on top and bottom floats doesn't seem right to me,unless your over twenty yards away,the rip of said strike spooks fish alarmingly unless you have 6ft plus of water,I don't bump many fish on the river on baits other than maggot,but when I fish slider for roach on hard pellet I have annoying spells of fish coming off.

I can't say that i've noticed the movement made by my float when striking spooking the fish at all.
I've had some megga sessions fishing in as low as 12inches of water. One session trotting in about 18 inches of water I caught 64 chub, a barbel and a 3lb roach and they where all hit in about 10 or so square feet, trott after trott!
I've had loads of similar sessions, even the other day I had 40 plus small chub and dace and 10 small barbel fishing in 18 inches to 3ft of water using a 3gram Map bolo wire stemmed float.
Very often I have ducks, woggy hens and even swans land and take off in a swim and even that doesn't spook the fish for more than a mo,ent or two.
I suppose it depends on how many fish are there (safty in numbers) and if they're in feeding mode or not.

 

[peterjg]

There is no one solution or cause to this problem:

Getting used to a particular rod and learning how hard to strike.

When trotting, holding back just a little too hard.

Use sharp hooks, hooks with inturned points go in with less force.

Lines and hooklengths with too much stretch - not too little stretch.

Timing the strike and even the shotting pattern can alter hook penetration.

I still bump the odd bite, it is inevitable, I do tend to strike quite hard. I hate bumping fish, it can and often does put the settled fish off and move the shoal.

 

[tigger]

There is no one solution or cause to this problem:

Getting used to a particular rod and learning how hard to strike.

When trotting, holding back just a little too hard.

Use sharp hooks, hooks with inturned points go in with less force.

Lines and hooklengths with too much stretch - not too little stretch.

Timing the strike and even the shotting pattern can alter hook penetration.

I still bump the odd bite, it is inevitable, I do tend to strike quite hard. I hate bumping fish, it can and often does put the settled fish off and move the shoal.

I like using inturned hook points, kamasan animals and drennan super spades are my go to hooks.
I think barbless hooks could be another reason someone my be bumping off more fish than they should.

 

[markcw]

I couldn't say I've noticed it happening more or less with rods of different action. But I have found when pole fishing that if you use too light an elastic in deep water, you will fail to hook fish or bump them on the strike more often. That may be similar to the "soft rod" effect.

Having said that, I habitually use a a very soft rod when waggler fishing for roach on the Trent - a Daiwa Amorphous Whisker Light - and this hooks fish fine, with a low risk of cracking off if the strike connects more directly than you expected or the fish happens to be going the other way when the line tightens. But, as Sam says, I'm using light line and small hooks.

I have found perch and grayling more prone to being "bumped", presumably related to their hard mouths.

Kev, have you tried tightening the elastic when fishing deep ? If I am fishing deep (10') I will either tighten the elastic or use a heavier one to compensate for the force of the "strike" when lifting into fish, I have also found that by changing hook pattern can also solve the problem of bumping fish off on the strike whether using a pole or rod and reel, Like Sam I would say bumping a fish off is instantaneous on the strike, you feel the fish on and its gone in a millisecond, not playing it for about 10 seconds and it coming off.

 

[markcw]

I like using inturned hook points, kamasan animals and drennan super spades are my go to hooks.
I think barbless hooks could be another reason someone my be bumping off more fish than they should.

Tigger, Do you not think that kamasan animals and Drennan super spades are heavy and thick gauge wire hooks ?

Give Tubertini 808's or the Guru QM1's a try, Both with do a variety of baits and are sharp,light and strong,

 

[O.C.F.Disorder]

Im not sure what people mean by a bump, not sure i have experienced it.. Minnows can look like bites but just hang on to the maggot so will pull right out.. I use a size 20 and conceal the hook within it and I never miss bites really.. Sadly even minnows get hooked when im fishing haha. Today I had a frustrating session after chub with bread crusts.. Missed bites galore

 

[nottskev]

Kev, have you tried tightening the elastic when fishing deep ? If I am fishing deep (10') I will either tighten the elastic or use a heavier one to compensate for the force of the "strike" when lifting into fish, I have also found that by changing hook pattern can also solve the problem of bumping fish off on the strike whether using a pole or rod and reel, Like Sam I would say bumping a fish off is instantaneous on the strike, you feel the fish on and its gone in a millisecond, not playing it for about 10 seconds and it coming off.

Thanks Mark - yes of course. I didn't bring it up because I'm having a problem - just an example of what can lead to failing to set the hook, equivalant to too soft a rod. I had a Garbolino SLV pole in 1978 and a Fothergill and Harvey (now Tri Cast) 10m in the new miracle material (carbon fibre) in 1981, so I've had time to pick up the elastic basics.

 

[markcw]

Good morning Kev, I remember fishing Lymm Dam on the Baycliffe side with a pole and bumping fish, It was only later on when I got home I realized what the problem was and I could have rectified it on the bank, Elastic set to soft, Like you I had been using a pole for years, First one was a Colmic fibreglass one, But I didn't think abut the elastic being set to soft, I was blaming it on small fish.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Personally, I've never been happy with this word 'strike' as a means of actually hooking fish and in my type of fishing where (at this time) 'striking' (if that is what I did) has long been replaced with 'pulling' into fish. Without doubt my catches have improved particularly when fishing hemp/tares etc etc.
'Striking') suggest a sharp reaction to the float disappearing and I no longer do this, prefering to (almost) move the rod sideways in a more gentle 'sweep' - a 'pull' if you will.... Striking. to me anyway, suggest one is expecting to make contact with fish every time and i don't think it does.

Apologies, I need to close down now, but I think I have put my point across???

ps How many times recently has 'striking' vertically with hemp or even red mags resulted in missed fish, but a long thin float with rod top buried 2' from it, and a sideways 'pull' changed that to a good roach time after time. NOT always but I believe it's worth thinking about . Trotting: never done anything other than use a pull to hook fish and not done too bad..............

Perhaps we need to analyse the word 'strike' ??