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Speak'a dee English!
Spliced tips
- Thread starter dalesman
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Speak'a dee English!
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A spliced tip can't make a rod have a faster action. The spliced tip is soft for cushioning light lines and that's it's purpose.
Regarding a rolling wrist strike, that's a strike that works ok at shorter distances and fishing direct to the rod tip (which is precisely what the spliced tip rod was designed for). If you tried that when fishing across river or at distances your just gonn'a have lots of bumped/not hooked firmly enought to hold fish, or not even pick up enough slack line to pull the float back on the waters surface.
I get the vibe that you think i'm slating the spliced rods but i'm not at all, i'm saying I think they're not as versatile as a hollow tipped rod.
Oh, and yes, i'm quite positive a hollow tipped rod can replicate a splice and with the benifit of no dead spot.....no matter how slight or unnoticeable it may be.
Keith M
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Molière, The Misanthrope 
A spliced tip doesn’t make a rod have a faster action your right tigger; however in this case I’m in agreement with Sam because I have always been led to believe (and I’ve read) that a stick float rod usually has a slightly faster action overall (compared to a waggler rod) with the addition of the finer spliced tip at the end to cushion the finer hooklengths and hooks used.
The advantages of the slightly faster action overall is that it allows the angler to pickup the line a lot cleaner and a lot easier when striking or mending the line as the float goes downstream.
Keith
A spliced tip doesn’t make a rod have a faster action your right tigger; however in this case I’m in agreement with Sam because I have always been led to believe (and I’ve read) that a stick float rod usually has a slightly faster action overall (compared to a waggler rod) with the addition of the finer spliced tip at the end to cushion the finer hooklengths and hooks used.
The advantages of the slightly faster action overall is that it allows the angler to pickup the line a lot cleaner and a lot easier when striking or mending the line as the float goes downstream.
Keith
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Molière, The Misanthrope
Keith
Jiggy jiggy avecmoir!
sam vimes
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Ian, all I can say is that from my perspective, you are wrong on both counts. Every directly comparable waggler and spliced tip stick rod (Sphere Waggler/Sphere Spliced Tip, Daiwa Tom Pickering Matchwinner Waggler/Matchwinner Stick etc etc) I've ever compared has the spliced version having a faster action. I can only assume that if you think otherwise, we have quite different ideas about what constitutes a fast action. It's most definitely not about power.
As far as the roll of the wrist strike goes, I want to be able to do exactly that at 40, 50 yards and beyond. That's exactly what I do, with the right rods. You sweep, I don't, and really don't want to, even at range.
Again, I find the whole "dead spot" (usually referred to as a flat spot) thing rather baffling. I've never seen a flat spot on any decent rod, spliced or otherwise. If they had what my idea of a flat spot is, I'd consider them rubbish rods. However, I've never seen any definition of what exactly a flat spot is. I'll bet that every angler that's heard or used the term will have a different idea of what it is.
Ultimately, I rather suspect that this all revolves around conflicting use of the same terminology. Then it's a matter of personal preference and long term, ingrained technique.
I don't care if no one else wants to use a spliced tip rod, but as yet, I've never encountered a hollow tipped rod that can perfectly replicate the spliced tip action I want. You think otherwise, that's fine. You've yet to suggest a rod, that I'd agree has a faster action. You've mentioned Acolytes, but you know I own several, but still disagree. I often see Normark 2000s proposed, but, though my experience is limited, I always felt they were just a very good halfway house. Great for a do it all rod, but not quite either end of the spectrum.
Of course a spliced tip river rod is not as versatile as a hollow tipped rod, I've certainly not tried to suggest anything of the sort. I'd wince to see one used with a waggler, they just aren't meant for that. However, your descriptions of how spliced tip rods behave bears no relation whatsoever to my ideal spliced tip rods. Flat spots, tips collapsing etc, would be features of rods I'd not give house space to.
I don't particularly think you are slating spliced tip rods. I just think that your own experiences and preferences have tainted your view to such an extent that you have closed your mind to the possibility that not all spliced tip rods are exactly the same.
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I won't go on any longer as maybe that will look like i'm slagging off spliced rods and as i've already said, i'm not.
I will say, I am looking forward to having a waggle of one of the sphere rods if only to satisfy my curiosity.
Forgot to mention, the flat spot. If you push a quivertip into a rod that's to powerful and you bend it you'll see the flat spot easy enough.
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dalesman
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Wow I have really stirred up a hornets nest.
All I asked who makes a spliced tips rods so I can do some home work on manufactures before I part with my hard earned.
All I asked who makes a spliced tips rods so I can do some home work on manufactures before I part with my hard earned.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Absolutely, but if you see a flat spot it's either, a) a drastically mismatched tip to rod/carrier section. b) a dismally poor rod.
To be fair, that was answered by post 2!
As ever, if you want me to raid the horde, I have three thirteen foot(ish) spliced tip rods lurking. You are welcome to have a waggle.
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No matter how good a match, there will always be some difference.
I forgot to answer your question about asking why Harrisons or Tricast why they still make spliced rods....I did speak to Steve Harrison in his workshop and asked about such things. His reply to me was the fewer sections the better, best with none! A splice is just another section.
Do they still make a production spliced tip rod? I'm surprised if they do, infact i'd be surprised if they make any factory float rods anymore....but they may do.
I think for the biggest part Harrisons prefer to supply their blanks to custom rod builders and let them do their thing.
I think we can all pretty much all agree what a flat spot is . A lot of the time it can be seen visual, simply by bending the rod and looking down the blank. Anyone willing to take a stab at describing the detrimental effects of the flat spot and how it effects the hooking rate of the rod in such a way. I have a theory what's going on and why but interested in others takes on this.
sam vimes
Well-known member
A splice is undoubtedly just another section. However, in the real world, few of us can get away with a one piece rod. Many can't countenance the prospect of a two piece 13' rod. I'd also suggest that if you believe that every spliced tip must have a flat spot, then, by the same logic, you'd have to say the same for every other joint in a rod. Personally, I just don't see these flat spots in anything other than badly made, badly designed, or badly mismatched rods.
They either still make spliced tip rods, or there is a load of old stock lying around. Quite a few custom rod makers are still listing spliced tip Harrison float rods. The question that needs asking is why they ever felt the need to make them, regardless of whether they still do. I find it difficult to believe that they'd bother if they could achieve the same action with a hollow tip.
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No doubt there will be flat spots on every joint of a rod, even if not visible there's bound to be one.
I would imagine they will make a rod if there is a demand for it, obviously people such as yourself like them, so if there's a market and money to be made they'll make 'em.
I've noticed over the years quite a few people moaning on the internet that no one makes stick float rods any more and there are very few making 'em. The only ones I can think of who make them nowadays are harrisons, tricast and now browning have spotted a nich for a few extra sales. I can't imagine they'll make a great lot of the spliced tip rods as I don't think the market is there for 'em.
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I would say a flat spot caused by a spliced tip could cause you to loose fish. The soft tip will fold round and then you'll have the flat spot where the blank is stiffer. This may case hook pulls or break offs and defeat the whole idea of a spliced tip.
A flat spot could cause rod breakages when casting or under load.
Those are a couple of issues I imagine a flat spot could cause.
Here's a spliced-tip rod with a big Trent roach attached. Attached to the roach is a big Trent pike. I wouldn't recommend it for pike, but it's lovely tool for roach on the stick.
Yes - the action on this type of rod is mostly higher up the rod. That's a feature, not a fault.
I haven't found a flat-spot problem, but I suppose this type of rod could be in an angler's blind-spot. :wh
Yes - the action on this type of rod is mostly higher up the rod. That's a feature, not a fault.
I haven't found a flat-spot problem, but I suppose this type of rod could be in an angler's blind-spot. :wh
sam vimes
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Any rod that has a flat spot of any significance is a **** rod. A splice well done shouldn't have a flat spot. If it does, it's a **** rod.
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Here's a spliced-tip rod with a big Trent roach attached. Attached to the roach is a big Trent pike. I wouldn't recommend it for pike, but it's lovely tool for roach on the stick.
Yes - the action on this type of rod is mostly higher up the rod. That's a feature, not a fault.
I haven't found a flat-spot problem, but I suppose this type of rod could be in an angler's blind-spot. :wh
My waggler rods bend very much like that until I put them under greater pressure when the bottom sections come into play.
Another word used to describe a fast action float rod that you don't really hear much nowadays is "tippy".
Yes - "tippy" would be a fair description of this one, an old Tri-cast. I think Sam is referring to a much wider range of spliced tip rods than I'm aware of, so I'm only putting the case for the sorts I have had - soft-actioned canal rods and traditional stick/roach rods. This one may not be versatile, and you have to gear up around it - a 1.5 or 2lb reel line, with a good bit of stretch, light floats etc - Then, I think it complements that style much more nicely than the various hollow tip rods I could use. But each to his own, and all that.
From my rod building days. What I found produced a flat spot was a couple of things,one was a spliced in tip which was to soft at the transition joint section which produced a tip to flex and bottom out and not produce a smooth transition of curve through the tip section. So in reality it was a bad match of rod tapers. The other was a spliced in section longer than necessary over the standard splice length of 1 1/2 " which in turn made the blank non flexing at the joint. A lot of the early spliced tip rods had these problems before it was realised what was happening on and just after the strike. So why does it lead to fish getting off?
sam vimes
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Under the load of playing a decent fish, there shouldn't necessarily be a great deal of difference between a waggler rod and a spliced tip rod of comparable power. It's when they aren't under any great load, casting, retrieving and the initial part of the strike, that the differences should show.
You don't need to load a rod to see how fast the action is. A rod that remains fast actioned during a fight is not particularly desireable, though I happily acknowledge that more than the odd spliced tip rod over the years has been exactly like this (bloody awful). A good side to side waggle should be enough to see. You can see where on the rod the tip wants to flex from. On each of the spliced tip rods I own, that's higher up the blank on the directly comparable waggler rod from the same manufacturer and range. i.e. They are faster actioned. A big problem in this is that many percieve the faster action as more power, but it isn't necessarily the case.
However, if the spliced tip rod only flexes from the splice, it'll probably be a pretty nasty rod to use. It'll probably live up to all the bad impressions some have of spliced tip rods. The tip hasn't been integrated properly into the rest of the blank. It might manifest in the tip collapse that you've been describing, or it might feel like a poker with a screw in quiver tip attached. Either way, it's not a good rod.