Right,a moan about spade end hooks...

[108831]

Right guys,on the venues im fishing im have issues not with the strength of the hooks im using,but the size of the spade,I bought(on recommendation)some kamasan B911's,a barbless hook thats not too thick in the wire so as to put off the tackle shy big roach and dace present,now im fishing 0.12mm hooklinks which is light on the venue for the chub and barbel,but at times not light enough for the former,anyway im having issues of the knot wanting to slip off the spade on 0.12mm,there is a strict barbless only rule and some bailiffs wont accept nipped barbs,why oh why produce a size 20(which is really an 18)where the spade wont hold 0.12mm,I have carbon chub hooks that would never suffer this,but are barbed,I know Ian uses Animals and superspades but they are too heavy on this small river for the roach and dace,they really are crafty and very big....any suggestions,spade end only please,eyed need not apply,lol...

 

[trotter2]

Not a hook I use on the river,but see no reason why 0.12 should not hold on a size 20. Is the knot forming properly mate?.

 

[bracket]

Whitty. I had this problem long ago when I was asked to tie size 20s on to 4lb maximum. I resolved it by putting ten whippings on the shank, pulling the knot tight to the spade then sealed the knot with cellulose dope, applied with a cocktail stick. Seemed to work OK and I had no complaints. Super glue could work but I don't think it's waterproof. Pete

 

[rich66]

I’d have said superglue too, some are waterproof we used to stick corals down with it when we had marine tanks

 

[sam vimes]

I've never had such a problem when using Drennan Silverfish Maggot or Guru F1 Maggot. The line I use when fishing these hooks is typically 0.095mm to 0.15mm. I rarely use Kamasan hooks. Despite them being a Drennan owned brand, they aren't as widely available locally.

 

[trotter2]

I would not go down the root of using superglue going to be a right faff about . Back to the days of whipping hooks on with silk thread . If your confident its not your tying techniques I would change the model of hooks.

 

[tigger]

I dont use hooks smaller than an 18's very often at all. When I have used size 20's i've never had a problem with what you describe Alan. I have some 20s hooks tied to 3lb, 4lb and 5lb prestons and silstar mono and they're fine.
Maybe use a lower diameter line with finer hooks which will bend out should you hook a larger fish?

Oh, I wouldn't mess about with superglue myself.

 

[108831]

Not a hook I use on the river,but see no reason why 0.12 should not hold on a size 20. Is the knot forming properly mate?.

Ive only had the problem once before and that was on drennan wide gape 20's,fine on 18's,they are a small spade,trouble is its the coils that grip the line to the spade,it maybe a bad batch,i have no trouble with 22's in a few patterns on the same line,i may have to try the ten turns route Pete suggests as maybe that would give more holding power,been tying hooks for years without many problems,I always clinch the knot and pull it into position,i tighten the tag end and the spade side,im certain spade sizes are inadequate on many patterns....

 

[rayner]

If you are unhappy with the pattern you are using you know how to solve it.
Dope is superior to super glue, super glue is a terrible product in my opinion for fishing-related problems where hooks are concerned.
Could try a snell knot.

 

[108831]

I dont use hooks smaller than an 18's very often at all. When I have used size 20's i've never had a problem with what you describe Alan. I have some 20s hooks tied to 3lb, 4lb and 5lb prestons and silstar mono and they're fine.
Maybe use a lower diameter line with finer hooks which will bend out should you hook a larger fish?

Oh, I wouldn't mess about with superglue myself.

The animals and superspades wouldnt be a problem in a 20 Ian,spades are of a good size....

 

[john step]

I have had this problem. Upon advice on here several years ago I went to 911s from 611s and the problem largely went away until there was a balance between line thickness and hook size. I tend to use heavier breaking strains nowadays than when I club match fished when my standard hooklengths were bayer 1.1 and 1.7.

I use Superspades (bigger spade)with heavier bottoms and try to negate the extra weight by camouflage with a maggot first threaded up the shank or alternatively a floating plastic maggot and a real one.

 

[108831]

Drennan in their infinite wisdom have stopped producing the barbless version of the superspade,it may have happened years ago,my personal preference would be to use my drennan carbon chub's and crush the barbs....no problems on the spade front or strength....

 

[Richox12]

Never had a problem tying 0.12 to a 20 - almost any type of 20. B911 included. Is the 0.12 really 0.12 ?

Which way do you whip - up or down the shank ? By hand or hooktyer ?? They can be different knots.

? How many coils ? I tend to use a minimum of 6 on 0.06mm line and then increase up to 10 turns on 0.10 and keep at 10 turns on anything higher as well.

Barbless Super Spade still exist they are called Margin Carp.

 

[sam vimes]

Drennan in their infinite wisdom have stopped producing the barbless version of the superspade,it may have happened years ago,my personal preference would be to use my drennan carbon chub's and crush the barbs....no problems on the spade front or strength....

I've got some bad news for you, Carbon Chub also went the way of the dodo several years ago. I don't know if it was reincarnated like the Barbless Super Spade was into the Barbless Margin Carp.

Here is the current range of spades from Drennan.
Spade End Hooks | Drennan International
Wide Gape Match would be the big miss for me.

 

[dicky123]

Ian. Can I suggest an eyed hook tied with the knotless knot? It will open up a world of other hooks, some light too.

I've used the new Natural hooks, but find they blunt too easy. But the newer spade Guru maggot hook is barbless and fine, regarding strength they are enough I'd say for better fish. They also do a pellet that's good for maggot also. I've only gone as small as 16s however. Guru are my preferred hook right now buddy? But if I'm only after big roach you can beat the classics from Drennan? Rich.

 

[tigger]

If there's nothing that you fancy in drennans range try taking a look at mustads range, they do some excellent hooks in barbless spade ends.

 

[Paste paul]

I had the exact same problem with the B911 pattern...... I now use B611 which work beautifully they also seem more like a silver fish hook ( a bit lighter) this could be me though.
The gape is wider and slightly different in shape but still works well....
I very rarely go to a size 20 in all fairness but if I do I go with a B611
Hope this helps

 

[108831]

I've got some bad news for you, Carbon Chub also went the way of the dodo several years ago. I don't know if it was reincarnated like the Barbless Super Spade was into the Barbless Margin Carp.

Here is the current range of spades from Drennan.
Spade End Hooks | Drennan International
Wide Gape Match would be the big miss for me.

I have many boxes(yes boxes)of carbon chubs,might well see me out,my grandfather in law gave me his entire stock when he sold out and retired,he has been gone quite a few years now and i still have plenty,thankfully...

 

[108831]

I had the exact same problem with the B911 pattern...... I now use B611 which work beautifully they also seem more like a silver fish hook ( a bit lighter) this could be me though.
The gape is wider and slightly different in shape but still works well....
I very rarely go to a size 20 in all fairness but if I do I go with a B611
Hope this helps

All helps mate,especially as you had the problem,the trouble is im catching good sized fish on them,the hook itself isnt the issue,the spade is however and as you cant hook decent chub and barbel in small rivers without a tustle everything has to be right.

Funnily enough i really like guru hooks and ive looked at the F1 hooks online...the first thing i will look at in my future searches will be the spade,so it will have to be n a tackle shop.

 

[tigger]

I think Chris must have forgotton to mention the browning hooks. I can't think of the names of them but no doubt if he sees this Chris will name them for you. He put me on to the micro barbed versions but there may well be barbless in the same, or similar hooks made by browning.

I've just had a quick nosey and they do make the beast spade dend hook in barbless also, there are some on ebay.