This concurs with my general experience of spliced-tip rods over the years. Just that little bit sharper.
Spliced tips
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This concurs with my general experience of spliced-tip rods over the years. Just that little bit sharper.
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I dissagree totally, as i've said, i've used spliced tip rods, including the daiwa amorphous tournament Tommy Pickering super stick which was 13ft 2inch and had a 2inch removeable section of cork on the end of the handle. That rod was a superb rod, but it definately did not make me hit any more bites than any of my other float rods.
Regarding missing bites with the 14ft acolyte, I don't miss dace with mine and I catch a hell of a lot of dace. Just the lightness and slimness alone of the acolyte rods should give anyone an advantage when striking. I hardly ever bump any fish off either....be great to have a fish in somewhere and prove my point.
What do people think the splice tip was intended for?....It was designed to be a soft cushion so as not to crack off light lines on the strike. The rods where designed for fishing smaller floats also and fishing at short range.
A spliced tip certainely doesn't give a sharper strike at all, quite the opposite infact.
Nowadays (and for many years already) rod manufacturers have been making hollow tip rods soft enough to do exactly the same, "not crack off lighter lines on the strike" as a spliced tip rod. Imo to keep making rods with spliced tips is just a gimmick to make some anglers happy....shell out for them.
I think we have all covered this subject before. But the above is correct from memory. Back in the days of the first carbon rods (Bruce & Walker, Daimura, Sundridge Ashurst) the hollow top sections were very stiff, fierce, by comparison to the best glass rods of the time so splicing in a finer, solid tip provided the cushion which the original tip didn't. Probably also needed because we were so used to using & striking with comparatively mellower/slower glass rods. That said even the Alpha had a spliced Black top to be softer in the tip than the original.
Roll on 40 years and you could have what you like if manufacturers made them. Stiff solid tips and soft hollow tips etc etc. Just because a rod has a spliced tip doesn't necessarily mean it will be softer in that part than a hollow and vice versa. And it doesn't mean it will be softer/ stiffer in the middle or butt either. So if you had a soft spliced tip but also a relatively soft middle the rod's action would be slow. And then a rod with a hollow top and stiffer middle would be a faster action and therefore quicker anyway. Each rod needs to be assessed individually to see if it suits the user. I have picked up Sphere's and they do seem very fierce, very stiff in the lower tip & middle for ME. It's whatever you are used to.
I'd forgotten about the XXX spliced tip - that would be a rare find. One went on ebay a few years ago for about £100, and more recently I saw one sell for about £80 - even with the top couple of inches missing.
There was also a slightly cheaper spliced tip rod in the range at the time, which I owned for several years.
It had the letters "x" ( the weave) and "s" ( the splice) in the name, but I can't recall or trace the full name. XMS?? I bought that - from North West Angling - in 1985 because the Triple X was too dear for me at the time. I was fated to get one though, and 20 years later I picked up an unused XXX for £40, this time the hollow tip version.
mikench
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.....and a lovely light rod it is too !!
I had a look at the spheres last time I was at Bobco, there very nice rods feel to me stiffer in the mid sections than the acolyte. Feel very fast in action and steely in comparison. Must admit the 13 footer had a nicer feel than the longer lenght one 15.6 feet.
The 15.6 feet rod did feel to me more tip heavy than the 15 foot acolyte by quite a bit just my opinion.
Trouble is there a few quid more expensive. That particular day I walked home with a 17ft acolyte which I am starting to really enjoy using. Not sure If I would buy one, as at the moment the rod I am using most is the 15ft acolyte and the sphere just feel more tip heavy so not sure it it would warrant another purchase . But you never know lol.
The 15.6 feet rod did feel to me more tip heavy than the 15 foot acolyte by quite a bit just my opinion.
Trouble is there a few quid more expensive. That particular day I walked home with a 17ft acolyte which I am starting to really enjoy using. Not sure If I would buy one, as at the moment the rod I am using most is the 15ft acolyte and the sphere just feel more tip heavy so not sure it it would warrant another purchase . But you never know lol.
sam vimes
Well-known member
It depends on the rod in question and what the designer was trying to achieve. Primarily, the use of a spliced tip is an effort to make a rod with an action that can't be achieved by other means. Sometimes that will revolve around light line methods, but not always.
I suspect the best analogy I can give you is down to the way you prefer a true pin over a bearing reel yet many feel that your reasons for that are ridiculous. Why some still like a spliced tip rod, but you don't, is pretty much the same scenario.
You've got your own style of fishing/striking and your own experiences of certain spliced tip rods. I very much doubt that any spliced tip rod would offer you any advantage. However, that's quite different from saying that there's no difference and no advantage in them for everyone.
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At the end of the day, if you like something then that's all that matters, i'm not slagging spliced tip rods off.
What I am saying is that I can't see what benifit a spliced tip rod can possibly give you that you can't have with a modern hollow tip rod.
If there is any advantages i'm all ears and i'd very much like to know what they are?
It's a difficult question to answer Ian.
As you know I have had lots of spliced tip rods over the years right back to the early jobs by Bruce and walker. Not all of them were good some were right dogs and bumped fish of the hook like no tomorrow.
Must admit since I purchased the acolyte range I miss them less than I did. The Browning rods are definitely quality mate no doubt about it. But a shop wiggle only gives a brief idea of what a rods really like on the river.
And like I say I could nearly get two acolytes for the price after a bit of bartering in shop.
As you know I have had lots of spliced tip rods over the years right back to the early jobs by Bruce and walker. Not all of them were good some were right dogs and bumped fish of the hook like no tomorrow.
Must admit since I purchased the acolyte range I miss them less than I did. The Browning rods are definitely quality mate no doubt about it. But a shop wiggle only gives a brief idea of what a rods really like on the river.
And like I say I could nearly get two acolytes for the price after a bit of bartering in shop.
sam vimes
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As I said, just the same as some feel about a true pin compared to a bearing reel. You are utterly convinced in the merits of a true pin over a bearing reel. Most think you are bonkers.
I, and others, have said that a spliced tip rod can offer a faster action without making a stronger rod. That allows for less of a sweeping strike and closer control.
However, if you see no value in that, or your style has evolved in a way that doesn't require that, then a spliced tip rod will be of little value to you.
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But a spliced tip doesn't give you a faster action. The tip is purposely made so as to fold and stop line breakages, that's the whole point of a spliced tip.
I remember JWilson describing the differences between the waggler and the spliced tip rods and he said (it's actually printed in several of his books) even all that time ago that with rod manufacturers now being able to replicate the action of a spliced tip section using hollow tips your best to buy a hollow tip rod/waggler rod, and that the hollow tipped waggler rod is far less likely to have the tip break when long trotting, where a powerful sweeping strike is necessary in order to pick up line and drive the hook home.
I know your idea of a waggler rod has a softer mid section to aid in casting, but there are waggler rods with fast/stiffer mid sections also, and those rods have a soft slim tip designed to do exactly the same thing as a splice.
I've no idea if browning do a hollow tip rod in the same line of rod, if so how does that compare to your spliced.
mikench
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I cannot comment on this discussion as its way beyond me. I think my John Allerton is a spliced tip but not sure and I've never trotted with it! I searched on this forum and found many a discussion on the subject and I have pasted a reply to a thread started by Jim Crosskey 2 from someone called Dezza!
Have a look at the Drennan 13ft Ultralight Matchpro. It's every bit as good as the old spliced tip rods and it's lighter, by a good ounce.
There are many other rods of today that are just as good.
Years ago, hollow carbon fibre technology wasn't able to give the fine tips required for delicate roach rods. So they spliced a thin piece of solid glass/carbon composite in at the end of the rod.
If you look around Jim, I am sure you will find what you are looking for, with an action every bit as good as a spliced tip - only better.
And consider this. Years ago some anglers, especially river anglers used hooklengths down to 3/4 lb bs. Very fine tops were necessary to cushion the struggles of a big roach for example. These days we have monofilament lines of the same diameter as those 3/4 lb lines of the 60s that are 2 to 2 1/2 lbs bs.
I remember attempting to fish for the big roach and dace of the Ryton, a small stream in Northern Nottinghamshire. I spent ages sanding down the split cane top of a Spanish Reed roach rod I made for myself at that time. The reason was that it was only when I was able to fish with tiny bits of crust and very fine lines that I was able to get bites.
It looks like the opinions then were as diverse as now!
Have a look at the Drennan 13ft Ultralight Matchpro. It's every bit as good as the old spliced tip rods and it's lighter, by a good ounce.
There are many other rods of today that are just as good.
Years ago, hollow carbon fibre technology wasn't able to give the fine tips required for delicate roach rods. So they spliced a thin piece of solid glass/carbon composite in at the end of the rod.
If you look around Jim, I am sure you will find what you are looking for, with an action every bit as good as a spliced tip - only better.
And consider this. Years ago some anglers, especially river anglers used hooklengths down to 3/4 lb bs. Very fine tops were necessary to cushion the struggles of a big roach for example. These days we have monofilament lines of the same diameter as those 3/4 lb lines of the 60s that are 2 to 2 1/2 lbs bs.
I remember attempting to fish for the big roach and dace of the Ryton, a small stream in Northern Nottinghamshire. I spent ages sanding down the split cane top of a Spanish Reed roach rod I made for myself at that time. The reason was that it was only when I was able to fish with tiny bits of crust and very fine lines that I was able to get bites.
It looks like the opinions then were as diverse as now!
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Some of us still use 3/4lb hooklengths, Sundridge Force to be precise.
I'm getting slightly dizzy with this thread, which seems to come back to the same thing: you either do or you don't find spliced tip rods offer something hollow tip rods don't. I like my spliced tip rods for some uses, and if you tell me you can do that just as well with your own choice.... well, good for you! I won't try and talk you out of it. It's not a matter of proof, although the case for a splice can be reasoned; it's a matter of what you prefer in the actual fishing you do. I'm pretty sure anglers who use spliced tip rods also use, and quite likely more often, hollow tip rods. That's true for me. So they must have their reasons for switching between them. I'm trying to imagine what fishing would be like if we all walked up to each other on the bank and said "You don't use one of those, do you? What's the point? I use a..... "
No way! You must have stashed that away in quantity! I used to love the 1 1/2lb for a stickfloat mainline and a brilliant hooklength, too, but I haven't seen it in ages.
sam vimes
Well-known member
That's what you and John Wilson think, I disagree. I've never been interested in really light lines and pissy little stick floats. I want a spliced tip rod for the action. Besides, it wasn't exactly unheard of for John Wilson to talk complete cobblers occasionally. Frankly, I don't care what John Wilson thought, no matter how much he believed it, or how many times he put it in print. Lets face it, as far as I'm concerned, he put his name to some of the most over rated junk I've ever laid hands on!
:whYes, you can get spliced tip rods that don't have a fast action. The spliced tip canal rods I've encountered certainly don't have a fast action, quite the opposite, but they really are designed for light line fishing. I'm not particularly convinced that the older Daiwa spliced tip rods were especially fast actioned, mine certainly isn't, but that's down to the way they are designed and made. However, they are definitely faster actioned than their contemporary "waggler" designated stable mates. Most of them were made at the time when many matchmen would have been obsessed with using lines of no more than a pound and a half, but you never had to go that light due to the rods. They are quite capable of handling much stronger lines.
Personally, I've never encountered this mythical hollow tipped rod that can perfectly replicate the action of a spliced tip rod. I've encountered the odd one that makes a decent stab at it, but, as a trade off, most are that bit more powerful than is ideal for me. I've been through loads of such hollow tipped fast actioned rods, including the Acolytes, but none of them have quite replicated the action of a spliced tip rod. Some are better than others, but, bar the Acolyte Ultra, they've all been that little bit too powerful further down the blank. The Acolytes are definitely the closest, but still not quite there. The Acolytes fast action is precisely why I consider them to be river rods, and don't tend to use them for stillwater waggler work. As for the Tournament RS, there's a reason that I've never bought one. It's because I thought that they were the epitomy of halfway house, jack of all trades. Neither nowt nor sommat. Plus, they aren't anything special in the weight department. No doubt that will make them absolutely perfect for some people though, good luck to them.
However, your suggestion of a spliced tip being more likely to break with a sweeping strike might be true, but it misses the point entirely. I use a spliced tip rod so that I don't need to use a sweeping strike. I don't want to have to use a sweeping strike, I want to be able to strike with a flicked roll of the wrist. The right spliced tip rod allows me to do this without it being too stiff further down the blank. That's precisely why I still value a good spliced tip rod. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with light lines. If I'm fishing a waggler, where a sweeping strike is the norm, I'll use a waggler rod.
Yes, Browning do a Sphere Waggler rod. Very nice it is too, but the action is quite different to the spliced tip river rods. It's progressive, but more through. It's exactly what I like in a waggler rod, just as the spliced tip river rods fit my idea of a trotting rod. Perhaps they are even the same blank, it's certainly possible, but a well done splice turns the rod into a different beast.
All I can suggest is that you ring Harrisons and/or Tri-Cast to ask why they both still have spliced tip rods in their ranges. If they insist that they can achieve the same actions with a hollow tip, fair enough. We'll all know it's just a big hoax. Maybe they'll just admit it's purely because some folks just prefer the idea of a spliced tip.
However, no matter what they say, I'll still not be giving up on my favoured spliced tip rods. Just as I doubt you'd give up on your true pins even if some authorities on pins told you there was no difference between them and a reel with ball bearings. I don't believe that there's anyone in the world that could shake your preference for a true pin. My preference for a spliced tip is no different, at least until they genuinely come up with a hollow tipped rod that really does replicate the action. As yet, I've seen plenty of folks suggest this rod or the other, but when I've tried them for myself, I've struggled to see what they have.
Yes, and the 1lb and I 1/2lb as well, stocks are dwindling sadly. My alternative hooklength line is Drennan hook-tie but that's running out too.
Keith M
Well-known member
I’ve always believed (and read) that the main advantages to having a spliced tipped stick float rod was that:
A stick float rod usually has a slightly faster action than a waggler rod which enables the angler to pickup the line off of the surface a lot faster and cleaner when they are striking into a fish downstream and when mending their line; in conjunction with a spliced tip to cushion the finer lines and the smaller hooks often needed when after Roach, Dace and other fish on a river.
Whereas waggler rods usually had a slightly softer tip action and the lines were/are usually sunk below the surface anyway as the angler tightens up.
But nowerdays with the more modern rod building techniques they no longer really need to have spliced tips because they can now have compound tapers (if needed) which can do exactly the same job.
Keith
A stick float rod usually has a slightly faster action than a waggler rod which enables the angler to pickup the line off of the surface a lot faster and cleaner when they are striking into a fish downstream and when mending their line; in conjunction with a spliced tip to cushion the finer lines and the smaller hooks often needed when after Roach, Dace and other fish on a river.
Whereas waggler rods usually had a slightly softer tip action and the lines were/are usually sunk below the surface anyway as the angler tightens up.
But nowerdays with the more modern rod building techniques they no longer really need to have spliced tips because they can now have compound tapers (if needed) which can do exactly the same job.
Keith
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mikench
Well-known member
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― Molière, The Misanthrope