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This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Are you ready for the new season? Carp targets
Are you ready for the new season? Carp targets
- Thread starter FishingMagic
- Start date
Fred Blake
Well-known member
Well, it started out sensible enough. Choosing a water to concentrate on, researching features, contours and so forth - good, sound advice. Then it all went horribly wrong. I guess it's just not acceptable these days to write a feature article without plugging the products of at least one tackle company, but leaving aside brand loyalties, is it really necessary to buy a thirteen foot powerhouse rod to cope with the demands of a large water? An ounce of casting ability will go a lot further. Besides, the carp don't always live in a little circle out in the middle.
To then suggest you need a seven foot toothpick on smaller waters is bonkers. You only need something like this when fishing real jungle areas; in most places a sensible ten or eleven foot rod will do just fine. Most fisheries now insist you fish only from recognised swims anyway, and these are invariably shorn of all inconvenient vegetation that might make handling a regular rod tricky.
Very short rods are horrid things to play fish on anyway, as their lack of length means you have very little spring in the rod to absorb shocks - and very little line out to compensate for it. Hook pulls here we come. Then of course one must ensure one's spod and marker rods are up to spec - more money to the Chinese carbon consortium. How on earth did we ever catch carp without them?
Preparation for the forthcoming season (or campaign, as it's known in carp circles - presumably those little ones the carp live in, right out in the middle of the lake!) involves using one's noddle, not splashing the cash.
To then suggest you need a seven foot toothpick on smaller waters is bonkers. You only need something like this when fishing real jungle areas; in most places a sensible ten or eleven foot rod will do just fine. Most fisheries now insist you fish only from recognised swims anyway, and these are invariably shorn of all inconvenient vegetation that might make handling a regular rod tricky.
Very short rods are horrid things to play fish on anyway, as their lack of length means you have very little spring in the rod to absorb shocks - and very little line out to compensate for it. Hook pulls here we come. Then of course one must ensure one's spod and marker rods are up to spec - more money to the Chinese carbon consortium. How on earth did we ever catch carp without them?
Preparation for the forthcoming season (or campaign, as it's known in carp circles - presumably those little ones the carp live in, right out in the middle of the lake!) involves using one's noddle, not splashing the cash.
Tee-Cee
Senior Member
"A comfortable chair to sleep on until a carp decides to wake you up"...........not the sort of night fishing I would want to do!
To my mind night fishing is fishing(actually fishing!)with youe eyes open and winding in the rods if you fancy a sleep under a basic umbrella.
Being woken suddenly by an alarm,racing off a bedchair to strike into a fish still half asleep never has,and never will,do it for me I'm afraid....but thats me and every body is entitled to fish as they see fit.......
I wouldn't have anywhere at home to keep a wheelbarrow anyway!
To my mind night fishing is fishing(actually fishing!)with youe eyes open and winding in the rods if you fancy a sleep under a basic umbrella.
Being woken suddenly by an alarm,racing off a bedchair to strike into a fish still half asleep never has,and never will,do it for me I'm afraid....but thats me and every body is entitled to fish as they see fit.......
I wouldn't have anywhere at home to keep a wheelbarrow anyway!
Ian Gemson
Well-known member
Hi Fred thanks for your feed back fishing is about your own beliefs and skill sets (watercraft) the subject about preparation including rods is one of saying "If " you are targeting a large new sheet of water your current tackle set up may not be able in certain situations to be able to reach the fish "if" the fish decide to start showing and feeding at range we both know that carp feed where they want to feed sometimes under our feet and sometimes a long way out. The rods have be chosen as an instructional piece and as I am sponsored by hardy it is right and proper I put them forward first I could always log a huge list of manufacturers down but I was trying in the article to be thought provoking. And I am sure the article refers to small intimate stalking type waters when I refer to the short rods ?.
I am just trying to get people thinking about what they are going to do and what tackle will help them get the best from their sport many people are more than able to do this for them selves but many appreciate a bit of thought provoking article pieces to assist them get the best from their sport/hobby. Thanks again for you comments have you got any article ideas that you think might help the FM forum members Fred ?
Regards
Ian G
I am just trying to get people thinking about what they are going to do and what tackle will help them get the best from their sport many people are more than able to do this for them selves but many appreciate a bit of thought provoking article pieces to assist them get the best from their sport/hobby. Thanks again for you comments have you got any article ideas that you think might help the FM forum members Fred ?
Regards
Ian G
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geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Hold on - who is baiting who here ? 
Ian Gemson
Well-known member
Oh my god Geoff (Miss Marple) found out so quickly LOL.
Fred Blake
Well-known member
Ian - thanks for replying. I appreciate you have a duty to your sponsors, so we'll let that one go. However, I do feel the article didn't reflect the majority of carp fishing scenarios; citing large open waters one the one hand and small, enclosed ones on the other is all very well, but most carp waters are neither. I would say the vast majority of carp fishing carried out in this country (in terms of angler numbers, not necessarily individual rod hours) takes place on lakes and pits between two and ten acres. Few will have fishable areas where it is necessary to creep and crawl through the undergrowth, and fewer still will have enough space to accommodate the kind of tournament casting antics that require a powerful thirteen foot rod. If I were cynical, I'd think those two extremes were chosen simply to illustrate reasons for purchasing that kind of tackle!
I reckon a twelve foot 2.75lb test rod is adequate for just about all the middle-ground waters; with practice it is perfectly possible to cast a hundred yards with one of these, should it be necessary. In fact, in more than twenty five years of carp fishing on a wide range of waters, including several lakes and pits of thirty acres and more, I have only found it necessary to cast this far a handful of times - and I was able to do so with a 2.25lb test rod and 1.5oz lead. On smaller waters I prefer a ten or eleven footer with a much lower test curve myself, but the twelve footer will do if you don't want to have two sets of rods.
Talking of which, it is not necessary to own a dedicated marker and spod rod. I don't, and never have. I use one of my carp rods if I need to use a marker, and clip up and mark the line before I wind it in. I then remove the float, add the rig and, by aiming at a far bank feature, I can put the bait back on the spot. I can then repeat the process with the other rod.
If I need to 'spod' any bait out I use a pocket rocket mini spod, which can be cast quite comfortably with a regular carp rod. I can leave the marker float out on the first rod, spod with the second - an advantage of so doing being both rods are automatically clipped up at the right distance.
Carp fishing is in danger of becoming a process, whereby every would-be Danny Fairbrass needs to own powerful rods, marker rods, spod rods etc etc etc. It's good for business undoubtedly; there'll always be something new that one simply must have. I despair when I see youngsters kitted out with hundreds of pounds worth of kit, hurling markers and spods all over the place like they do in the DVDs, and then failing to catch anything. If you try to help, and suggest an alternative tactic, they don't want to know; carp fishing is all about spodding and marker float work in't it?
I reckon a twelve foot 2.75lb test rod is adequate for just about all the middle-ground waters; with practice it is perfectly possible to cast a hundred yards with one of these, should it be necessary. In fact, in more than twenty five years of carp fishing on a wide range of waters, including several lakes and pits of thirty acres and more, I have only found it necessary to cast this far a handful of times - and I was able to do so with a 2.25lb test rod and 1.5oz lead. On smaller waters I prefer a ten or eleven footer with a much lower test curve myself, but the twelve footer will do if you don't want to have two sets of rods.
Talking of which, it is not necessary to own a dedicated marker and spod rod. I don't, and never have. I use one of my carp rods if I need to use a marker, and clip up and mark the line before I wind it in. I then remove the float, add the rig and, by aiming at a far bank feature, I can put the bait back on the spot. I can then repeat the process with the other rod.
If I need to 'spod' any bait out I use a pocket rocket mini spod, which can be cast quite comfortably with a regular carp rod. I can leave the marker float out on the first rod, spod with the second - an advantage of so doing being both rods are automatically clipped up at the right distance.
Carp fishing is in danger of becoming a process, whereby every would-be Danny Fairbrass needs to own powerful rods, marker rods, spod rods etc etc etc. It's good for business undoubtedly; there'll always be something new that one simply must have. I despair when I see youngsters kitted out with hundreds of pounds worth of kit, hurling markers and spods all over the place like they do in the DVDs, and then failing to catch anything. If you try to help, and suggest an alternative tactic, they don't want to know; carp fishing is all about spodding and marker float work in't it?
Ian Gemson
Well-known member
Hi Fred You do have many fair and valid comments I agree fishing is what ever fishing is. Ie you do what ever you want or like to do because you get enjoyment from it. If you believe you do not need a spod rod or marker rod well that's OK by me. However I know a normal carp rod of say 11' 2.75TC will certainly not work well as a marker rod or spod rod that's not saying it wont do the job its just saying it cant compare with a rod dedicated to the task. It would be like going to Wentorth and getting out a pitch and put club and saying this will do for me as I cannot and will not try and understand how any other golf clubs could possibly be better.
No one mentioned Danny Fairbrass so why bring him into the discussion ? if you have an issue with the way you think carp fishing is heading well get up and do something about it ? Regarding spodding, spodding or accurate bait placement has a place in carp fishing like using a pole pot or throwing ground bait balls at a float has in course/match fishing.
Please note the article is not a "definitive" you must do this article it was written to try and get people thinking and preparing about there new season and setting a few personal targets to try and inspire to push themselves a little further with their sport.
I would ask as you seem full of ideas to put pen to paper and write your own article for the FM members so we can see your thought provoking idea's and carp fishing concepts. ?
No one mentioned Danny Fairbrass so why bring him into the discussion ? if you have an issue with the way you think carp fishing is heading well get up and do something about it ? Regarding spodding, spodding or accurate bait placement has a place in carp fishing like using a pole pot or throwing ground bait balls at a float has in course/match fishing.
Please note the article is not a "definitive" you must do this article it was written to try and get people thinking and preparing about there new season and setting a few personal targets to try and inspire to push themselves a little further with their sport.
I would ask as you seem full of ideas to put pen to paper and write your own article for the FM members so we can see your thought provoking idea's and carp fishing concepts. ?
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Fred Blake
Well-known member
Thanks again Ian. I agree I have my own rather out-dated ideas on carp fishing, and yes, I do despair of where carp fishing is heading. I feel similarly about society in general, and I guess one reflects the other. If people in high places can't sort it, what hope have I?
I suppose where I'm coming from on this is summed up quite well by replying to this quote:
Please note the article is not a "definitive" you must do this article it was written to try and get people thinking and preparing about there new season and setting a few personal targets to try and inspire to push themselves a little further with their sport.
If only the reader would take it in that light! Sadly, my experience is that they don't. Too often people read something that aims to encourage them, and take the advice literally. I dread to think how many hopeful carpers have spent money on marker rods, spod rods, thirteen foot casting rods etc and are now sat on the bank wondering why this latest investment hasn't paid off with a thirty pounder.
Where is the advice on how to use a spod rod, or a marker rod? Where is the guidance on why you might need to? It's not as simple as saying you need this or that to do the job properly; you need to explain when, where and most importantly, why. Get the angler to think for himself first, and to analyse his own fishing, Only when a problem arises should he seek an answer to it.
I suppose where I'm coming from on this is summed up quite well by replying to this quote:
Please note the article is not a "definitive" you must do this article it was written to try and get people thinking and preparing about there new season and setting a few personal targets to try and inspire to push themselves a little further with their sport.
If only the reader would take it in that light! Sadly, my experience is that they don't. Too often people read something that aims to encourage them, and take the advice literally. I dread to think how many hopeful carpers have spent money on marker rods, spod rods, thirteen foot casting rods etc and are now sat on the bank wondering why this latest investment hasn't paid off with a thirty pounder.
Where is the advice on how to use a spod rod, or a marker rod? Where is the guidance on why you might need to? It's not as simple as saying you need this or that to do the job properly; you need to explain when, where and most importantly, why. Get the angler to think for himself first, and to analyse his own fishing, Only when a problem arises should he seek an answer to it.
Ian Gemson
Well-known member
Hi Fred
How to use a marker rod YouTube - Smart Carping Feature finding wih a marker rod and float
How to spod part 1 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part one
How to spod part 2 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part two
How to spod part 3 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part three
I know exactly what you are saying and could not agree more . The people you refer to "all the gear no idea" can be found in every sport from golf through to motor racing and every sport in between. How ever we must not be tempted to condemn these people as in life we should offer Education rather than Condemnation. this hopefully will inspire people to follow the correct path in life.
There is truly no quick fix to become a great angler, water craft as yet is not available in a jar and as such learning the basics of fishing by undertaking an angling apprenticeship ( fishing for small fish first and trying to understand our quarry) is one of the only ways to gain the basic skills required to become a truly great angler.
I hope you like the videos ( please comment on these if they are not to your liking LOL ) Thanks again
Oh and just a quick note to all of the Fashion police out there. I was wearing dark glasses as I had a massive blood clot appear in my right eye the night before the filming ( Ah the problems of being a diabetic) and as such just had to wear glasses. many thanks in advance for all of you kind comments
Tight Lines all
How to use a marker rod YouTube - Smart Carping Feature finding wih a marker rod and float
How to spod part 1 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part one
How to spod part 2 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part two
How to spod part 3 YouTube - Smart Carping at Thorpe Lea part three
I know exactly what you are saying and could not agree more . The people you refer to "all the gear no idea" can be found in every sport from golf through to motor racing and every sport in between. How ever we must not be tempted to condemn these people as in life we should offer Education rather than Condemnation. this hopefully will inspire people to follow the correct path in life.
There is truly no quick fix to become a great angler, water craft as yet is not available in a jar and as such learning the basics of fishing by undertaking an angling apprenticeship ( fishing for small fish first and trying to understand our quarry) is one of the only ways to gain the basic skills required to become a truly great angler.
I hope you like the videos ( please comment on these if they are not to your liking LOL ) Thanks again
Oh and just a quick note to all of the Fashion police out there. I was wearing dark glasses as I had a massive blood clot appear in my right eye the night before the filming ( Ah the problems of being a diabetic) and as such just had to wear glasses. many thanks in advance for all of you kind comments
Tight Lines all
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Fred Blake
Well-known member
Thank you Ian - how kind of you. Now I know how to spod and use a marker float. I quite agree that education is better than condemnation, so perhaps you could tell me why it is that whenever I start throwing the marker float out on my local five acre lake I get shouted at? Sometimes it's really quite abusive. I'm glad I'm not a sensitive little sausage.
And only the other day, when I started spodding out my bucket of bait, someone ran round at the double and whacked me over the head with a throwing stick. It didn't half hurt. Should I buy one do you think? I'm worried I can't get my boilies all the way across the lake to the far bank with a catapult. Do Chub make a throwing stick?
chav professor
Well-known member
can't be @rsed with all that cafuffle. Each to their own I suppose. Do you need to use an anti-eject rig too, because it might help if the fish hooked itself before rudely awaking you? before anyone comments back - this is purely in jest:j
before anyone comments back - this is purely in jest:jIan Gemson
Well-known member
Hi Chav Professor what is an anti erect rig ?
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
With tens of thousands of similarly-minded carp-trappers on hand to support you, Ian, I think my candour might be excused. The message I get from your articles leaves me cold. Ian...believe me, staying awake through the magical dark hours - IF you can find an 'unspoilt' water - will teach you more about carp and carp-fishing than a rocket-launcher and a nice, comfy bedchair ever will. Oblivious to the night in your jumbo sleeping-bag and subliminally hoping to remain undisturbed by your alarms, you completely miss the point of being alive and alert, hunting when Man really should be sleeping. Cocooned and 'sparko' you miss the night-sky, the glory of moonlight through scudding clouds; you miss the still, quiet period from 12 until 2 - then the fresh, chill breeze that speaks of the coming dawn. Not for you the margin-feeder, there - just by the reeds, quietly sipping-in the bread-crust you tossed in before dark; not for you the dark, oily bow-waves pushing beneath your very rod-tips and - not for you, Ian - the waking cries of moorhen as a whopper explodes on feeling the hook.
Should I hit the 'submit' button, I ask myself. Are my comments unfair to a guy who's invested his time in constructing and presenting his article - and for free? Well, my motivation is borne of experience, not just of the 'rosy dawns' and the 'wing-ed bat', but of the eight-foot inflatable and the devastating crash of the spod. So here goes...
Should I hit the 'submit' button, I ask myself. Are my comments unfair to a guy who's invested his time in constructing and presenting his article - and for free? Well, my motivation is borne of experience, not just of the 'rosy dawns' and the 'wing-ed bat', but of the eight-foot inflatable and the devastating crash of the spod. So here goes...
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Can you imagine if they were all fishing the same lake: they all had shotguns and Ian had a bait-boat
Ian Gemson
Well-known member
OH MY god mention a spod and marker rod and suddenly your the anti Christ LOL. And did i read this correctly because you need to go to sleep during a long fishing session you cannot ever be an accomplished or complete anglers. OH MY GOD lol. PLEASE NOTE you do not have to whip your self with willow sticks and stay awake and cold all night long to enjoy fishing, however there are many magical moments that occur during our time on the bank both during the day and at night and being immersed in nature up close and personnel can for many be a special time. But dont give me the argument that just because you are comfortable you cannot be a TRUE angler.
Oh and whilst I am at it there is nothing wrong with baiting a swim with a spod if you feel other wise please feel free to try and explain to me exactly why spodding is wrong ?. Oh and I dont want the old story of this bloke who spodded a ton of bait out splashing and crashing the lake to a froth and subsequently blanked, as this old chestnut can be placed at nearly every aspect of current carp fishing angling.
Here is a picture evidence of how effective accurate spodding can be during a day session with Geoff Maynard and son Ollie and third fellow angler and me hold a quad of huge carp. The spod and marker used in this application obviously did not scare the fish away.
There we go there is my ten pence worth over to you. Please feel free to add your articles on the afore mentioned subject as we would all like to read your thoughts. We wait with anticipation for your articles ?.
Regards
Ian G
Oh and whilst I am at it there is nothing wrong with baiting a swim with a spod if you feel other wise please feel free to try and explain to me exactly why spodding is wrong ?. Oh and I dont want the old story of this bloke who spodded a ton of bait out splashing and crashing the lake to a froth and subsequently blanked, as this old chestnut can be placed at nearly every aspect of current carp fishing angling.
Here is a picture evidence of how effective accurate spodding can be during a day session with Geoff Maynard and son Ollie and third fellow angler and me hold a quad of huge carp. The spod and marker used in this application obviously did not scare the fish away.
There we go there is my ten pence worth over to you. Please feel free to add your articles on the afore mentioned subject as we would all like to read your thoughts. We wait with anticipation for your articles ?.
Regards
Ian G
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Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
A conversation I recently had with my 29 year old son left me a little worried: he's a computer-scientist, in love with his work - a real fan of advanced technology, and he told me that the prospect of being watched by CCTV - even when out walking in the woods or along the riverbank - gave him no cause for concern. A different conversation with a work colleague revealed she saw no problem with kids using calculators for mathematics lessons because 'the technology is there to be used'. Another popular argument it has been my misfortune to hear just recently (while applying for jobs) is that it's perfectly ok to leave interviewees in the dark if they haven't been successful: "If we haven't contacted you it's obvious you haven't got the job". These 'philosophies' - and others like them - are fairly new phenomena; they are, perhaps, logical and practical, but it doesn't make them right, and in the same way that I am unable to convince my son that 'security' can quickly mean 'tyranny' I will be unable to convince you, Ian, of the need for a gentle approach to angling. The years that separate us are a canyon keeping our two approaches far apart, their fundamental difference exemplified by your question "What's wrong with spodding?" If you genuinely see nothing incongruous about shattering the peace of morning with a pound and a half rocket; and if kipping all night constitutes 'fishing' for you; and if a screaming run begs the question "Is it Percy?" rather than "Will I hit this right?" there's little more I can say: we have fundamentally different values. Ok, Ian...I give in! I ain't gonna turn around an entire industry and a national mind-set that has turned its back on those values previously regarded by the angling icons of the day as unassailable; the board has been wiped clean in the world of carp-fishing and new standards now apply. My concern for the content of articles like yours, Ian, is borne of nothing other than personal sadness. I've been fishing one hell of a long time now and feel truly, truly blessed to have spent a large part of my life in touch with the with Great Outdoors; I've revelled in every minute of it, unable to comprehend how the rest of society can possiblyget through life without stalking night-cloopers or counting the shooting stars. I want us ALL to share this understanding, to know that we harbour a priceless secret unknown to Lakeside and Bluewater Man. No more questions, m'Lud. By the way, Ian...who's this 'we'? You speak for yourself, mate!
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Tee-Cee
Senior Member
All of the above posts have merit.
Different ways of fishing is what its all about and what suits one won't suit another...an opinion is okay but I suggest its quite wrong to criticise other person methods....................I don't sleep on the bank BUT I can understand why others do...whatever suits really!!
Different ways of fishing is what its all about and what suits one won't suit another...an opinion is okay but I suggest its quite wrong to criticise other person methods....................I don't sleep on the bank BUT I can understand why others do...whatever suits really!!
Fred Blake
Well-known member
Ian - perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my previous posts, so let's set the record straight.
In over a quarter of a century of carp fishing, there aren't many innovations I haven't experimented with (though I've drawn the line at baitboats, as I believe one should never place a bait where one cannot cast it, and if you can cast to the spot, you can bait it up by other means). I've had some very good catches with the help of a long-range baitdropper (aka 'spod') and I have used a marker float to assess depths, clear areas etc. I've used just about every rig going, and a wide range of baits. I've slept on a bedchair under a brolly, summer and winter, and do not feel I'm a fraud for so doing. Sometimes being by the water at night is enough.
Very few of the advances in carp fishing fall into the category of 'no use whatsoever', but equally, very few are essential. This is my point. Ninety five percent of my carp have been caught within twenty yards of the bank, on simple rigs, readily available (though rarely used these days) and cheap baits, without the aid of a marker float set up, a spod, a baitboat or a bivvy. For the remaining five percent, I've cast a long way, spodded bait out, or used a fancy rig. Sometimes all three.
What I find most disconcerting about the modern type of article (and yours falls into this group) is the way that having the 'right' tackle is given greater importance than using it effectively. I'm sure anyone with a bit of carp fishing experience has encounted the instant carp angler (just add water) who turns up with all the gear and no idea. On busy club waters and day ticket lakes, the antics of these chaps invariably spoils the fishing for others, and can lead to water quality issues if loads of bait is introduced unthinkingly.
What I'd like to see are more balanced articles, where promoting tackle is not one of the motivational forces. It's better to obtain and learn to use each item as and when the need for it arises.
In over a quarter of a century of carp fishing, there aren't many innovations I haven't experimented with (though I've drawn the line at baitboats, as I believe one should never place a bait where one cannot cast it, and if you can cast to the spot, you can bait it up by other means). I've had some very good catches with the help of a long-range baitdropper (aka 'spod') and I have used a marker float to assess depths, clear areas etc. I've used just about every rig going, and a wide range of baits. I've slept on a bedchair under a brolly, summer and winter, and do not feel I'm a fraud for so doing. Sometimes being by the water at night is enough.
Very few of the advances in carp fishing fall into the category of 'no use whatsoever', but equally, very few are essential. This is my point. Ninety five percent of my carp have been caught within twenty yards of the bank, on simple rigs, readily available (though rarely used these days) and cheap baits, without the aid of a marker float set up, a spod, a baitboat or a bivvy. For the remaining five percent, I've cast a long way, spodded bait out, or used a fancy rig. Sometimes all three.
What I find most disconcerting about the modern type of article (and yours falls into this group) is the way that having the 'right' tackle is given greater importance than using it effectively. I'm sure anyone with a bit of carp fishing experience has encounted the instant carp angler (just add water) who turns up with all the gear and no idea. On busy club waters and day ticket lakes, the antics of these chaps invariably spoils the fishing for others, and can lead to water quality issues if loads of bait is introduced unthinkingly.
What I'd like to see are more balanced articles, where promoting tackle is not one of the motivational forces. It's better to obtain and learn to use each item as and when the need for it arises.
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
That photo of four fish were all taken within minutes of each other - two fish in two landing nets at the same time, and were part of a multi-fish haul (12?). There is no way they would have been caught without fishing at range and using a spod - we know this because the guys either side of us were doing exactly that.
You don't have to like moden techniques but you have to accept that sometimes they work very well - and though they may not be catches in the finest of Crabtree tradition, they are exactly what the kid who caught them wanted. Perhaps he'll learn to enjoy a quill sinking at dusk later in life.
You don't have to like moden techniques but you have to accept that sometimes they work very well - and though they may not be catches in the finest of Crabtree tradition, they are exactly what the kid who caught them wanted. Perhaps he'll learn to enjoy a quill sinking at dusk later in life.