Experimental predator rigs

[FishingMagic]

This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Experimental predator rigs

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

Hi Paul,

First off, I love your spirit of invention and none of the following ‘spiel’ is meant as criticism; just ‘interested with questions’. I spend hours and hours on the bank tinkering…

I am guessing (it's not clear?) that the first picture/ rig has been designed specifically for zander; I find compromise (e.g. multi-species predator rigs) to be a holy grail that we will never achieve and prefer personally to target specific species with specific rigs.

I know a lot of chaps that whip together smaller (holder) hooks to larger (piercing) hooks, and this certainly works BUT, for zander, my philosophy has always been less (rig bits) is more, and I can’t see what advantage the T-bars achieve, or indeed the adjustable element. With zander bites so finicky at times, I’d rather build a rig for the bait?

Also you don’t mention bite indication which greatly affects the success or otherwise of most zander rigs.

Another interesting variable with zander is hooklink material. I use very soft, supple materials (AFW Surfstrand/ Prologic Soft Wire etc) for zander but I wouldn’t hesitate to use stiffer material (Fox Carboflex, Drennan bog-standard) if my target was pike; they just don’t seem as rig-sensitive as the pike-perch.

The second rig (which I assume is an eel set-up) I can’t comment on. I have been lucky enough to have surprise eels from the Severn to 3lb plus but have never targeted them specifically so your best bet is someone far more qualified like Wol or the Dog looking in on the thread…

Thanks for the very enjoyable and interesting read Dayglow and, as I said earlier, all points in my post are meant in the spirit of healthy debate and communal interest

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Interesting idea - gives other ideas to try

 

[quickcedo]

Whilst certainly not an out and out predator angler I did fish a season a couple of years ago on the local pike matches. I was so suprised at how little Pike fishing had moved on (rig wise) So for me I found this article inspired. It certainly has me thinking a bit more and maybe a little more outside the box.

 

[tortoise100]

Glad people are getting ideas from this article , the first was designed with Zander in mind but when we were Zander fishing it was eels that we were actually catching (or not ).From some asking around I have found that one of the best Zander hook arrangements is a single size 8 trebble however we found through experiance that in a time when eels are on the rampage trebbles are a big no no and lead to dead eels , this would not be a problem from now on with the eel seasion just about finished.
I suppose part of the idea with the t-bars was to try and hook up a few more of the dropped runs I have a feeling that fish eating eels can have a crushing type of bite that can flatten hooks to the bait unlike say perch ,pike or zander that have a caverty behind the front teeth or a compressing mouth area in the case of perch , we had a lot of live baits bitten of just below the hooks when using a single hook of any type as if they felt the hook and just took what they could.
The second rig was designed as a bolt rig for eels working on the princible that they would reach up to the bait and pull back therefore self hooking against a 4 or 5 oz lead .
My bite indication has been limited to either very heavy or very light bobins or a quiver tip with a glow tip simply becuase i don't own anything else yet .

I have been looking at various trace materials and the kevlar type looks the best in around 25lb but unfortunatley the catfish stand was out of that strenght at the PAC confrence .I don't see the point in predator fishing with anything that would not cope with pike .

Thanks for replys and comments .

 

[Paul H]

I have been looking at various trace materials and the kevlar type looks the best in around 25lb

Both Andy Nellist and Wol have both said that this is pants, due to it degrading very quickly in sunlight (I am pretty sure it was the kevlar stuff anyhow).

The brands ****y mentions above like Surfstand are great quality materials and plenty soft enough for zander. You can easily knot the Surfstrand, just make sure you get the right version - Here.

 

[Neneman Nick]

Dayglow,****y....ref the use of a "T-bar" on a hook .
I remember seeing a single hook rig set up like this a few years ago in one of the angling mags.It was designed/used for fishing for eels and the idea of the bar was to prevent the eel actually swallowing the hook.

 

[Paul H]

I am thinking that in this set up they are intended to prevent the single hook from folding flat to the bait therefore improving the hooking potential.

Personally, I do not think that the use of appropriately sized semi-barbed trebles would be any less efficient and would be easier to rig-up. I am also not sure how a bait mounted on a rig with either a single or double treble arrangement would lead to dead eels, other than in unusual and unfortunate circumstances.

I once had a small but suicidal eel impale itself on a single hook with a 21mm hair rigged halibut pellet as big as its head. This, however, would not stop me from using the same rig again as it was simply an unusual and unfortunate event.

The dead eel went unwasted by the way as it got used as pike bait.

 

[tortoise100]

In response to the trebles question they are a huge no no when it comes to eels as there is no way you can ever get anything out that has been swallowed and the heart is at the back of the throat.

I suppose both of these rigs are aimed at eels to some degree simply because over the summer my zander fishing was in waters that contained a fair share of eels.

I have spoken to Barry McConnell (perhaps the country's best eel expert) and he will not fish trebles till the eel season is finished, then a single treble is his way for zander .

I have not done enough fishing for either species to pretend to be an expert or to have built up my confidence in any one rig but I did learn from sad experience that trebles and eels do not mix.

 

[preston96]

In response to the trebles question they are a huge no no when it comes to eels as there is no way you can ever get anything out that has been swallowed and the heart is at the back of the throat.

I suppose both of these rigs are aimed at eels to some degree simply because over the summer my zander fishing was in waters that contained a fair share of eels.

I have spoken to Barry McConnell (perhaps the country's best eel expert) and he will not fish trebles till the eel season is finished, then a single treble is his way for zander .

I have not done enough fishing for either species to pretend to be an expert or to have built up my confidence in any one rig but I did learn from sad experience that trebles and eels do not mix.

In over 35yrs of Pike and Zander fishing i have never had an eel swallow a bait adorned with two trebles.

I applaud the experimenting, i do a bit myself but keep coming back to trebles........in fact a size up from what i used in the 70's and 80's.