Martin Gay's 50lber: The Last Word.

Cliff Hatton

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I know where Martin Gay caught his incredible haul of huge commons including the famous 50lber. No, I have no intention of revealing the whereabouts because such revelation was expressly what Martin, who died suddenly and prematurely 14 years ago, did not want.



Those who followed last year’s string of powerful, informative articles from Eddie Benham and I will undoubtedly recall the strength of feeling among those who believed the massive fish to have come from somewhere in Canada; those who SAID, without a shred of evidence, that the massive fish were caught from Lake Ontario and those who KNEW the fish were caught in this country. Those in this latter group were close friends of Martin whose testimonies were utterly consistent. In addition to this, it was proven that Martin was in Hornchurch, Essex, attending a club meeting at the time he was supposedly catching carp 4,000 miles away in Canada. In any case, the stories peddled by the chairman of the Carp Society’s ‘Steering Committee’ were, by any standard, fanciful beyond words; indeed, they were absurd.

At this early point, there most certainly will be readers asking themselves why this ‘revelation’ was not made by me at the time. The answer is both truthful and simple: it just hadn’t dawned on me until the FishingMagic debate was coming to a close. The fact is it was me who had shown this incredible water to Martin three or four years before he decided to go back for a thorough exploration. Had I fished it when I first found it OR by ‘invitation’ when Martin discovered its potential years later, it could well have been yours truly posing with the record-breaking common carp and taking steps to keep the venue secret – and I would have!

I have always loved Ordnance Survey maps. I can pore over a single map for a couple of hours or more, finding them every bit as absorbing as a really good book. From my early twenties and right into my fifties I thought nothing of satisfying my curiosity for a patch or a ribbon of blue by driving as much as 200 miles overnight in order to be by the water at dawn. One such venture saw me drive to the River Banwy in N.W Powys when a huge chub of 8lbs + was reported many years ago, 1994 perhaps. It was on one of these many trips that both Martin and I used to make - quite independently of each other – that I discovered a lake full of potential and nicely off the beaten track...

I’d seen no fish but my intuition told me it was well worth a return visit with some gear when the season eventually opened. I got home fairly late the same day and phoned Martin next morning to tell him about my discovery. There was no great urgency to return so it was, as I recall, some weeks before we set off together armed with Polaroids and a packed lunch.
The lake was reached via a little-used public footpath and after a walk of perhaps ten minutes we were able to see the distinctly blue water through the thick copse of hawthorn. Pushing through, we found ourselves standing on a narrow gravel bank and looking down through 8-10 feet of clear water. No more than thirty seconds passed before a group of around ten good carp appeared and circled the swim like fish in an aquarium! Indeed, this was how Martin described it between gasps of disbelief and sheer merriment (I can hear him laughing now…) None were monsters or what you might call big fish but they were good ‘uns up to 15-16 lbs. Martin and I would have been in plain sight of these fish but it’s very likely that they’d had little experience of Human intervention.

In due course they moved on so Martin and I edged our way along the waters-edge, stooping all the time to avoid the hawthorns. As we made our way around a bay we were able to get a fuller picture of the area and one or two major features were noted. We didn’t circle the whole lake, opting to sit upon a hillock and eat our lunch by a small promontory which effectively marked the end of the bay. We saw no more fish but we did feast our eyes on this gorgeous piece of water before returning to the car and that – as far as I was concerned – was that. But Martin always was one with an eye to the future whereas I always lived for the day, basically. It is only now that I understand how Martin would have ‘clocked’ that lake with an entry in his mental diary…

When Martin eventually returned and made his phenomenal catches he chose long-time friend and fellow committee member, Eddie Benham, to proof-read his accounts and to flag-up anything that might betray the lake’s location. Now this was Martin through and through. He could have asked Eddie to scrutinize a complete pack of lies but Martin was a scrupulously honest man who’d have wanted to tell the truth without giving too much away. Based on what he read and was told by Martin in general conversation about his captures, Eddie built up a mental picture of the lake and its surrounds and subsequently drew a map of an area he – Eddie – could not recognize. Fortunately, Eddie hung on to his map for years, along with all those wonderful magazine clippings, letters and meeting-minutes he used to such devastating effect in his excellent articles of 2015.
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Eddie Benham: life-long angler and close friend of the late Martin Gay.
The ‘Martin Gay 50lber’ saga lasted some six months with Eddie and I innocently and honestly seeking only to establish that Martin had never fished for carp in Canada and that the fish he caught came from a British water. It was only toward the end that I remembered the day I took Martin to a lake where…that was it! I excitedly phoned Ed and asked if he still had his map. He had, and a day or two later we were sitting in his front room with his artwork spread out on the coffee table. Immediately, I could see it was the place I’d taken Martin to in or around 1986 because certain features were just too prominent to be coincidental; I wouldn’t exactly say the map could be transposed over an official map of the area but it was just too accurate and appropriately annotated for it not to be the water.

Whether or not the water was free or private at that time I don’t know, but I can tell you that it’s private today, in this country and that it has produced carp to 24 lbs for one lucky ****** who’s had a dabble. Would I stake my life on my claim? Probably, yes.

Those who weren’t following the big debate last year would be forgiven for thinking ‘so what?’, but followers of that battle will, I think, appreciate this extra, final chapter in the ‘Martin Gay 50lb Carp’ story
 

nogoodboyo

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Great post Cliff.
The news has been a bit quiet today.
Thanks for bringing this up again.
 

thecrow

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Are you sitting comfortably? then i'll begin :)

Cliff if the fish were caught from the water that you discovered and showed to MG was the one where his catch of big fish came from why on earth didn't he take you along or at least have the courtesy to inform you that he was going to fish it? Also after his first visit if the profile of MG is to be believed shouldn't he as a mate and nice guy have informed you? after all it was "your" water.
 

Philip

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Just a reminder for anyone interested that the editor already admitted in other posts on the subject that he saw what he guessed where a stack of Canoes or Kayaks in the background of the unedited photos.

The logical conclusion we can therefore draw from this is that a Canoe or Kayak club was probably operating on the water. The other possibility is that a random group of kayakers just happened to stack their boats in the background at the exact same moment Martin was taking the photo of a potential record carp. This is unlikely I am sure you will agree so the more likely explanation is that a Canoe or Kayak club operated there.

Now please ask yourself how this ties in with the Editors description in this latest article that the lake was remote and access was via a little used narrow path that required a good 10 minute walk. The Simple answer is it doesn’t. A Kayak or canoe club would not operate on a water where they would have had to drag their boats for 10minutes down a narrow path. They would operate on a water with with easy vehicle access close to the waters edge.
So the logical conclusion we can reach is that the water the editor showed Martin Gay was not the water Martin caught his Carp from.

The second logical conclusion we can reach is that if the editor is certain the water Martin Drew for Eddie was the water he showed Martin then Martin lied to Eddie about where he caught the Carp.

Yes it really is THAT simple. And note, no rudeness, nothing made up, just an unbiased factual joining of the dots.
 

Frothey

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I'm sure I recognise the grass in the pic tho, definitely at a lake.

Where was the original thread, I missed it on my sabbatical and it sounded like fun.

Seeng as how there are so many 50's around now, and the lake is not fish able any more what would the harm be in naming it? Put the whole thing to bed.
 
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sam vimes

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The last word, since the last "last word". Maybe the last one was the final word, or perhaps the penultimate word? I get the feeling that "The annual airing" might be a bit more appropriate.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Crow: I couldn't agree more, but that was Martin and I don't hold it against him or his memory.

Phil:in fact there was an easier way in from the road. Martin told us the water was 'visible from the road' - and it was / is. We took the (little-used) public path because it's always prudent to keep a low profile when exploring new, potentially private waters...it's standard practice, isn't it?

Also, Martin didn't draw a map for Eddie. The map Eddie drew was based purely on the conversational snippets he gleaned from Martin.

Frothy: how much time you got!!? It's all still here on FM.
 

Frothey

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I remember it first time around, before t'interweb and people getting botanists to study the plants, trying to see if they could work out where the grass was local to. All the accusations flying around - only thing was it took longer as it all had to be done by post!
 

no-one in particular

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Proof reading does not mean proving, proof reading means checking the grammar etc. I think this is misleading people into thinking Eddie found proof. This is not the job of a proof reader, if a piece has been proof read it just means the grammar has been checked by an expert..
And I am sorry Cliff but what does this piece prove, that you and MG found a lake with some carp in it of around 15lb in England. I just cannot see how this last chapter changes anything.
In the last big debate I unearthed a description of fishing in the lake Ontario area which described plenty of lakes with 30lb+ carp and 50lb+ carp as not unusual, something unknown in England at the time and still no knowledge of this lake in England, no map, no witnesses, no photographs etc.
Sorry to Cliff and Eddie but the last word is "still no proof."

Its been a great story, Eddie and yourself with a bunch of friends have a lot of faith in each other and a great fish to celebrate; I think you should stop trying to prove it to the angling public unless you all suddenly become willing to reveal what you know and reveal the witnesses, the lake whereabouts, original pictures, maps etc. But as you all refuse to or cannot with just a litany of excuses for it; its not going to happen is it-you should all just forget it ...Sorry but nothings changed for me personally.
 
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ciprinus

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Cliff, imagine my chagrin upon revisiting this site (after a long absence) only to find 'that old onion' being aired once again.
as some would imagine, my first thought was ' oh christ, not again!!' but i will admit that changed upon perusing the post and subsequent replies.
my thoughts turned back on themselves and i now think ' is this man ever going to get a life? is this man ever going to stop trying to exonerate the name of an old angler that most people have never even heard of? is this man never going to stop blarting on about a fish that supposedly weighed in at over 50lb even tho 70% of his captive audience dont even give a monkeys? does this man only live to bring the name 'Martin Gay' back to the level of respectability that only he and maybe one chum think it deserves? if the answer to any of the above is in the positive then does this man not know that the easiest way to do this is just to name the damned water? what the hell do you think it is that you accomplish by bringing this up on a regular basis Cliff?
i will tell you what you have accomplished looking at it from my point of view, the very opposite of what you desire pal.
you have started at the shallow end and dragged Martins name the whole length and breadth of this very muddy little puddle that no one knows the whereabouts of and i would suspect cares little for anyway as the chances of it being still the secret little lake that you found are next to nill.
do us all a favour and PUT UP OR SHUT UP!! preferably the latter ;)
 

Roto Fryer

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As last time its a load of complete and utter bull!!
If you could prove it you would this far down the line there would be no consequences and certainly not for someone who is in the great lake in the sky!
As has been said many times before>>>>>>>>>>> PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
 

Peter Jacobs

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It is undoubtedly an honourable thing for Cliff to continue to support his dearly departed friend over this issue.

Now, that said and hopefully understood and accepted, I have to say that having read all of the submissions on here, and elsewhere, I am at a total loss as to the veracity of the claimed catch given the paucity of factual evidence.

There appears to be a host of empirical evidence but nothing that finally indicates either the true weight of the fish or indeed the venue.

There are, apparently, somewhere some photographs that may, or may not, definitively identify the location (which is really the central issue) and yet we are told that these may have been doctored in order to maintain secrecy as to the venue, however, this only adds to the confusion rather than offer any clarification.

My problem with that line of defence is that this catch was many years ago now, and those original fish are highly unlikely to till be present these day, so what is really preventing identification of the venue?

That a hand drawn map exists, or not, again only goes to further the conjecture over the claims, and it certainly gives no definitive clarification
as to the actual venue where this fish was allegedly caught.

To my mind all of this adds up to nothing other than purely circumstantial evidence, and if this were a Court of Law it would not in any way, shape or form go to providing a safe "conviction"

Notwithstanding this apparent total lack of; solid, real and incontrovertible evidence, I personally like to think that this fish was indeed an English Carp caught from an English venue, if only due to (shall we say) romanticism . . . . . on my part.
 
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Frothey

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I believe they were caught, but the reason they've not been caught since is that the otters had them.

Wasn't there a biiiiiig common in Colnmere that wasn't caught, and didn't turn up in the fish kill. Seen long time before the Black Mirror was caught. Case solved.
 

thecrow

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Based on what he read and was told by Martin in general conversation about his captures, Eddie built up a mental picture of the lake and its surrounds and subsequently drew a map of an area he – Eddie – could not recognize. Fortunately, Eddie hung on to his map for years,


Will Eddie post the map on here? the water may be known to some members of FM.
 

tonybull

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Lots of private lakes with 24lb Carp in, so what's the big secret for you not to tell ? or do you just like to think you know something others want to know and that makes you feel something special and in control :eek:mg:
 

thecrow

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Lots of private lakes with 24lb Carp in, so what's the big secret for you not to tell ? or do you just like to think you know something others want to know and that makes you feel something special and in control :eek:mg:

The claim was about a fish in a catch of carp that was over 50lbs which in those days was gigantic.
 

tonybull

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The claim was about a fish in a catch of carp that was over 50lbs which in those days was gigantic.

But he said the lake is now private and Carp to 24lb have been court, so the lake is no big deal now, so just name it that will be the last word.
 
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