Hitting chub bites

[sherlockofsheff2010]

Hi

Have been having some fairly good success with chub recently with meat, bread and cheese paste on straight lead and swan shot link.

A lot of the bites are unmissable with the chub hooking themselves against the rod top but I've also had almost as many which are similar good pulls and knocks which have left me striking into thin air.

I've messed around with rigs and materials, trying hair rigging which was a waste of time, balancing the paste with crust and lengthening and shortening the hooklink. At present I've settled on a 24 - 30 inch combi rig using amnesia and Dacron to a size 6 kirim power hook.

This seems to have given the best degree of success so far but was wondering if anyone had any hints to improve the conversion rate.
Does anyone think that putting shrink tube on the shank to kick the rig would help as dragging the hook over my palm perhaps only catches once in ten times.

Also just to say I am using the least amount of lead required to hold and fishing with the flow just registering on the quivertip.

Cheers

Steve

 

[bullet]

Probably small ones, I often find they can pull the tip right round and you can't hook them. Try a smaller hook and bait and I suspect you will hook the culprits.

 

[Keith M]

I clearly remember fishing my local stream once when the water was crystal clear and there was a guy in the next swim upstream of me who was trotting a float with smallish cubes of luncheonmeat as bait; and I could clearly see his hookbait down in front of me at the end of his trot as he started to rewind.

Occasionally he would lose his meat as he started to rewind and his bait would sink down onto the gravel bed and be followed by two or three Chub, and the first Chub to get to the meat would invariably grab it between its lips and dart well away from the others in the shoal and with the meat still visible in its lips before trying to swallow the meat, in the same way as a sparrow will often pick up some bread in its beak and fly up onto a tree branch away from the other birds before trying to swallow the piece of bread.

I remember thinking that if those cubes of meat were mounted on a normal hair rig then the Chub would be darting away with the hook still hanging on the outside of its mouth, and this was probably the reason why we often get these frustrating take away bites from Chub which often result in nothing being hooked.

You can test this by using an extra short hair with the bait hanging alongside the hook or actually mounting the bait on the hook itself, and seeing if this improves your hooking rate.

Try it next time, you might be pleasantly surprised and good luck.

I often use a longish hair on purpose when I’m after Barbel just to prevent me hooking a Chub, and it usually works a treat; and if I start hooking my bait actually on my hook I invariably start to hook Chub.

However I’ve found it doesn’t always work quite as often with the really big Chub, probably because they tend not to swim around in shoals quite as much as the smaller Chub do.

Keith

 

[benny samways]

Whooa, I love a good winter chub thread

Holding the rod is the only way I have found round this. Timing is the main thing with hitting chub bites, and sometimes by holding the rod you can hit the bite as it is still ‘pulling the tip round’ as opposed to hitting it right at the end of the pull (very hard to explain hitting a bite!).

 

[barbelboi]

Have you tried the open bail arm method for minimal resistance? The way I usually see it is, as the bite develops, the chub will be pulling line from the spool sometimes a few inches, but often up to twelve inches or more. Eventually the chub will bolt off and line will be stripping off the reel at a very fast pace. I believe it is important not to tighten up too quickly as it’s the speed at which the chub is moving which dictates the timing of turning the bail arm over...................I tend to gently take the line in my fingers once a bite develops. This then become a sort of touch ledgering with an open bail arm - Although there may well be a possibility of deep hooking a fish, as with other methods, I've found that it is easier to lose a fish if your timing of closing the arm is not quite right rather than the other way round.

 

[flightliner]

It sounds like you're quivertipping? If so consider pointing your rod in direct line to your bait and using a bobbin type indicator weighted as critical as possible with a long drop to give the chub time to get the bait in a suitable position for hooking on the strike.

 

[nottskev]

Sometimes touch-legering with a loop of line over your finger - you can move your hand forward to give line to the developing bite - seems to beat a quiver, even though you'd think nothing could be better than a soft tip and finely balanced rig. Feeling what's going on sometimes seems to help you strike at the right moment.

 

[sherlockofsheff2010]

Thanks for the replies.
With regards to smaller baits, unfortunately if I put maggots or caster on I end up with small roach rattling tip and shredding the bait.
I like the thought of touch legering. Only ever done it when freelining night fishing in margins for carp. Also like the thought of using a bobbin to create the slack line. Would also save me a fortune in isotopes.

 

[tigger]

Smaller baits hair rigged flush against the hook shank often catch the chub out. Another good option is to upstream leger.

 

[108831]

I was just going to post about upstream legering,Ian beat me to it,a critically balanced lead/feeder and a shortish length between lead and bait,around 8ins,size 4 or 6 side gape hook and a big lump of flake,don't miss loads on that...

 

[barbelboi]

For upstream legering I like to get downstream of the swim then cast with just sufficient weight to hold in the current. When tightening up they’ll be a bit of slack line between the lead/feeder and the tip that will bow. If a fish takes the bait from downstream it will have to take up the bit of slack before it feels the resistance of the tip. If it takes it from upstream it will cause the small weight to move downstream with it giving a slack line bite - in both instances I strike when the line moves.

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

You don't mention what river you're fishing.... is it a fast paced or slower-paced river? I ask because the hooklength seems long to me, if it's a slower paced river (so for example, I fish the middle thames and I think of that as quite slow) I would fish something shorter. One thing that might be happening is that the hooklength may not be in a perfectly straight line behind the lead or feeder. So let's say then that the fish picks up the bait and starts to move slowly (with the bait in its lips as described above, I've also witnessed this exact same thing watching chub feed). Initially it feels no resistance at all, but as the hooklength straightens, so it hits a point of instant resistance. At this point, it bolts - giving the massive knock on the tip - but simultaneously drops the bait. However, if the hooklength had no slack in it to begin with, the build up of resistance would be more constant and gradual - resulting in a slower more hittable bite.

This next bit will probably sound completely counter-intuitive to the point above, but bear with me... in addition to shortening the hooklength - which may or may not help - I would also consider paying off a bit of slack line once everything has settled. Even with a modest flow, this will be pulled taut to some extent.... however, what you're trying to do is introduce a slightly bigger margin of error for the fish when it picks up the bait. You'll probably see the initial pick-up on the tip and a tap or a tremble, so that means it's action stations with your hand over the rod... and if ANYTHING then happens to the tip in the next 10 seconds, you hit it.

I would just finish by saying that what I've mentioned above will have its "on" days and its "off". I think as winter chub anglers, the most important thing we can do is keep thinking about what we're doing and make changes for a reason (rather than just sticking to something because it caught you a six-pounder 4 seasons ago!) And also, listen to what has worked for others on any given day and tuck it away in your own tool kit. Little tweaks on any day can really make the difference. They really are a fantastic species, particularly as we get in to this part of the year

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Sorry just realised that jerry above is making a very similar point about trying to ensure that a bite meets as little resistance as possible, albeit through upstreaming instead...spot on IMHO.....

 

[sherlockofsheff2010]

Thanks.
The river I'm fishing is a mix of steady pace and slacks with decent depths and overhanging trees and bushes in the margins. I know about upstream legering and fishing with a bow, but the chub don't seem to come far from the cover hence me trying to use a light link so the bait settles under the cover. Unfortunately the slack flow in the margins isn't really enough to take up the slack and at times when sluice gates open the flow can do very unpredictable things. I will however try touch legering, leaving the line slack and also trying to cast upstream behind the cover.
Other thing I have just thought of is laying on or stretch pegging. Going to have to get toolkit out to doctor some floats to take isotopes.

 

[tigger]

Thanks.
The river I'm fishing is a mix of steady pace and slacks with decent depths and overhanging trees and bushes in the margins. I know about upstream legering and fishing with a bow, but the chub don't seem to come far from the cover hence me trying to use a light link so the bait settles under the cover. Unfortunately the slack flow in the margins isn't really enough to take up the slack and at times when sluice gates open the flow can do very unpredictable things. I will however try touch legering, leaving the line slack and also trying to cast upstream behind the cover.
Other thing I have just thought of is laying on or stretch pegging. Going to have to get toolkit out to doctor some floats to take isotopes.

There are always different ways to fish the same method and they can vary depending on the river....it's substrate, flow, the distance across river your fishing, the depth etc.
You don't need a bow in the line if your upstream legering, you can tighten up as much as possible. The tighter the line the better backdrop you'll get on your tip. You need to tweak the set up to get the results you want. You may find carbon tips to be the best choice for upstream legering.

 

[barbelboi]

You don't need a bow in the line if your upstream legering, you can tighten up as much as possible. The tighter the line the better backdrop you'll get on your tip

Everyone to their own Ian, (and if it catches fish for you then it's the right one for you) but I would say that when there’s is a bow a fish will more often that not hook itself against the weight of the lead/feeder. Probably before you notice a bite on the rod tip/quiver.

 

[flightliner]

Sherlock, I may know the river you are fishing.
I had a couple of after dark sessions on it last winter.
One chub of 3-9 and one blank in minus degree temperatures.
It's certainly a challenge with all its so divergent swims, deep shallow, fast, slow, conflicting currants in opposite directions etc etc.
I know it involves chopping and changing methods on some of the swims but I think you would be best to keep much of what's been suggested here in mind and be prepared to try them as and when you feel one may be appropriate.
Not asking where but did the EA cut down loads of overhanging alders that made some super chubby swims a few years ago?

 

[sherlockofsheff2010]

Flightliner
To be fair I've just returned after an enforced 4 year sabattical (house and big garden to renovate extended by being a bit intimidated by thoughts of having to sort tackle out). River in question is Dearne which if it is one you thinking about you will know what I'm saying about unpredictable flow patterns. Sometime if you didn't know better you'd think you were in tidal.
I have however now got patience to not be reaching for maggots if no note on first 10 minutes and am having one of best seasons I have ever had.
That's what I love about fishing, no matter how good the session there's always something to learn and do better next time.