4 world carp championship titles in a row for south africa

[michael kirby]

Good Morning my fellow country men and anglers , for those of you who have read my previous threads on this subject you will know that i am a proud Yorkshire Englishman who has lived in South Africa for 30 years on top of that i fish in and manage teams at the highest levels of angling in SA ,i know personally all the anglers who have been in the SA team for the past 4 years fishing with them as either team mates or against them as opposition , not however in Carp Fishing but a style of angling here known as "BANK ANGLING " where i fish provincially but can only obtain my federation colours i am English and therefore cannot and do not want to win PROTEA colours , i have even had the pleasure of "Ron the Hat Clay" staying at my home and fishing with me here in SA last year!!! , my previous threads were after SA won two world titles in a row , then 3 in a row , and now 4!!!
I have delivered here "CRAFTY CARPER" monthly and occasionaly "CARP WORLD " what is interesting is that there normally will be nothing about SA winning the world title in a sport that these magazines are supposed to lead the world in !!! very strange , what i do know is that Carp Anglers are always looking for an edge or information that will improve their catches , you would think then that after 4 victories in a row , someone just might have asked the question "What are SA doing the others are not " particularly after the catches they had at LINEAR FISHERIES , they have now won in SA , FRANCE , ENGLAND , and ITALY , i have in the past given some pointers on the reasons why , "RON THE HAT CLAY" left me on his way via New Zealand and Australia back to the UK threatening to write some articles on the subject and what i showed him here , has this happened ?? , did any one try the tips i put on here before ?? , i do realise that most anglers in the UK are self driven specimen anglers not "competition anglers" but i also know that some of the things the South Africans do might assist even the lone anglers looking only to improve their PB .
Did any one try TCP over the winter as an attractor ????
Best Regards
Mike Kirby

 

[sam vimes]

Did any one try TCP over the winter as an attractor ????

Had I heard about it I may have tried it. However, I don't think it would work very well on the wrong side of a sheet of ice!

 

[cg74]

Mike, is this the follow on event to this:
http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/carp-fishing/149257-world-carp-fishing-championships.html

If yes, do you know who represented England?

As for the TCP, I had a whiff of it to reacquaint myself too its distinct aroma. And no chance of me using the stuff, no matter how effective it might be, the stench of retirement home was too much for me.

 

[dezza]

Heyup Mike,

Articles are in, but it might take a few more months for publication, knowing how far ahead magazines work in England.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

The incredible fact is that SA won with a weight of over 3,500 kg!!!! That's right, 3500 kg!!!

England only got 700 and odd kg!

And it was fished at Bloemhof Dam.

I fished Bloemhof, which is an impounded section of the Vaal River many years ago. The water is chock a block with medium sized carp from about 5 lbs to 15 lbs, and if you have the right tackle and bait, are very easy to catch. The secret is the ability to cast regularly 150 metres with a ................

I'd better shut up.

I think I'd better join the England team and show them what to do next time.

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

As for the TCP, I had a whiff of it to reacquaint myself too its distinct aroma. And no chance of me using the stuff, no matter how effective it might be, the stench of retirement home was too much for me.

TCP is the short form for Trichlorophenol; it was first formulated in France. I am looking at a bottle of the stuff right now. It is used as a mild antiseptic and when you put it on a cut it doesn't sting as much as say Dettol.

I have been putting a tiny amount with some mini-boilies I have been using for tench, but I can't say if it has made much difference as yet. Time will tell.

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

Ron,

Let us know when your article is going to be published and in which publication...

Sounds fascinating stuff

 

[dezza]

I have been looking at some photos taken ca 1972 at Riverton-on-Vaal when I took a series of huge carp and yellowfish catches over a 4 day session. I tried to work out my maximum weight; I caught 345 carp averaging I would say 12 lbs each. The biggest weighed 18 1/2 lbs.

That's 4140 lbs of carp. Amongst that were 6 or 7 yellowfish, including a large mouth of 24 lbs.

You will probably have guessed that the river was overstocked. This is quite true and I gave 30 or 40 of these carp to the farm workers for food.

All those fish were caught on sweetcorn, 3 grains on a number 4 Sealy Speedbarb hook, fished on a simple short link paternoster using 12 lb Maxima and a 3oz Arlesey bomb. Today you might call that set up a "Chod Rig", which was invented in South Africa about 100 years ago and was used to beat soft silty bottoms.

No doubt many of you will attempt to dispute what I say regarding South African carp fishing methods. But Carp fishing techniques were held back for many year in this country by many anglers who believed Richard Walker was right. Sure he caught a record carp, but consider this.

How many more record carp were not caught because of using the wrong approach? How many carp were caught on Redmire by the Carp Catcher's Club? In some years you could count the numbers on one hand. Walker succeeded in spite of his methods, not because of them. It took a great carp thinker like Rod Hutchinson to get it right, schooled by the carp anglers of Lancashire who decided to give South African carp methods, and particle baits a try.

And there you see, I have never worshipped at the throne of Walker like others I know.

The Monk probably knows more than any other carp angler alive about how SA methods found their way to the UK.

 

[cg74]

Heyup Mike,

Articles are in, but it might take a few more months for publication, knowing how far ahead magazines work in England.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

The incredible fact is that SA won with a weight of over 3,500 kg!!!! That's right, 3500 kg!!!

England only got 700 and odd kg!

And it was fished at Bloemhof Dam.

I fished Bloemhof, which is an impounded section of the Vaal River many years ago. The water is chock a block with medium sized carp from about 5 lbs to 15 lbs, and if you have the right tackle and bait, are very easy to catch. The secret is the ability to cast regularly 150 metres with a ................

I'd better shut up.

I think I'd better join the England team and show them what to do next time.

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------



TCP is the short form for Trichlorophenol; it was first formulated in France. I am looking at a bottle of the stuff right now. It is used as a mild antiseptic and when you put it on a cut it doesn't sting as much as say Dettol.

I have been putting a tiny amount with some mini-boilies I have been using for tench, but I can't say if it has made much difference as yet. Time will tell.

I take it team England had Will Raison, Alan Scotthorne, Steve Gardener and Steve Ringer amongst its team members, as when all said and done the fish are roughly the same average size as found at Boddington, Clattercote and Drayton reservoirs. Slightly longer cast but a good angler shouldn't struggle.

Regards TCP, like I said; stinks of MOGS (Miserable Old Gits) but thanks for the lesson on its origin and chemistry but I was aware of its uses.

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

All those fish were caught on sweetcorn, 3 grains on a number 4 Sealy Speedbarb hook, fished on a simple short link paternoster using 12 lb Maxima and a 3oz Arlesey bomb. Today you might call that set up a "Chod Rig", which was invented in South Africa about 100 years ago and was used to beat soft silty bottoms.

No doubt many of you will attempt to dispute what I say regarding South African carp fishing methods. But Carp fishing techniques were held back for many year in this country by many anglers who believed Richard Walker was right. Sure he caught a record carp, but consider this.

How many more record carp were not caught because of using the wrong approach? How many carp were caught on Redmire by the Carp Catcher's Club? In some years you could count the numbers on one hand. Walker succeeded in spite of his methods, not because of them. It took a great carp thinker like Rod Hutchinson to get it right, schooled by the carp anglers of Lancashire who decided to give South African carp methods, and particle baits a try.

And there you see, I have never worshipped at the throne of Walker like others I know.

The Monk probably knows more than any other carp angler alive about how SA methods found their way to the UK.

Ron, here's one of your old threads on the chod rigs origins: http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/carp-fishing/123019-origins-chod-rig.html

It pretty much debunks your theory that the chod rig origins are South African.

 

[dezza]

I take it team England had Will Raison, Alan Scotthorne, Steve Gardener and Steve Ringer amongst its team members, as when all said and done the fish are roughly the same average size as found at Boddington, Clattercote and Drayton reservoirs. Slightly longer cast but a good angler shouldn't struggle

I don't think any of these anglers were in the England Squad. The English team were composed mainly of specimen style carp anglers.

As regards the "Chod" rig, what is really in a name? In angling there has for time immemorial been a tendency to "canonise" various rigs, techniques and styles of fishing. For instance: "Maggot Feeder", "Groundbait Feeder", "Stick", "Waggler", "Pole at 11 metres", "He's on the tip", etc etc. Such terminology can be very misleading to beginners.

And in describing rigs, I certainly do not want to sound dogmatic. "You MIGHT call that set up a Chod Rig". for example. These are only my own opinions and I don't think such ideas should be written in stone.

But a good idea is proved by its effectiveness, and the short link paternoster is one of the most effective carp fishing techniques ever invented. That is for sure.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

After a fair bit of investigation, what appears to be termed a chod rig in the UK is a short link paternoster with a number of refinements, such as in some cases, the length of lead core, or the helicopter set up, or the use of a pop-up.

South Africans use pop ups (they call them "floaties") a great deal but in some cases the use of lead core is banned, as it is in this country.

One of the lakes I fish states on the rules that "chod rigs and lead core lines are banned!"

 

[michael kirby]

Thanks to Sam vines ,Cg74 ,****y and of course my mate Ron for replying to the thread , this time on here i will try in short form to explain why i believe the SA team has been so succesfull in the Carp World Champs, then give you guys some things that you might like to try , i will do this without spoiling Rons long awaited articles , by the way the SA anglers themselves would agree with my comments i am sure .
All of them competed to the highest level in SA style bank angling on our massive shallow dams , we basically use method feeder systems fishing 2 rods , however the method feeder systems have a hook at the bottom just like the usual method feeder AND the second hook is above helicopter style the weight used is a small mushroom weight about 10 to 15 grams with a moulded what we call mealie bomb around it , this the top guys can cast up to 180 meters ( Ron saw this with his own eyes ) the 2 hooks are important for 2 reasons the first reason is to see the condition at the bottom of the dam because at the dustances we fish from the side you cant lead it out easily , secondly it gives the opportunity to try 2 diiferent baits or flavours IE a paste with a floatie on the bottom hook dipped in banana a worm on the top dipped in almond with a touch of TCP on the mealie bomb , double that with 2 rods and you are trying 6 different attractors and combinations , once the anglers have worked out the state of the bottom then they are experts in manipulating the mealie bomb to suit the conditions in other words controlling its time of breakdown , IE if the bottom is clear then a breakdown of the bomb in 2 to 4 minutes is achieved , if the bottom is 3 or 4 inch stalks of grass that the dam has come up over then the bomb is made spongy so that it sits on top of the stalks , the trace would then be 1 hook helicopter style or both hooks but with longer hook lengths say 300mm , another issue is that with a massive area of water in front of you starting at say 2 foot deep 10 meters in to say 8 feet deep 120 meters out you need to find the depth the fish are in , you can understand now why SA anglers developed this style of 2 rods and 2 hooks per trace , anglers the world over are thinking people who adapt to catch , by the way our comps here last 8 hours primarily because we have to drive 1 to 2 hours to get to the waters . the last thing is the emphasis on attractors i have said this before but i dont think people believe me , the amount of flavours and attractors that angling companies have developed here in SA over the past 20 years is unbelievable over "10 times" yes "10 times" what you have in the UK and these top guys with the 2 rod , 2 hook systems have become experts at quickly working out what the carp are taking on that particular day , the important thing also is the combinations ( and to an extent you guys do it there ) , IE a sweetcorn flavoured method mix with a pineapple corn pip , thats just a simple one one is the caller the other the taker , many times here i have fished say Garlic on the top hook , Banana on the botom with the fish taking the bottom hook every time , change the dips around with the banana on top garlic on the bottom guaranteed the next fish took the top hook , but take off the garlic and dip both hooks in banana , the bites stop.
CONCLUSION
The SA anglers have become experts at the following , long distance casting ( 2 of the 4 world championships have been won because of this ) its easy to go to 4 rods between 2 guys when you have always fished with 2 rods anyway , locating fish in vast areas of water , reading the bottom conditions , and quickly finding out the combinations of attractors and takers the fish respond to ( the other 2 world championships were won because of this ) of course they are all talented dedicated anglers too , but from 7 years of age have had to catch carp in vast shallow muddy expanses of water with 2 rods , and this is what has made them adapt to the 72 hour competitive carp competitions so well.
WHAT COULD BE IN IT FOR YOU
Personally and i have spent many hours thinking about this , i believe that UK anglers could increase catches by trying and developing many more bait and flavour combinations than they do , it seems to me that many people go for the latest trend of popular bait and feed and thats it , i am sure by the quality of responses i got here that this does not apply to the best anglers, to get you thinking a bit , try finding out what has been working on the dam you are going to fish , if you get 2 or 3 different baits from 2 or 3 different anglers , try combinations of a flavoured feed of one of the working flavours with a flavoured hookbait of one of the others , do not go overboard with strengthening the flavours keep the strength like the other anglers fished , then see which is the attractor which is the taker , i am certain this approach could bring great success , by the way Ron with the TCP , used neat we would put 1 or 2 drops out of an eyedropper onto 1 method bomb thats all , we have many TCP dips here but for instance we would take 1 x 100 ml of Almond flavour and put half a teaspoon of TCP in , and this is 90% of the time a CALLER bait used on the method bomb to bring the fish to your set up the TAKER would be say a pineapple sweet corn grain ( mealie pip as we call them ) the possibilities are endless for both Carp and Course fishing , if you consider a shark can pick up the smell of blood one part per million from 1 mile away , Carp do not have that sense of smell but its not less than 50% lower , also any animals first instinct is to survive , and if a fish picks up the scent of some element it is lacking in its system that is important to its life , its brain triggers it to go to that element straight away , once it gets there its senses may well prefer the other offering , but i can promise you put the right thing into the water and as we say here "the lights will come on".
i hope this thread sparks more interest , thank you for your input guys , Ron i am going away this week now and will e mail you next week Best Regards from all your pals in SA Mike

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Sorry guys forgot something after reading your replies again , the rig most used here is called a "sliding rietvlei" trace , it is both a method feeder rig AND a chod rig in one so you can imagine it tells you a lot about the bottom 150 meters plus away .
Mike

 

[dezza]

And that's all quite true chaps. The distances the SA anglers can cast are truly remarkable and with such a small amount of weight.

Now go out with your 13 foot 31/2 lb TC rod equipped with big pit reel and a 4oz lead and try casting 180 metres, not yards! I'll wager that very very few anglers in the UK can do it. Now attach a fair sized loaded method feeder to the end of the line and cast that. I doubt if the average UK carp angler could reach 80 yards, let alone 180 metres.

Most of these anglers use 2.75 TC 12 foot rods with big pits loaded right to the edge of the lip.

I've seen them cast such distances make no mistake.

 

[cg74]

I don't think any of these anglers were in the England Squad. The English team were composed mainly of specimen style carp anglers.

As regards the "Chod" rig, what is really in a name? In angling there has for time immemorial been a tendency to "canonise" various rigs, techniques and styles of fishing. For instance: "Maggot Feeder", "Groundbait Feeder", "Stick", "Waggler", "Pole at 11 metres", "He's on the tip", etc etc. Such terminology can be very misleading to beginners.

And in describing rigs, I certainly do not want to sound dogmatic. "You MIGHT call that set up a Chod Rig". for example. These are only my own opinions and I don't think such ideas should be written in stone.

But a good idea is proved by its effectiveness, and the short link paternoster is one of the most effective carp fishing techniques ever invented. That is for sure.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

After a fair bit of investigation, what appears to be termed a chod rig in the UK is a short link paternoster with a number of refinements, such as in some cases, the length of lead core, or the helicopter set up, or the use of a pop-up.

South Africans use pop ups (they call them "floaties") a great deal but in some cases the use of lead core is banned, as it is in this country.

One of the lakes I fish states on the rules that "chod rigs and lead core lines are banned!"

Regards team selection, surely the selector(s) should choose the best men for the job. Besides the fish ARE match sized and not what any remotely serious UK specimen carp angler would call a specimen sized fish.

As for the "tendency to canonise various rigs" I'm sorry but that's a bit rich coming from the original rig pedant. That and I'd say the examples listed are more about an expression of detail to most anglers.

Mike, your last post made interesting reading and like I've said before; thinking anglers will always learn from others experiences. When those experiences are a little alien to their norm, its even more thought provoking trying to interpret too being applicable to there own fishing.



PS, Please don't mention long range casting on this forum, many on here have an utter disdain of the practice.

 

[dezza]

PS, Please don't mention long range casting on this forum, many on here have an utter disdain of the practice.

What a truly strange comment.

Long range casting can be essential to success on some waters, although many carp anglers today cast long distances for casting sake.

 

[cg74]

Long range casting can be essential to success on some waters, although many carp anglers today cast long distances for casting sake.

I wholly agree but whenever someone on here mentions casting beyond 3-4 rod lengths, out come the knockers (not you) with inane questions like; why do you have to cast so far? Or are you not casting past the fish?

Never thinking outside their (often limited) experiences of carp fishing; parochial springs to mind!

Regards those that are into long range casting just for hell of it, good it makes my fiishing easier, not that I've seen many doing it...... Maybe it's a northern thing?

 

[sam vimes]

Regards those that are into long range casting just for hell of it, good it makes my fiishing easier, not that I've seen many doing it...... Maybe it's a northern thing?

Colin,
not as I recall from the time I worked down in Oxfordshire. Fished the local and rather well known gravel pits on occasion. I was often the only one on a lake casting thirty yards or less. I wasn't happy pushing my gear of the time to fish any further than fifty or sixty yards anyway. I'm absolutely sure that I was the only one that would take a float rod and a pint of maggots.

 

[cg74]

Colin,
not as I recall from the time I worked down in Oxfordshire. Fished the local and rather well known gravel pits on occasion. I was often the only one on a lake casting thirty yards or less. I wasn't happy pushing my gear of the time to fish any further than fifty or sixty yards anyway. I'm absolutely sure that I was the only one that would take a float rod and a pint of maggots.

Bleedin tench anglers.

 

[sam vimes]

Bleedin tench anglers.

Two ounce rudd angler might be more accurate! The succession of folks walking past shaking their heads and muttering always made me smile.

 

[chav professor]

Does anyone really have an issue with long distance casting?????

Does anyone really have a problem with bolt rigs for any species????

Does anyone really have a problem with fishing more than one rod????

Does anyone really have a problem with someone fishing in a a bivvy????

People do express a personal held opinion on such topics, this being the nature of a forum - BUT then people then get all defensive on forums and get all 'hear we go again, someone telling me how to fish' about it.........

Tollerance, peace and love all though there are some wind up merchants

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

Does anyone really have an issue with long distance casting?????

Does anyone really have a problem with bolt rigs for any species????

Does anyone really have a problem with fishing more than one rod????

Does anyone really have a problem with someone fishing in a a bivvy????

People do express a personal held opinion on such topics, this being the nature of a forum - BUT then people then get all defensive on forums and get all 'hear we go again, someone telling me how to fish' about it.........

Tollerance, peace and love all though there are some wind up merchants

Cheers Chav,

You saved me a lot of typing...

PS: only one 'L' in tolerance so it's 9/ 10 despite the quality of the post

Ron,

Any chance of reading your article? I'm fascinated by the SA's attention to flavour combos...

Is it due to be published, or if I've missed a copy of CAT, any chance of a copy by email?

 

[linshan]

Post deleted

 

[chav professor]

Funny thing this and very timely - i was just thinking what with all the improvements and that, I was just thinking all we need now is american chicks posting opinions of American football....... Stella!

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:31 ----------

post deleted: kind of makes this post irrelavent! he he...... still, I haven't got a clue how american football works, it doesn't seem to matter in games of this calibre..........