Rod Sturdy: Ever Closer Union.

Cliff Hatton

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http://www.fishingmagic.com/news_events/18466-rod-sturdy-ever-closer-union.html

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This article received a small number of complaints on the grounds that it was 'too political' and consequently taken down. Having re-studied Rod's well-written, heart-felt article, FM feels that its content is overwhelmingly fishing and fish-orientated rather than politically based. Angling needs more Rod Sturdy's; people who care enough about fishing and marine matters to sit down for an hour or two and air their thoughts for the benefit of us all. Talk of the EU, quotas, directives et al is, indeed, unappealing to those who - quite understandably - wish to read of bending rods and screaming reels. Thank heaven, then, we have individuals concerned enough to look at the drier aspect of our sport. Remember: FishingMagic welcomes articles and stories - humorous, instructive, philosophical, entertaining - from its much-valued readership. We have an enormous wealth of experiences to share so DO write in with yours. In fact, let's make this an official appeal!

The often-repeated phrase ‘ever closer union’ is one aspect of the EU that has filled me and many others with a sense of dread. The prospect of a European super-state formed of former independent, sovereign countries, and with centralised administration and legislative bodies calling the shots, is something I personally would choose to live without. The stuff of nightmares, almost.
The EU has shown itself ever more incapable of forming a coherent policy on several issues, with proper agreement among its member states, so much so that it is increasingly more difficult to think of the positive benefits our membership has brought. That is the way I personally see the EU as far as international affairs is concerned; others may think otherwise. And the very best of luck to them. As for the EU as a trading partnership, well that makes better sense…
However, one area in which the EU has been proactive recently on the international front is the marine environment: the creation of the first marine conservation zone to be established in international waters. The Ross Sea marine park is a conservation project brokered between 24 nations and the EU; establishing it has been a hard slog – 5 long years of failed negotiations passed before the deal was done. It has been hailed as a marine conservation triumph, the Ross Sea representing a huge area, as big as France and Spain combined, and the agreement not to fish or exploit the area is good for the next 35 years.
Issues of politics and sovereignty apart, let me remind you of one further field where the EU has shown admirable leadership: its laying down of environmental standards which need to be either maintained or striven for. And there are plenty of them, so much so that the UK, in common with other member countries, does not come up to scratch on many. Air quality is one, and more importantly for anglers, water quality.
The European Water Framework Directive (WFD) sets out water quality standards for member states and a time-frame for their achievement. But only a meagre 17% of UK waters were up to standard when they were meant to be, in 2015. In fact the general situation in the UK is that we are as a nation woefully short of the target when it comes to the aquatic environment. No single EU member state has in fact yet fulfilled the criteria as laid down.
Does this mean that WFD standards are unduly strict? No, the standards relate in a realistic manner to what rivers should be: living watercourses which are an integral part of the environment. This means that it is the EU which has given the long-term vision. It is for example the Urban Waste Water Directive which essentially, some 20 years ago, triggered the clean-up of the UK’s rivers. It is the WFD which has reinforced and maintained the admirable principle of making the polluter pay.
Proper environmental standards are things which have been sadly lacking, or had little influence in the UK’s political decision-making process. Normally I - along with the majority of people I assume - am not at all fond of endless documents laying down standards and norms, but things like the WFD are an exception in my book. Long-winded and comprehensive they may very well be, but at least they do provide environmental leadership and long-term vision where it has previously been lacking.
Too often those in positions of leadership, and that of course includes our dear friends the politicians, have looked on environmental standards as things which can be watered down, fudged, or in the worst case, totally ignored. If there is one thing which these people as a breed unfortunately tend to lack, it is long-term vision. So of course they need to be constantly lobbied in order to persuade them to act responsibly.
It is only in recent times that politicians have given particular thought to, let alone attempted to get to grips with - and then only in a half-hearted fashion - such things as flood management and water policy. I still have in mind a certain fairly recent environment secretary’s rather flippant admission on air that the UK had no flood management policy, or even any particular drought strategy come to that.
Even more problematical is the marine situation, and with it the future of UK recreational sea angling. I can hardly imagine dear little Britain going it alone on its own marine resources, being as close as it is to its European neighbours. Since much of our commercial fishing is done in EU and other waters, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to define boundaries beyond which British commercial fishermen may not stray, or into which others may not intrude. Most stocks are to some extent shared with other countries. Realistically, many years of renegotiations lie ahead.
We are in no position to claim fish stocks as our own and act like Iceland in the 1970’s: warding off mainland European and other ‘invaders’ with gunboats. It is difficult enough to forecast the full implications of Brexit for commercial fishing, let alone try to fathom out how it might affect recreational angling.
But the Brexit process will present the perfect opportunity for anglers, in the shape of the Angling Trust, to lobby for certain species to be designated as recreational-only, or for stricter quotas and size limits to be enforced. Bass are a case in point. There was a sea-change (if you will pardon the pun) in 2014, when politicians finally woke up to the economic importance of recreational sea angling. They were persuaded that sea angling, as opposed to commercial sea fishing, generates much more value in terms of employment in needy coastal areas. So the time is ripe to push home the case for the needs of recreational angling, and for the proper recognition of social and economic benefits it brings.
I suspect that Brexit, once the process gets properly under way, will spark a widespread reaction among interested parties as to why they deserve special attention: commercial interest groups, companies, manufacturers, entrepreneurs, farmers and commercial sea fishing interests will all be out to make sure that they come out of the process as they each individually would wish to.
There is still everything to play for. Brexit will bring the opportunity to tailor European environmental principles to our own needs in the UK. It will be the perfect opportunity, once we are free of the Common Agricultural Policy, to push for sound use of agricultural land, with a system of payments to go with this. It will be the perfect opportunity to campaign against the widespread growing of maize, which is notorious for causing soil erosion and river degradation.
But make no mistake, angling will be just one lobby among a crowd of others who have their eye on the Brexit opportunity to push their own case. And there is no real reason to think that their view of the future will coincide with ours. The National Farmers’ Union were not slow to start putting forward their own case immediately after the referendum.
It is therefore now more than ever important that we anglers support our representative body, the Angling Trust, in the run-up to Brexit, and beyond. Because make no mistake, if the sort of political free-for-all that I envisage actually comes about, proper representation, and with it the clout to be able to influence government policy, will be the key thing to defend and enhance our sport.
To put it in plain language, anglers, whether of the game, coarse or sea variety, will need to stick together. So just for once, and in this particular context, ‘ever closer union’, if it means anglers closing ranks, in the form of memberships and donations, with the Angling Trust for the battles ahead, would be something I really welcome.
 

thecrow

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This paragraph has nothing to do with fishing of any sort it is a political statement and as such contravenes the T&Cs of the site, if this is allowed then it sets a precedent for allowing all political comment.

The often-repeated phrase ‘ever closer union’ is one aspect of the EU that has filled me and many others with a sense of dread. The prospect of a European super-state formed of former independent, sovereign countries, and with centralised administration and legislative bodies calling the shots, is something I personally would choose to live without. The stuff of nightmares, almost.
 

sam vimes

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I feel for your moderators. They've been hung out to dry. As soon as anyone makes a remotely political post, that is subject to moderation, they'll be accused of hypocrisy and bias.
 

peter crabtree

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What with this potentially divisive article ( which we voted off ) and the Martin gay thing resurfacing, one wonders wtf our editor is trying to achieve?
 

thecrow

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This is another political paragraph from the article, is there to be a free for all when it comes to politics on FM?

The EU has shown itself ever more incapable of forming a coherent policy on several issues, with proper agreement among its member states, so much so that it is increasingly more difficult to think of the positive benefits our membership has brought. That is the way I personally see the EU as far as international affairs is concerned; others may think otherwise. And the very best of luck to them. As for the EU as a trading partnership, well that makes better sense…
 

greenie62

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This was on the ATr Facebook page:
Yesterday at 15:55
Angling Trust Ambassador Rod Sturdy's latest blog is up at the link below

http://www.fishingmagic.com/news_events/headlines/18463-rod-sturdy-ever-closer-union.html

A couple of things emerge from this:
- the post by Cliff references the article as a FM News article by Ron,
- the ATr Facebook quote references the article as Ron's blog.

If it was originally presented as a FM post or article then the Mods should have 'control' of it regarding whether a (non-)member contravenes the Ts&Cs - however, if it was an article referencing someone else's (already extant) Blog - then it is outwith the purview of the Mods.

This article appears to have been presented here by the Editor under his Member ID - or is he simply refencing an external Blog - if so - where is it?

If the Ed had simply referenced an external Blog or Article then it wouldn't have been subject to the FM Members Ts&Cs - but posting the contents on the forum would seem to put the judgement into the Mods hands!:eek:

Don't people make life complicated! :confused::eek:mg:
 

Peter Jacobs

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This is another political paragraph from the article, is there to be a free for all when it comes to politics on FM?

Moderation note:


No, there is not.

Regardless of the Editor's choice to reissue the substance of Rod Sturdy's article please rest assured that any posts that contravene the T&C's of the site or indeed the notes to the forums will be moderated and the member will be warned as to their future behaviour.
 

thecrow

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Moderation note:


No, there is not.

Regardless of the Editor's choice to reissue the substance of Rod Sturdy's article please rest assured that any posts that contravene the T&C's of the site or indeed the notes to the forums will be moderated and the member will be warned as to their future behaviour.


Why then has this article been allowed on the site when it is clearly political? I don't agree with some of the political statements and from reading your post cannot answer with anything political or my post will be moderated and I would be warned.

Just one thing I would ask if I may, how are you going to warn Mr sturdy when he isn't a member?

PS I cant find anything in the T&Cs that mentions politics not being allowed, I must have missed it though.
 
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Peter Jacobs

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My personal view is that it is impossible to "debate" with the author as he is not a member . . . . therefore any "comment" falls on totally deaf ears, os the exercise is pointless.

The Editor's choice of article is paramount whereas the conduct on the forums is the responsibility of the moderation team.


From a moderation point of view then please read the Terms and Conditions specifically item 6. FORUM POSTING/MEMBERSHIP RULES together with the advisory notes to the Bait Box Section.

It is worth bearing in mind the following from the General /section:

"2. The owners Fish and Fly Ltd and all moderators of Fishing Magic (fishingmagic.com) reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason and to cancel the registration of any registrant for any reason whatsoever and without notification.

3. Breaches of the above rules and policies may result in your membership being terminated.
Please show respect for your fellow anglers at all times on the forums.
The owners Fish and Fly Ltd and all moderators of Fishing Magic (fishingmagic.com) reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason and to cancel the registration of any registrant for any reason whatsoever and without notification."
 

greenie62

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My personal view is that it is impossible to "debate" with the author as he is not a member . . . . therefore any "comment" falls on totally deaf ears, os the exercise is pointless......

SO - a non-member can write a load of vitriolic twaddle which - if the Editor fancies - can be posted on this forum by the Ed. with no significant comment permitted from members? Doesn't quite seem to be how a Forum would normally work as a place of debate! :eek:mg:
 

thecrow

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Terms and Conditions specifically item 6. FORUM POSTING/MEMBERSHIP RULES together with the advisory notes to the Bait Box Section.

I read through that Peter (twice) but still cant see anything to do with politics.

From the rest of your post I get the feeling that I shouldn't be posting on this thread any more?
 

Peter Jacobs

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SO - a non-member can write a load of vitriolic twaddle which - if the Editor fancies - can be posted on this forum by the Ed. with no significant comment permitted from members? Doesn't quite seem to be how a Forum would normally work as a place of debate! :eek:mg:

In essence I would have to basically agree with your assessment.

However, I would have to say that comments are of course "permitted" providing that they are in line with our usual rules and conditions.

That said, and noting the actual author is not an FM member then any directly pointed questions are rather pointless.

That said, Rod Strudy has reproduced this piece on his FB page where you can comment, in accordance with the relevant policies of FB, naturally.

You will find it here:

https://www.facebook.com/rod.sturdy

But viewing it on there it seems he doesn't want to answer questions there either . . . .

Personally that is really just "preaching" which personally I find rather counter productive to the case he is trying to promote . . . .

Anyway, maybe it is better to make comments overon FB as they have a more lose set of policies there apparently.
 
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Neil Maidment

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My personal opinion is:

Editorial decisions are clearly the prerogative of the Editor and his team and quite rightly too. However, I disagree with the latest decision on this subject.

No issue with publishing this article on FM's main Home Page where it should receive a wide airing particularly from the many and varied feeds. However I do think the original editorial decision to link the article to the forum was a poor one. That was subsequently reversed and the link was removed.

I think the decision made to now post the text of the article directly to the forum is another poor one.

By definition the forum is an interactive place for discussion and debate. As far as I am aware Rod is not a member of FM and has never entered any sort of discussion on the forum or elsewhere.

The lack of any perspective from the author's point of view specifically on this subject to any forthcoming questions/views will likely only frustrate the contributors to the thread.
 

Peter Jacobs

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I read through that Peter (twice) but still cant see anything to do with politics.

From the rest of your post I get the feeling that I shouldn't be posting on this thread any more?

Everyone and anyone is encouraged to post on any thread Crow, providing that said comments are in line with the site's T's & C's and the Advisory Notes to the forums, as follows:

"For ALL non-fishing topics. Banter, jokes, moans and whinges - EXCEPT: Race, Religion & Non fishing Politics. Read only if you are not offended by strong language. ***'s should be used in profanities."

Again, however, as Mr Sturdy is not a member here then any direct questions are probably better addressed to his FB page where he has recreated his article.
 

thecrow

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however, as Mr Sturdy is not a member here then any direct questions are probably better addressed to his FB page where he has recreated his article.

Tried that and the result was just the same as on here, nothing!

Considering this chap is an ambassador for the Angling Trust he is doing very little to encourage anglers to join by debating with them, how can anyone persuade without having contact with them? he always finishes his articles off by asking anglers to join the trust, I have always thought that persuasion is better than preaching particularly when no one can challenge the preaching.
 

sam vimes

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I'm surprised to see that there are some moderators still here! I can only commend your loyalty to FM.
 

no-one in particular

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Its all a bit odd, someones having a pop at him on the Facebook page about FM, no answers there either. Which is a shame because I would like to have a discussion with him about some of his views re EU legislation on Facebook or anywhere but whats the point.

Never mind, personally I don't mind the politics, it can be ignored but maybe it would have been better to cut some of it out in this article, stuck to the relevant fishing matters. But I understand the rules and why they are there for mere mortals.

The fact he's an ambassador for the AT and does not get involved reminds me of the conversation with Mark Lloyd of the trust on here a while back, where it was suggested they could engage more with anglers on the internet media, a trouble shooter of sorts, but I don't think Mr Sturdy would be right for the job.
 
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Peter Jacobs

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#17 (permalink) Today, 14:48 markg Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: South East England Posts: 2,258 Re: Rod Sturdy: Ever Closer Union. Its all a bit odd, someones having a pop at him on the Facebook page about FM, no answers there either. Which is a shame because I would like to have a discussion with him about some of his views re EU legislation on Facebook or anywhere but whats the point.
No one is having a "pop" at him at all, but they have simply asked him why he refuses to engage with others having penned any pieces, and it is not just this one as his record is there for all to see.

As an Ambassador for the Angling Trust he cannot be seen to ignore comments or questions, otherwise his title is just a hollow description.

If some one has the fervour to write so convincingly then it is wholly devalued if and when the author then reissues to engage and support the courage of his convictions.
 
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no-one in particular

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No one is having a "pop" at him at all, but they have simply asked him why he refuses to engage with others having penned any pieces, and it is not just this one as his record is there for all to see.
Well , could call it a bit of a pop quote- "I see your article is back on FM and causing more bother, why dont you join FM and engage with the anglers you seem so ready to preach to? is it because you are afraid of debate? you use FM as a vehicle to publicize yourself and the Angling Trust but havent ever engaged in debate with the members on there"

He must read this, he must know his articles appear on FM and I bet a dollar he reads the answers. Ambassadors usually engage, I expect our man in Washington will talk to Mr Trumpit at some point.
And they are not that great as articles go, the bailiff one was a bit of a mishit and this one lacks deeper understanding of the issues it deals with. However, fair enough, he does have a go, does it his way and it is up to the editor.
 
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