Doubled Up Pole Elastic

[Stealph Viper]

Hello Everyone,

It has just come to my attention that a lot of anglers seem to be using doubled up pole elastic in thier pole top kits.

What are the advantages and disadvantages to setting up your top kits this way ?

Also, how do you set these doubled up elastics in your top kits, i have an idea of how i think it would be done, i am just seeking other peoples knowledge and perhaps experience in setting them up.

Have you tried it, if not do you think you would be willing to?

Obviously if you don't fish with a pole then perhaps this thread is not for you, but feel free to join in if you feel you can contribute to it.

Tight Lines

 

[peter crabtree]

Hi Steph, this started about 2 or 3 years ago. To set it up...
for example doubled up no 5 elastic. Get your wire and thread the laccy through your top 2 - 3 -1. then thread on your connector/stonfo, thread the tag end back through the top and so forming a loop and you end up with two tag ends at the bung end. tie the bung onto both tag ends and trim as necessary.

IMHO another marketing ploy by manufacturers to sell more laccy........

never tried it personally but some swear by it.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Thanks Peter,

I didn't realise it started so long ago, perhaps i am just so out of touch with fishing and it's Fads.

I spoke to a guy the other week who was using a doubled up Number 4 elastic in his top kit, i didn't really want to pester him on how and why he used it as i didn't want to disturb his fishing.

I thought i might like to give it a try, in say a 4, 5 and 6 as i think that would cover a lot of my fishing.

Thank you for your reply.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:44 ----------

What i thought i would do is, thread a connector on to the elastic, double the elastic over so that it is even lengths, tie an over hand knot in the ends of the elastic so that it forms 1 large loop of elastic, thread this through the top kit and then connect it to the Bung, is this the correct way of doing it?

 

[sagalout]

Why not just use a heavier elastic?

I can see that if you double the bottom half you would still get the original "strength" at the top and a "stronger" elastic as the top starts to bottom out, but I dont see the point of doubled all the way thruogh.

In fact if the memory is functioning correctly (not always the case on a sunday evening :w) I think there was an article on this very site about pole elasticating that showed a graph of resistance against stretch using a doubled bottom.

I hope this makes sense (not always the case on a sunday evening :w).

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Double elastics go back many years, we were doing that with No 8 elastics in the early 90's when it was the biggest one made. These days it is only done with light elastics, No.2's and 3's usually when fishing for small fish but getting the odd bigger one such as a bream. There are elastics for every occasion now and doubled up elastic is strictly for match anglers who know what are going to catch and can't afford to lose fish or play them too long, even the odd one.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

I've seen the double up version you're talking about but never tried it, I'm happy using the older version of a 10" doubled up section at the bung end, makes more sense to me having the power build gradually as the lacy is stretched.

 

[sagalout]

Just remembered I saw this the other day, the Maver (can I have afree top kit please) Muletto

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ofu5WoCUOM&feature=PlayList&p=E59114479BC285D0&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=13"]YouTube- Paste Fishing & Muletto demonstration[/nomedia]

Costs about £6 without a topkit.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Thems old hat, this is what is used now, both my carp top threes have this set up

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

I didn't realise it started so long ago,

Like Graham says, many years ago. Keith Arthur used it for many years, perhaps still does.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

The practice of doubling up the No. 8 elastics started in the Irish festivals when they were fishing to hand for bream, it saved time playing the fish especially on the Shannon and the Erne systems. Early doors when it first started being used regularly there weren't any of these carp lakes, well not in the match fishing world there weren't but it worked on our rivers for chub and maybe even the odd small barbel and remember that 11 and 12.5 mtr poles were the norm in those days too. Personally I preferred just the single elastic but I rarely if ever used a pole in river matches, much preferring the traditional stick or waggler.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Ahhhhh, back when powergum was threaded through instead of elastic

 

[Stealph Viper]

Well folks, it may be an old technique that is under a revival.

I have just found this clip of Steve Ringer using doubled up elastic, it explains it quite well if anyone wants to have a watch.

I think i will give it a go in my top kits as it does have some versatility to just putting in a heavier single elastic.

Steve Ringer on elasticating a pole top kit

 

[Stealph Viper]

Why not just use a heavier elastic?

I can see that if you double the bottom half you would still get the original "strength" at the top and a "stronger" elastic as the top starts to bottom out, but I dont see the point of doubled all the way thruogh.

Hello Sagalout, Long time no type

After looking in to this doubling up of elastic a little more, it would appear that the advantage to just using a single heavier elastic is thus -: The doubled up elastic starts off softer when it is being stretched and then progressively gets stronger, this allows for the hooking of smaller fish without them being bumped off, but if a larger fish should come along during the course of your days fishing, it still allows you the power to play the fish and land it (well within reason anyway).
A bit like the Hollow Elastics, but without the extra stretch where they have to use a pulla bung to gather in the extra stretched out elastic.

Ideal i think if you have only say 3 top kits in your pole, you could have a 4,6 and 8 elastic in your pole and catch fish of all different sizes.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Have you been having problems bumping or pulling out of fish Steph? you've got to keep in mind that a lot of these techniques are devised as a matchfishing method, F1's, tench and stockie carp through to the double figure fish require methods and techniques as well as tackle modification to get the edge on the guy at the next peg, this isn't the case for pleasure angling. If you're not getting through the match weights or seen your catch rates drop why change for the sake of it?

If your 3 top kits are fitted with 4, 8, 12, you'll land the same range of fish using half the amount of elastic, less of the tip cut back, less weight in the top section and you are able to spot when the elastic needs changing easier.

 

[Stealph Viper]

If your 3 top kits are fitted with 4, 8, 12, you'll land the same range of fish using half the amount of elastic, less of the tip cut back, less weight in the top section and you are able to spot when the elastic needs changing easier.

I see where you are coming from Rodney, but you do not have the versatility you would have with a doubled up elastic, as a No4 elasitc when being used is still only a No4 elastic, this is why people use the Hollo elastics, as it has more versatility but it does cost more than normal elastic.

As for my top kits, i usually cut them all back to the same length regardless of the size of elastic, i also then cut my cupping kit back to this length, all my kits are then the same length and it is just the elastic that varies.

I like the sound of the versatility a doubled up elastic gives, having a No4 elastic through my top kits that also has the strength to land larger fish sounds perfect to me, as i never know what i am going to catch.

Surely if matchmen are using it, it's because it is versatile enough to suit a lot of situations, why can't pleasure fishermen adopt this way of fishing, i know that you are not saying that, i am just generally talking out loud now, but why do people say that it only really helps matchmen or match fishing situations ??

 

[Graham Whatmore]

There is no problem in employing double elastics but as Rodney says it is a matchman's ploy for specific types of fisheries, i.e. if they target smaller fish thinking that is the most reliable way of achieving a winning weight but capable of handling any bigger fish that grab the bait. It is mainly used during winter when the carp aren't so readily caught and only silvers are feeding.

Most average pole users pleasure fishing can successfully handle smaller carp up to 10 lb on elastics that can be used for silver fish, I use a Preston 6 - 8 for this very purpose and have landed carp up to 9lb on them, it just takes a bit longer and time isn't what a match angler wastes.

Golden rule of fishing - keep it simple!

 

[Stealph Viper]

I agree, it is probably more of a benefit when you're targetting all manor of species of fish and trying to compile a large weight of fish.

I shall try it out on 1 of my top kits, say a No4 elastic doubled up, i do have a spare one as such so i can use that.
If it suits me i can then adopt it to the rest of my top kits, thanks for your input chaps, it has given me food for thought.

Any other ideas and hints, keep them coming i am always open to ideas.

 

[Mark Wintle]

All you will achieve with full doubled no. 4 elastic is the equivalent of no. 6 elastic. If you want better shock absorption then you need a hollow elastic which is why nearly all of my pole fishing is now done with hollow elastic. I don't use over 10-12 normally. When I worked on our pole book I did a lot of research into elastics, the length used and types. Keeping it simple is best but there is a lot to it. Some non-hollow elastic is better than others; I use a Maver one that is very good

 

[Stealph Viper]

Hello Mark,

The reason i don't use Hollow Elastic is generally because of the Expense (I'm a Tight Git).

Would you use say, Hollow elastics in the Lighter versions and say a Normal Elastic in the Higher Grades due to the amount os Stretch, i realy don't fancy using a Pulla Bung or some over type of Contraption to hand line my elastic.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

I see where you are coming from Rodney, but you do not have the versatility you would have with a doubled up elastic, as a No4 elasitc when being used is still only a No4 elastic, this is why people use the Hollo elastics, as it has more versatility but it does cost more than normal elastic.

I don't subscribe to that theory Steph, doubled up size 4 elastic is no longer just a grade 4 elastic, it's not possible that it could be, it now requires more force to bottom it out, it is perceived as softer than a grade 8 because it isn't tensioned to the extent of the single length. I'm sure it will work fine in practice but I struggle to see the necessity?

As for my top kits, i usually cut them all back to the same length regardless of the size of elastic, i also then cut my cupping kit back to this length, all my kits are then the same length and it is just the elastic that varies.

I use my kits for specific species and so they are bushed for their graded elastic, I will fish and feed several swims and won't use all sections in the one swim so cutting them all back to the same size is something else I've never done. I want as little space for grit and other detrius to get in around the elastic as possible. For feeding, I use a pole pot on each section but my main cupping kit I just feed my selected swims at the start and I've never had an issue with it not being the exact size as my top 3 kits, the fish don't hide in such a small area that it really matters.

I like the sound of the versatility a doubled up elastic gives, having a No4 elastic through my top kits that also has the strength to land larger fish sounds perfect to me, as i never know what i am going to catch.

Surely if matchmen are using it, it's because it is versatile enough to suit a lot of situations, why can't pleasure fishermen adopt this way of fishing, i know that you are not saying that, i am just generally talking out loud now, but why do people say that it only really helps matchmen or match fishing situations ??

As I said earlier mate, I don't doubt it will catch fish but i.m.o. it's another fad, you will perhaps have noticed some of the top match lads who have been on the hollow elastic or doubled up elastic are now going back to solid latex, this was popular before all the coloured versions became vogue. All I'm saying is that yes if you double a No4 laccy, yes, it will catch your target fish and it will let you land other outsized fish, but so will a softly set single length of No6.