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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    New skills are also being gained that the "Masters" of yesteryear never even had .....spodding, hair rigs, understanding why bolt rigs work, , fish welfare, better understanding of watercraft & species location (and not blindly following Crabtree advice), line concealment, tackle developments, bait advancements....to name just some.

    What skills EXACTLY are being "lost" ?

    Float fishing ? ...nope, loads still do it, its not that difficult.. ..trotting ?...nope....loads still do it , its not that difficult..touch ledgering ? ...nope, loads still do it, its not that difficult....even using a centerpin...more popular today than ever.

    Lets get real here. Very few skills are actually being lost..they are being recycled and some get less popular for a period of time while new skills and better understanding are being added continually.
    Spodding is not a skill,it's lobbing a brick that is on a clip,so most anglers don't have be able to cast accurately,hair rigging is something that is and was a major revolution in rigging,what's being lost....yes float fishing knowledge,not in total no,but the ability to know why you use shottings for various conditions and fish habits,your comment about float fishing leads me to think how many do,just because an angler has a float on means he is doing it something like right,in reality this is rarely the case,wrong float choice for job/conditions,wrong shotting,too small or large a float,there are skills in feeder fishing,fishing in general,let be honest here,once a decent carp angler has used watercraft to find the best place to set his traps,sensible baiting will lead to fish,even on shop bought rigs. Please believe in the fact that a float angler,using watercraft,feeding properly,with the right float,shotting,control ect has a lot of knowledge skill that only a small amount of float anglers have,in fact it shows it's being lost because these days you can't buy floats to do certain jobs,you have to make them yourself...

    Line concealment,often only needed because of ridiculously heavy line and leads,how many carp fisheries are there where carp are spooked by too many heavy lines in the water,backleading is often not the answer,because most lakes don't have clean,or even enough bottoms to get the benefits,slack lines,fluorocarbon lines,right lines,but very often the guy that sticks to one sound approach catches as many carp as the guy with all the flashy stuff,why,because when carp feed you get some,even on super hard waters with bog standard tackle with rigs,baits that are supposedly blown,that said one thing is written in stone,good anglers catch fish in whatever branch of the sport their in,because they use their brains to their advantage and fair play to them.

    Watercraft has always been used by anglers,that caught fish,crikey,40 years ago or more we used it to know where fish would be and how to approach the bank,these days many just roll up with a barrow and set up home,don't get me wrong I'm glad that people enjoy this sort of fishing,I'm equally happy to say I dont,enjoy your fishing Philip.
    Last edited by whitty; 11-06-2019 at 05:37.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    It immaterial how basic a skill you think Spodding is, its still a skill the Trent otter to name but one didn’t have so you can argue it from which ever direction you like for as long as you like and you will still be wrong.

    As for your example of people not not knowing how to shot or choose a float its no different to the angler who blindly ties all his bolt rigs up in one material at one length with no thought whatsoever. I am sure you will dismiss that as not skillful so don’t be offended if I suggest a float angler is simply sliding shot up and down the line. Its easy to pour scorn on things when you want to.

    As for a Carp angler who “once he has located the fish” just needs to set a trap and wait, its no differet for the float angler. Once he has “located the fish” just need to run his float through enough times till they slip up. The point being Alan, if your willing to dismiss it just as a question of time then it applies to ALL branches of angling. Do it long enough and it will work in the end.

    Bottom line ....tell me even 1 skill the Trent otter had that has been “lost” ? …and I’ll give you 10 new ones we have today that he didn’t have.

    I'll stop there because we will never see eye to eye on this

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    No we wont,mainly because the difference in skill level is immense and saying 'just running the float though enough' shows an extreme lack of knowledge,we have crossed swords before on several similar issues and sadly you cannot see ,or understand the multitude of facets that make for the best possible session on the float,let alone a season,I'm not saying there isn't a lot to know in carp fishing,I am however saying that there is a lot more to know and do,just to fish on the float correctly,on every different venue,as I said earlier Philip,enjoy your fishing,that means the fishing that you do....

    Just to add,several of my mates are carp anglers,pretty good ones,each of them has differing opinions on what rigs are best,as in all fisherman,on thinking tackle a guy sponsored by Korda fishes by his own admission basic,strong,reliable tackle,his hooklinks in the main are almost always nylon,he uses older out of fashion mainline boilies,he fished hard waters,with few carp targeting big carp,yet he catches as good as anyone,I appreciate the challenge and am quite well acquainted with lots of angling skills,because I like to learn...
    Last edited by whitty; 12-06-2019 at 05:00.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    It has nothing to do with Carp Alan.
    Last edited by Philip; 12-06-2019 at 07:18. Reason: Changed my mind

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    Float fishing the margins is one of my favourite ways to fish
    seeing the water cloud up as a tench or carp root about adds to the excitement for me
    PaSC British by birth, English by the grace of God
    I got the devil in my blood,Telling' me what to do
    (And I'm all ears), Britain's premier bread angler

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    It has nothing to do with Carp Alan.
    Just the physics of the rig then,ok,these days hair rigging is just a.n.other method,today much to my annoyance I was catching roach on the method feeder with 12mms pellets and boilies,I could have increased the length of the hair,but then the bream and tench start to be missed too,the roach weren't bad size,6-12 ozs,but I'd rather catch them on the float.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    So fish for them with the float then.

    And stop trying to convince me its more skillful than any other branch of angling as a blanket default statement because you cannot determine skill based on the species or the rig used alone.
    Last edited by Philip; 12-06-2019 at 19:13.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    I will do what I like Philip,if you don't want to debate,then dont,I'm not a thirteen year old in wolf's clothing,you are the one asking me what skills have been lost don't forget,without accepting float fishing is a big skill,all fishing is relatable in results to knowledge and skill,but whether you or me like it or not some require more skill/knowledge than others,with probably fly fishing(in all its forms together)requiring the most,not if you only lure fish for trout,but nymph,dry,wets,buzzers,short light line rods up with double taper lines,up to weight forward 10's with sinking,floating and intermediate lines.float fishing is often done by anglers that only fish a water in the margins,or trot a stick float,these are just a small part of the skill of float fishing,being able to do the lot is a lot of information,and there are a large number that can and hats off to them,but just go and enjoy your own style of fishing Philip...
    Last edited by whitty; 13-06-2019 at 12:31.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    Your getting personal again Alan. You have done it a number of times across various threads now. As someone who I suspect would take very badly indeed to personal comments himself you really should re-think doing that.

    I am very happy to debate Alan if you want to stick to facts, avoid personal comments and stop putting words in my mouth.

    Fact : At no point have I said float fishing does not require skill. All I did was apply your own one size fits all statement about it just being about locating the fish then spending time doing it to get results.
    Fact : It was you that said skills had been lost and I then I responded to that.
    Fact : Its impossible to determine the skill level of a type of angling based on the species or the tackle alone which you did.

    In your example of the Trout, your now your beginning to embellish your example with more information rather than apply a blanket statement that one branch of angling is more skillful than another as you did before.
    It still misses a huge amount of information to be able to make any meaningful measure of skill compared to another branch of angling.

    ...For example ; type of venue, angler pressure, angling pressure on fish, physical access to the venue, Physical make up of the venue ..snags, weeds, bars, other species present, technique used, tackle used, bait used plus 1001 other variables would all need to be considered to even begin to determine what is more skillful.

    Statements such as your “Carp fishing” is less skillful than “float fishing” are so baseless, pointless and glib that they are either from someone who is intentionally trying to be a PITA or is allot less experienced than they think.
    Last edited by Philip; 13-06-2019 at 11:26.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Modern fishing, a joyless experience?

    I haven't got personal,because I have not abused you in any way,shape of form,I have fished regularly at times on a very wide spectrum of our sport,sea,game and course,I don't claim to be an expert in any one,but I'm proficient in several,if you don't talk in specifics then you show no proficiency,you try to entice a nibble and don't like it when your buzzer sounds in lieu of a bite,enjoy your fishing Philip...

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