Leader advise for a #4 for trout

[greenerpastures]

Hi everyone, I am new to flyfishing and need some advise on how to construct
a suitable leader.
I have a 7'6" Agility Rise, I want to fish for trout in a small river, 40/50 ft wide,
with lots of obstructions, fishing mainly from bank, or wading a little when water is low.
The average trout is 3/4lb the odd 1lb and the rare 1.5lb fish.

I bought a #4 Barrio Smallstream floating line, and I have some 4' furlded
leaders, which I hope to use.
My question is, if I add maybe 2ft of 3lb Stroft for a tippet,
then add another 4 or 5 ft of heavier stroft via a loop
to the furled leader and a surgeons knot to the tippet,
will this cover my needs, an if you all think using 3lb stroft mono for my tippet is indeed good enough,
then could you suggest what diameter of stroft mono I should use to
join the 3lb tippet to my 4' furled leader, and what length it should finish up.
OR should I just use 4 to 5ft of 4lb all the way from my furled leader to the hook
given its small diameter is less than a 6x tippet anyway at only 0.12mm.
Below is a chart of the stroft mono and as you can see this line is really thin
for its breaking strain, so taking this into account, what do you all advise me to use to construct my tippet.

1kg 2.2lb 0.08mm €6.10
1.4kg 3lb 0.10mm €6.10 is this heavy enough for 3/4 to 1lb trout tippet
1.8kg 4lb 0.12mm €6.50
2.3kg 5lb 0.14mm €6.80 is this ok to join tippet to my 4' furled leader
3kg 6lb 0.16mm €7.40
3.6kg 8lb 0.18mm €7.85
4.2kg 10lb 0.20mm €8.15
5.1kg 12lb 0.22mm €8.45
6.4kg 14lb 0.25mm €8.65
7.3kg 16lb 0.28mm €9.50
8.1kg 18lb 0.30mm €10.45
10.5kg 23lb 0.35mm €11.90
14kg 30lb 0.40mm €11.90

Thanks & Regards, john

 

[S-Kippy]

I wouldn't mess about constructing a stepped leader. I'd just go straight through.

Stroft wouldn't be my choice of tippet material either. It's a bit too supple and you really want a bit of stiffness to help turn things over and avoid tangles. I have used it and I found it lost a lot of strength when knotted and didn't hold up to sudden shocks very well.......but you should be OK given the size of fish you're expecting. Too fine a diameter will cause you problems as it will blow all over the place, won't store the energy of the cast to turn things over and will tangle.....none of which are good for somebody new to the game.

 

[greenerpastures]

I wouldn't mess about constructing a stepped leader. I'd just go straight through.

Stroft wouldn't be my choice of tippet material either. It's a bit too supple and you really want a bit of stiffness to help turn things over and avoid tangles. I have used it and I found it lost a lot of strength when knotted and didn't hold up to sudden shocks very well.......but you should be OK given the size of fish you're expecting. Too fine a diameter will cause you problems as it will blow all over the place, won't store the energy of the cast to turn things over and will tangle.....none of which are good for somebody new to the game.

Hi S-Kippy,
Its good to hear of your experience with this material, I guess for short tippet
lengths in the right hands it sounds ideal, but as a beginner I think I will take
your advise, someone on another forum said the same regarding its use for a beginner, I was just so taken by its thin diameter for stealthiness.
Talking about weight alone, using any tippet material, what weight would you recommend for the 3/4 to 1lb trout
in the stroft chart above, ie, 3lb or 4lb for a tippet, and would I go a size heavier on my #5 rod and line for the lakes
where the fish are same size, say to cover both river and lake, a 3 and 4lb spool, or a 4 and 5lb spool.

Thanks for posting, Regards, john

 

[S-Kippy]

John

No disrespect intended but as you are just starting out the best advice anybody can offer you is to keep things simple. I might start on 4lb and be prepared to go down to 3 lb on the river but maybe not on the lake.

Even smallish trout can hit flies hard and that will test your knots so the fewer of those there are the better. As I said, in my experience Stroft once knotted doesn't handle sudden shocks desperately well and I'd be thinking of a leader material with a bit more "give" in it...even if that means its thicker. Trout are greedy devils generally and unless they are exceptionally cute I don't think you'd need to go as fine as 0.12 Stroft.

To be fair the trout that found me out were a good deal bigger than those you are targeting and it was by no means every other fish BUT it happened often enough for me to abandon Stroft for something a bit more robust.

Good luck

Skippy

 

[greenerpastures]

John

No disrespect intended but as you are just starting out the best advice anybody can offer you is to keep things simple. I might start on 4lb and be prepared to go down to 3 lb on the river but maybe not on the lake.

Even smallish trout can hit flies hard and that will test your knots so the fewer of those there are the better. As I said, in my experience Stroft once knotted doesn't handle sudden shocks desperately well and I'd be thinking of a leader material with a bit more "give" in it...even if that means its thicker. Trout are greedy devils generally and unless they are exceptionally cute I don't think you'd need to go as fine as 0.12 Stroft.

To be fair the trout that found me out were a good deal bigger than those you are targeting and it was by no means every other fish BUT it happened often enough for me to abandon Stroft for something a bit more robust.

Good luck

Skippy

Thanks again Skippy

I appreciate your explaining, and am on the lookout for the Rio Powerflex,
will get some 4 and 5 in it, and a roll of that 4lb extra soft stroft just in case I am having no luck with the cute ones, most people put the fish back where I fish and I have witnessed them wiseing up over the season.
UPDATE
I just ordered 3.5 and 5 lb Rio Powerflex in the 100 yard spools, that should start me off on the right foot.
Next up, flies.
Thanks to all, Regards, john

 

[keora]

It's worth buying a few tippet rings. Tie a ring to the thin end of the leader, then tie a tippet about 3ft long to the ring.

With this set up you won't be shortening the leader each time you tie on a replacement tippet, so a leader should easily last a full season.

If you fish with wet flies, when you tie the tippet onto the ring, leave a 6 inch tag end on the knot. With it you can put a wet fly on the tag ( the dropper) to complement the wet fly on the end of the tippet.

https://www.fishingmegastore.com/view.php?module=productsnew&search=tippet+rings&searchbutton=

 

[S-Kippy]

Good advice.....I'd forgotten about tippet rings. Very handy albeit a bit fiddly if [like me] your eyesight is not what it once was.

 

[greenerpastures]

It's worth buying a few tippet rings. Tie a ring to the thin end of the leader, then tie a tippet about 3ft long to the ring.

With this set up you won't be shortening the leader each time you tie on a replacement tippet, so a leader should easily last a full season.

If you fish with wet flies, when you tie the tippet onto the ring, leave a 6 inch tag end on the knot. With it you can put a wet fly on the tag ( the dropper) to complement the wet fly on the end of the tippet.

https://www.fishingmegastore.com/view.php?module=productsnew&search=tippet+rings&searchbutton=

Hi and thanks Keora, I did not hear much about the advantage of tippet rings until after I bought my furled leaders which I had the option to get with a tippet ring, but too late for that now and unfortunately I can not put a ring on them, I do how ever have some standard tapered leaders and will be getting tippet rings, and will leave a good tag end for a dropper.
When I initially set out to gear up for dry fly fishing I did not realize just how
popular and significant wets and nymphs are in the fly world, seems like one could reach way more fish on these all year round, (where legal).

Thanks and Regards, john

 

[keora]

If you fish with a dry fly then it's better to use the method when the fish are actually rising to food on the surface. It seems that the presence of lots of insects rising through the upper layers and then trying to hatch and fly away stimulates the fish to take flies from the surface.

If there isn't a hatch, then it's a lot harder to catch fish on a dry fly. They may not be interested in striking at a single fly floating downstream. So that's when it's worth using nymphs, wet flies and streamers.

Another technique if there's nothing doing on the surface is to use a small nymph on the end of the tippet and on the dropper a big buoyant dry fly. A size 10 or 12 Klinkhammer or an elk hair caddis is a good choice. You fish upstream in the shallow streamy waters, the dry fly acts as an indicator and on odd occasions fish will take the dry rather than the nymph.

It's called the duo or klink 'n' dink.

 

[bullet]

I wouldn't bother constructing a leader. For your setup i would buy a 9ft tapered leader which goes down to 6lb b/s. Rio trout ones are good. Take about a foot or so off the thick end and attatch to your fly line. I would use a nail knot. Then add a tippet ring or tie a loop and you can attach your tippet to this.
I fish small streams all the time and this does me for virtually all scenarios.
Great for dries, fine for nymphing, no problem for duo/ new zealand style.
3lb tippet such as fulling mill flouro will be fine.

---------- Post added at 01:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 ----------

Good advice.....I'd forgotten about tippet rings. Very handy albeit a bit fiddly if [like me] your eyesight is not what it once was.

Very true, only about half of mine ever make it onto the end of the leader!

 

[dicky123]

John.

I did a piece on my blog Small stream brown trout. if you fancy a search?

But buy a 7'1/2' standard leader to 4lb tippet.. Cut a foot off the end and tie a perfection loop. To that add your tippet in two sizes. The first piece 6'' of 4lb is a simple wear section, then 24'' of fine tippet say 3lb. Once the 4lb piece is worn down add another. The leader should last a season.

Hope it helps. On good days without too much wind, I use a 12' leader on my Orris Superfine 7 1/2 4 weight. So I start with a 9' leader.

I've tied my own for years but if your water is weedy in summer knots are a nightmare!! Many of the leaders you see are designed for freestone rivers.

 

[psmith]

better to keep it simple, for starters a leader of seven to eight feet in total is fine.