Yet another moan about commies (sorry)

[O.C.F.Disorder]

The other day I met a young lad on the river and we got talking, as you do, turns out he has caught HUGE fish of all the species (with photos for proof) golden Orfe and all! So I assumed he had been fishing for many years then to my shock he said he has only been fishing a year! It just so happens it was only his 4th time on a river and has been fishing places like anglers paradise and the like. He said he has got bored of fishing in places where he knows what he is going to catch but is disappointed by what he gets out of the river. I had no advice for the poor chap.

Having not been fishing for very long I am on that wonderful journey of bettering PBs and (having mainly fished rivers) its been so gradual. Its like the fishing gods have been smiling down on me. Every species started with a very small fish and as I have learned more and spent more time on the bank they have gradually got bigger and bigger.. Almost every time I have come into contact with a MONSTER prematurely it has escaped me, with the exception of perch. I caught a monster perch on one of my first ever lure fishing outings (oxford canal).

Excuse me if this is a stupid question but are commercials ruining fishing in the long term? I know they benefit the industry in the short term but maybe some of them are making it too easy? A lot of my peers are very instant gratificationy... They come, they see, they conquer, they leave. Where does this leave the future of fishing? I thought it was a growing industry but upon hearing rod licence numbers are down im not sure what to think.

 

[daniel121]

Commercial fisheries are in existence because fishermen demand then and like them, its simple as that.

I do know what you mean, they certainly attract the instant carper type, that's not a pop as carp fisherman it's just an observation. I personally think fishing is on the decline and will continue to decline not because of commercial fisheries but because people are changing. Fisherman are getting older and not so many younger guys are coming inti the sport.

I personally like the variety of fishing available nowadays, it suits me fine. As I've said before I've spent a lot of my time unsuccessfully trying to promote fishing to youngsters when I first retired but at the end of the day..... It's dark and you won't change that.

Times change, I think without commercial fisheries fishing would be in a worse state than it currently is, its not how I've always thought but I've had my mind changed on this one from debate with others

 

[steve2]

but is disappointed by what he gets out of the river.

He will continue to be disappointed because the stock levels between artificial and natural are totally different.
I watched an angler the other day happily catch a net of 2 to 3 oz roach with a couple of bigger 8oz. If you have been brought up to expect every bite to be a commercial size fish then will you never take to river fishing?

 

[dann]

For me it is a bit like food, a commercial stuffed with fish is like McDonalds, we all know it's not great but there is always a market for it, it is quick and easy and lets face it, we all feel like a McDonalds at some point.

A beautiful stretch of the river is like a lovely home cooked meal, more effort, more time but if the recipe works out, there is little better. There are of course days when you follow the recipe and the Yorkshire puddings don't rise/catch any fish but that makes the next meal/catch even better.

With a bit of effort and time on the river the young lad will hopefully hone his skill and start catching better fish. A decent river perch or chub excites me far more than any carp I have ever had even if the weights are lower.

 

[mikench]

I like analogies and that's a good one! I fish a couple of day ticket waters which are on my card and like them! Fishing isn't easy however on either and they are not overstocked! One looks naturál and is as opposed to the fake canals and rubber ring type lakes of some!

What put me off the latter was the sheer number of guys with poles sitting cheek by jowl , not uttering a word and not even looking like they were enjoying themselves!

A blank in a beautiful setting, in nice weather with good tackle suits me fine; occasionally!

 

[103841]

In financial terms, the fishing tackle industry would be on its knees without commercials. Many of us don’t like them, I don’t care for them myself any more but they were very beneficial when I first got back into fishing.

 

[thecrow]

Why does it bother some anglers where others fish? how they fish? and what they catch?

This lad was obviously happy with what he had been doing otherwise he would not still be fishing.

Commercials imo are the reason angling numbers are what they are, without them lots would have packed it in long ago, the elderly, the infirm or those that just want to catch something, anything.

Just what is a commercial? is it somewhere that makes money for the owner/renter if it is then like it or not we all fish commercials, very few waters are run on the basis that the fee charged will cover the lease only, some syndicates are but I have only belonged to one of those, moan away but it wont change the fact that more fish these waters than others, lets face it what beginner wants to sit on the bank of a declining river and catch next to nothing for their efforts?

 

[benny samways]

Blurred lines.

Comorants have ruined lots of natural venues where good catches were ‘normal’. Even as a 12 year old lad learning waggler fishing, we could go to the big country park lake and catch loads of roach, skimmers, tench, pike attacks (67 was my best with 12 skimmers!).

If you tried to do the same today you wouldn’t catch a thing!

So, in a way big and easy catches aren’t just a ‘commie’ thing. But, imo, natural venues are just at a loss to keep their ‘natural’ stock levels up to what they once were.

It is the fighting nature of carp which I think effects new anglers, if your first fish is a 6lb carp the pull from a 6oz roach aint gonna do it for ya. After catching my first barbel age 15 I didnt see the point in fishing for other species as they couldnt pull back like a barbel.

------------------
Surely rod numbers being down is a result of carpers not needing to buy 2 licences any more?

 

[sam vimes]

Within geographical/economic restrictions, fishing is whatever you want it to be. Commies aren't my thing, but I'm not going to moan about their existence. I don't like gambling, but I don't complain about the existence of bookies. Lots of people obviously like commies, and bookies, or they wouldn't exist.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Commercial fisheries provide a safe alternative to river fishing and one that usually does not require much walking as we usually expect to do on a river.

It is clearly evident that the average age of anglers is increasing and as this happens so the commercial fishery corners the market as well as providing much needed sport.

My nearest commercial fishery has relatively easy access, safe parking, has a well-stocked on site tackle shop and a decent café for a pre or post fishing meal.

 

[rayner]

I whish commercials were around when I was capable enough to fish the rivers I used to.
The exodus away from natural waters came too late for me. I can remember having to be on the bank before first light to be sure of getting a peg on the Trent when the river was full of matches.
Pleasure pegs were limited with the amount of weekend matches. Commercial fisheries were around before ill health got the better of me. I always managed to avoid them, it took nearly a twelve months before I let a friend talk me into fishing again. The only choice then was Aston.

Now we have a few that solely fish natural waters. Instead of them basking in the room they enjoy because of the lack of matches they have a new thing to grumble about, commercials. I hope if I was still capable of negotiating uneven banks I wouldn't be one of the grumblers about how other fish or where they fish.

There are more to commercials than catching fish, they have provided more jobs to the angling industry.
Bailiffs, tackle shop, café and even campsites/caravan sites on some. All these need staff to keep them running.

I for one have been forced on to commercials, forced sounds a bit dramatic but the only other alternative for me is don't fish.
The ease of fishing commercials especially through the summer sort of levels out for me, even with my limitations I can still catch a few.

If anyone gets the idea I'm having a pop at the way others fish or where they fish I'm not. If anyone gets the idea I'm jealous how or where they fish, I am.

 

[steve2]

Just what is a commercial? is it somewhere that makes money for the owner/renter if it is then like it or not we all fish commercials, very few waters are run on the basis that the fee charged will cover the lease only, some syndicates are but I have only belonged to one of those, moan away but it wont change the fact that more fish these waters than others, lets face it what beginner wants to sit on the bank of a declining river and catch next to nothing for their efforts?

All my clubs are commercials on the basis that they all need to make a profit to exist.

 

[thecrow]

All my clubs are commercials on the basis that they all need to make a profit to exist.

That's my point, any water that makes more money than is needed to maintain control of the water becomes a commercial, any left over from the club I am in goes back as stocking and keeping the waters in good condition but as they make more than they need I class them as commercials, same with some syndicates I have belonged to where the owner was making a living from it.

 

[Keith M]

the fishing tackle industry would be on its knees without commercials.

I was an angler in the days before the first commercials appeared and the tackleshops were thriving, with the canals fishing their heads off (if you knew what you were doing) and most good rivers humming with anglers at most weekends. And matches were often held along miles and miles of rivers.

As well as ‘off the shelf’ rods and reels and smaller tackle items for both fly and coarse anglers; the tackleshops around me used to also sell rod blanks, cork for handles, rod rings and everything else you needed to build a fishing rod for the anglers that were into building their own rods, as well as selections of fishing books, a large selection of floats for pole, river and stillwater anglers, and a large selection of different baits from bloodworm, squat, maggots all the way up to herrings and lamprey for deadbaiting plus lures and flies; Plus all of the constituents for making your own boilees as well as ready made frozen and shelf life boilees.

It wasn’t the decline of fishing on the rivers and lakes that made commercials so viable, it was the easier fishing, the manicured swims, the on-site tea and tackle shops, toilets and the more heavily stocked waters that made them so popular and every Tom **** and Harry could now catch rod bending fish regardless of how good they were and how much watercraft they knew.
The better anglers still caught more fish but even the lesser angler could feel their rods being bent double more often.

And along with this easier and more comfortable fishing came the new format of tackleshops which only seemed to cater for this new type of venue and new and easier fishing and the once very popular rivers, canals and naturally stocked stillwaters took a back seat and the once thriving tackleshops that catered for them started to recline.

It wasn’t the lack of fish in our rivers and stillwaters that caused the transition to commercial fisheries as there were still lots of fish in them when you had done your homework and were willing to look; it was the new glut of easier pasty filled commercials where anyone with any fishing ability at all could fish in comfort and catch pasties and snotties and even purposely bred f1’s which usually feed well even in freezing cold conditions, with everything including food, drink bait and tackle handed to the angler on a plate.

Yes the fish in our rivers no longer had tons of maggots being fed along the banks of them every weekend, and because of this the fish have had to find their food in different areas but a lot of the fish are still there and they still supply good sport for those of us who still fish them and know how to find them; but alas this new Angling format of easier and more convenient fishing has ultimately caused the recline in our sport probably because catching fish is not such a challenge as it used to be; together with the latest gaming fads that are on the market and take up a lot of peoples time these days.

But of course if that is what is wanted by anglers of today then who am I to say anything against it? That’s just the way it is, plus I have a lot more rivers and streams that have a good head of fish in them that I can fish in relative peace and quiet.

Keith

 

[iain t]

It's horses for courses. For me, Commies just ain't my thing at all but others prefer Commies to fishing wild. I would think it would be a shock if a Commie angler started to fish rivers. Not knowing how to deal with moving water and mostly smaller fish that their not used to. Commies totally lose me, with some ive seen having no features at all. The only commie I've been to is Bury hill then only because a mate on a short trip to England wanted to target Tench. The fishing was good but not for me.
If you want just big fish go to a Commie but if you want the quietness of nature around you for miles, fish wild

 

[john step]

I went to a commercial fishery this last Monday and blanked. It is primarily a large carp lake with a good head of large bream as well. Not a twitch. Not even a line bite.

There are other waters on the complex and as I drove out I stopped to chat to some old geezers on the very heavy stocked water. It is still very large though.

They were obviously not beginners but looked like mobility was an issue. Their cars were next to them. They enthused about the 15 or so carp they had caught each up to double figures.

I left the fishery disappointed and they would obviously leave happy.

I would not fish overstocked waters very often but now and again I think it does fit the bill.

Horses for courses?

 

[terry m]

Where does this leave the future of fishing? I thought it was a growing industry but upon hearing rod licence numbers are down im not sure what to think.

Why would you think fishing was a growth industry? Genuine question.

Tackle shop closures, lack of youngsters entering the past time, more venues shifting to syndicate (and therefore exclusive) operation, computer games and online activities replacing traditional past times. All of these suggest that whilst fishing is not necessarily spiralling into oblivion, it is not what would be seen as a high growth industry.

 

[O.C.F.Disorder]

This lad was obviously happy with what he had been doing otherwise he would not still be fishing.

You should reread what I wrote, let me reiterate. He has got sick of "commies" (overstocked lakes where every fish he catches has been caught before) and is now feeling the allure and mystery of more natural venues BUT he doesn't feel satisfied with what he can catch from said venues. He was basically saying he thought he was an accomplished angler and, upon realizing he isnt, he is trying to better his skills but the small steps and steady progress doesn't satisfy when compared to the rod bending action he is used to.


This made me think about how lucky I am to have been introduced to more natural venues (rivers and canals) as my step into fishing AND about how this may have an affect on the future of angling.. Assuming this problem occurs to other young people who are the next generation of anglers.

I am not saying all commies (BTW I would class lakes used only for fishing that are not open to the public as commies) are easy, far from it. Firstly, a rationally stocked lake is just as hard as many natural waters I know. Catch and release fishing creates wary fish that are harder to fool. I find some aspects of watercraft a lot harder when fishing large lakes that are regularly fished.. You never know what amount of bait has been chucked in and where.. My point is, I dont hate commies, I have even fished Toft farm lakes a few times which is essentially just two puddles stuffed with fish and I loved every minute. However! This young lads fishing journey might come to an abrupt end soon because of places like Toft and I wanted to know if anyone could relate to him or shares my train of thought. My generation really suck (for want of a better word) and the instant gratification they so desire only satisfies them for so long.. Isnt our sport all about the journey?

Some of you guys put forward some really thought provoking stuff but not quite the thread I intended it to be. I just wanted talk about whether or not this is a story you guys have heard before TBH.. If the answer is yes then surely this will have a big impact in the future. Im sorry if it sounded any different, my command of the English language is pretty poor and the best of times.

Im not really sure why I think fishing is a growing industry. Is it not? Surely globally its growing?

 

[Philip]

Im not really sure why I think fishing is a growing industry. Is it not? Surely globally its growing?

Fishing as a sport i.e catch & release a fish for fun is dying. Its on a slow downward spiral that will keep going as environmental pressures grow.

Modern commercial fisheries with nice facilities & lots of fish are a blip slowing the downward progress as they entice some new faces & keep some old ones interested in the sport but ultimately its doomed.

 

[no-one in particular]

It took me some time to persuade my parents to let me go off fishing on my own but if there had been a commercial nearby I don't think it would have been a problem.
The kid in question seems to have had a very good year assuming it was his first year this must have given him the bug, would he have got it on a river catching zilch! And now he wants to try rivers which he his learning requires a different mode and his expectations have to be lowered, all the more happy he will be when he catches a decent fish from one.
I don't see any problem with this, its a different cycle of introduction now proffered with the common placed commercials.
My cycle were rivers/lakes, sea boat, sea shore, rivers, commercials, back to rivers with the occasional commercial, the ones I liked, now sea shore mainly for the present and next summer planning sea boat.. I don't have a preference, they all have their own flavour, water craft, difficulty, different wildlife, tackle requirements, casting, methods etc, the pleasure is in the fishing, I have enjoyed it all! Maybe this kid will find the same just in a different order. Let him have his journey however and whatever way it comes and one day he would have earned the right to join our ranks of certified miserable old gits, its a growing club