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This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Do Fish Feel Pain?
Do Fish Feel Pain?
- Thread starter FishingMagic
- Start date
Rod
Member
It would simply be of no biological or evolutionary advantage for fish to feel pain. It would mean, for example, that every time a cod ingested a mature crab, the shell would cause severe discomfort; same goes for chub and barbel eating large signal crayfish, or pike eating spiny perch. Most of us have caught fish with cormorant lacerations which, had these been inflicted on humans, the victim would be hospitalised, in distress if not given pain-killing drugs, and quite likely in intensive care. Fish with such wounds on the other hand are obviously feeding, and not too distressed by their injuries, otherwise they would be in at least partial shutdown mode.
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Fully agree apart from the fact that many sea fish eat crabs only when they have shed their shells (pealers as they are known) and are soft, but spot on with perch being eaten by pike. I did write on it years ago so read that as my comments if you like...
chav professor
Well-known member
Interested on the hard back crab idea.... I used to sea fish regularly and keeping and cleaning crab traps in the spring was central to getting bait - peelers are a fantastic bait.
Ironically, having gutted more than my fair share of cod and bass (my father was a commercial fisherman) - the stomaches of cod and bass often had hard back crabs in the stomach cavity.
Having said that - never caught a fish on a hard back crab.....
I am happy top accept fish don't feel pain.... would I feel any differently about fishing if a new study proved beyond doubt they did?... would it change my opinion on fishing?
Dunno - I'm sh!te at golf and there aren't many pastimes that float my boat in the same way.
Ironically, having gutted more than my fair share of cod and bass (my father was a commercial fisherman) - the stomaches of cod and bass often had hard back crabs in the stomach cavity.
Having said that - never caught a fish on a hard back crab.....
I am happy top accept fish don't feel pain.... would I feel any differently about fishing if a new study proved beyond doubt they did?... would it change my opinion on fishing?
Dunno - I'm sh!te at golf and there aren't many pastimes that float my boat in the same way.
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Yes, thinking about it, my statement saying 'only' was a bit exagerated perhaps. Peelers are the best bait, but I have also found hard shell in the stomachs of sea fish, you've reminded me now of the many mussel shells I've retrieved. In fact, off Conway (NW) is the best place for trawling for plaice, but I defy anyone to catch them regularly with worms or other soft baits, they eat tiny pea mussels as hard as rocks. Fish must blow these hard bits out after a while, vomiting in other words, can't see them digesting it.
chav professor
Well-known member
The skipper of a boat out of Deal told me that at a certain time of year the cod that were landed were full of star fish.I once took hard back crab from guernsey out to a mid channel wreck were we caught many cod we fished one rod on every drift with crab not a fish was caught on crab but they did survive being lowered 3oo feet and bought up again.
bennygesserit
Well-known member
I am sure fish do feel stimuli otherwise why would they move from cold to warm water or vice versa why do they move if you touch them so they do feel something I think the question should be more how aware are they to me they are almost hard wired like biological robots, alive- yes, but aware ? Barely.
So I wouldn't hook a dog in the mouth because that would be cruel but I have no compunction doing the same to a fish
---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------
An oft seen post by non anglers, especially on a articles associated with Keith the seal , is how would you like to be hooked in the mouth and pulled out of your house, well the simple answer is of course I wouldn't but its a pre loaded and stupid question.
So I wouldn't hook a dog in the mouth because that would be cruel but I have no compunction doing the same to a fish
---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------
An oft seen post by non anglers, especially on a articles associated with Keith the seal , is how would you like to be hooked in the mouth and pulled out of your house, well the simple answer is of course I wouldn't but its a pre loaded and stupid question.
You should ask them if they would like being chewed up by a seal. It makes no difference if they do or do not feel pain the antis will always be anti do not pander to them it is a waste of time . As for analogies when a fish is hooked it will pull away from the pressure but a bull can be lead by the ring in its nose it means nothing at the end of the day to the people who say it is cruel to fish.
chav professor
Well-known member
The word 'pain' is subjective.... the best response I have read on this topic was by Kevin Clifford in this months 'Coarse Angling Today'.... It mirrors most anglers opinions that stress and discomfort needs to be kept as minimal as possible.
Most anglers take pride in returning their catch and consider their actions thoughtfully - no emotional harm comes to a fish that has been caught and released - and that is the difference and why I have no compunction over my actions.
john - maybe some people do think that fish are in constant pain, but then they clearly have a different definition of what constitutes pain to the majority, or dont understand what a poikilotherm is.
chav professor
Well-known member
To be fair..... stick a warm blooded mammal into freezing water.... saying that, my dog loves a swim - doesn't matter how cold!
Fish are cold blooded.... why should a fish feel uncomfortable in its natural environment?
Guess its hard for us homeothermic creatures to relate to our distant poikilothermic cousins.
barbelboi
Well-known member
If they feel pain why do they pull away when hooked? If you could feel pain when hooked in any part of your body you certainly wouldn’t pull in the opposite direction.
Jerry
chav professor
Well-known member
This is not the strongest argument that fish don't feel pain IMO. Nerve endings enable animals to respond to their environment. A hook in the mouth is a significant stimulus and alien to a fish. because it does not respond in the same way as a higher organism would comprehend does not dismiss the sensation as a negative.
What is important is what happens to the message and how it is processed in the brain. To that end, the fish does not have the capacity for an emotional response to the stimulus.
---------- Post added at 03:07 ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 ----------
In direct contrast Dolphin Rescue Video 23-01-2013 - YouTube
barbelboi
Well-known member
That's pretty much as I see it Chav, I believe that when hooked and wriggling, a fish is impervious to pain because it does not have the necessary brain power. If they feel pain why do they pull away when hooked? was just a question for those of a different opinion as I don't believe that is a reaction a creature in pain.
Jerry
Jerry
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
I think pain as humans know it is a very subjective thing anyway; our paramedics ask 'on a scale of 1 to 10...".
We can only associate pain with mammals as I've seen no evidence of any other group of creature displaying any signs of true 'pain'. I have no qualms about hooking a maggot so why should I be concerned about hooking a fish? These creatures are totally alien to humans and we cannot relate to them at all.
I would however be horrified to hook a mammal, of any species.
Hence the typical Anti-angling comment of "how would you like it if..." really doesn't apply. Anthropomorphism - long word but says it all.
We can only associate pain with mammals as I've seen no evidence of any other group of creature displaying any signs of true 'pain'. I have no qualms about hooking a maggot so why should I be concerned about hooking a fish? These creatures are totally alien to humans and we cannot relate to them at all.
I would however be horrified to hook a mammal, of any species.
Hence the typical Anti-angling comment of "how would you like it if..." really doesn't apply. Anthropomorphism - long word but says it all.
chav professor
Well-known member
Agreed, the term 'pain' or indeed 'pleasure' has no place in the life of 'lower' organisms. Further more, I have no compunction towards livebaiting.... the only reason for this to be banned is down to flawed reasoning and not worthy of consideration IMO.
I respect other opinions of the subject and would in no way force my opinions on others.... its a shame other 'brothers of the angle' don't see it that way. When anglers call for methods, barbed hooks, tackle, etc to be banned - they should be careful what they wish for. Especially as they empower there statements and ignorance with the phrase 'gives ammunition to the antis'.....