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  1. #51

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterjg View Post
    I think that some factors are being missed here:

    Now many anglers consider float legering a crude and ungainly method but it is actually very efficient. You use a small delicate float which is set up slightly over depth. It is carefully shotted low down in the water with the shot near the float. The leger is actually a single SSG shot which is on a very short link with a small bead (not a swivel or Drennan ring). The leger stop is a large size float stop which rests on the loop knot on the end of your reel line. A 6 inch hook length is attached loop to loop. A fish picks up your bait and because there is only minimal movement allowed the float goes under, minimal resistance from float and also leger. As a test put a leger weight on a link with a swivel and then a link with a bead, hold the reel line in both hands and make the leger weight slide backwards and forwards, you will find that the link with the bead slides much freer and with much less resistance.
    For crucians - if I can find anywhere to fish for them these days - I tend to go for a "dotted" fine-tip float at dead depth or just over. But your float leger point is a good one.

    An unlikely-looking rig that has often worked better than anything else for "big" (12 oz + where I fish) roach involves a short piece of thin peacock, double rubber, fished flat on the surface, with a couple of shot, maybe 2 no4 or2BB, on a link tied on (not even sliding) above a 12" hooklength. Why it works so well, I don't know, but fish that will give you cautious bites you're prone to miss on conventional rigs will bury the float ...... perhaps because it give such a still, stable presentation. It was particularly useful when there was tow on the water or pull on the canal, and can be used with a pole, too.

    I picked up the idea from a book by Kevin Ashurst where he described a flat-float rig he used on occasions, with shot either off or on the bottom. He said he didn't know why it worked - just that it did!

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    3,827

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    That kind of fits in with what I said earlier in this thread. Freelining a couple of rod lengths out with nothing more than a couple of bb anywhere between 12 and 36 inches from the hook and just using a bit of slack in the line as an indicator, sometimes they’ll take that but not from under a float.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    I agree Kevin Ashurst book is a very good read very practical and no nonsense
    Used the flat float myself and like said it can be amazingly effective sometimes.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    There
    Posts
    4,980

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    As I started reading your flat float post the name of Kevin Ashurst popped into my head. Great minds think alike
    I wonder if he is still about.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by john step View Post
    As I started reading your flat float post the name of Kevin Ashurst popped into my head. Great minds think alike
    I wonder if he is still about.
    I'd like to know, too. Latest mention I found online was this profile

    Kevin Ashurst: the master | Angling histories | Fishing | Canal & River Trust

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eltham, SE London
    Posts
    3,983

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    I fish differently to the ways described here. I think it was Jerry who told me about the Glow tip antennas a few years ago at Marsh farm. I like them but they seem a bit fragile. I keep intending to make some with carbon fibre antennas but haven’t got around to it yet. I put a larger than usual dropper very near the hook. I fish dead depth and put the shot within 25-30mm from the hook. It doesn’t look right but the fish don’t care and bites are far more positive than with a conventional set up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    I don't know if anyone has found the same problem with carbon antenna as me but I find it can prevent the float from cocking efficiency overweighting the float and in effect making it tip heavy which is something you can get away with on bigger floats,on smaller pattern for me it does not work very well.
    Hence my reason for a very light quill insert antenna.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    467
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by trotter2 View Post
    I don't know if anyone has found the same problem with carbon antenna as me but I find it can prevent the float from cocking efficiency overweighting the float and in effect making it tip heavy
    A 1mm carbon stem weighs fractionally less, about 7.5% than a painted 1.6mm hollow bristle. Maybe it 'sticks' to the water more so than a painted bristle?

    Thinking about it a bit more it won't have as much buoyancy as a 1.6mm bristle having less volume which may be the problem rather than the in air weight.
    Last edited by wetthrough; 11-06-2019 at 06:35.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterjg View Post
    I write this at risk of ridicule. For very shy bites try float-legering with a SSG shot as the weight on a short sliding link. The small waggler is shotted down with shots near the float. Fish very slightly over depth with a 6 inch hooklink. I was amazed at how sensitive this rig is and how hittable the bites are!

    Float-legering is old fashioned and looked upon as a bit of a crude method but all those years ago Bill Penny had it right.
    I've enlarged the (to me) important bit - too many people used to just put a float on, with no weight other than the ledger, then wonder why they weren't catching, and abandon the method. Ya gotta do the physics!

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    467
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Floats for shy biting fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Tyler View Post
    I've enlarged the (to me) important bit - too many people used to just put a float on, with no weight other than the ledger, then wonder why they weren't catching, and abandon the method. Ya gotta do the physics!
    I'm going to give this a try at some point but I've been wondering about "shots near the float". Why near the float? Doesn't it make casting a bit clumsy?

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