Unfit for purpose

Cliff Hatton

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Shortly after starting this, I leant back in my chair and gasped a sigh of exasperation: I was constructing a rant, wasn’t I? Surely, on the very serious subject of global plastic pollution I should be writing something more than just a lengthy moan about the state of our seas and rivers. But how? What do I know about plastic degradation, its chemical make-up, its effects on the environment and its inhabitants? I sat pondering this and even considered researching the subject but, then, I thought, no! A rant it’ll be! Why not? For decades the world’s governments and its peoples have been warned time and again by environmentalists, conservationists, anglers, bird-watchers, botanists and many, many others, about our planet’s undignified fate if we fail to take waste management seriously.

I count myself amongst those ‘…many, many others…’ Over 20 years ago I was writing articles for magazines and sending letters to newspapers highlighting the nightmare of plastics-production; I asked readers to imagine the world’s plastics manufacturers churning-out hundreds of thousands of plastic bottles and food containers every minute and to ignore their brief stay in cupboards and under kitchen sinks…just imagine, I asked, those products being for immediate disposal: how could we possibly keep up? How could we dig a hole fast enough and big enough to accommodate such volume? And if we were to opt for recycling, just how many recycling plants would be needed to make good the disposal of so much material?

Zooming-in Google Earth style to the roads of individual countries – let’s take Great Britain as an example – how can it be that successive ‘Environment Ministers’, MPs, Councillors and a small army of highly influential, well-paid civil servants haven’t noticed, apparently, the sheer ubiquity of plastic-bag trees; hedgerows and verges strewn with rubbish; every roundabout with its triangles of trash; town centres adorned with tins and cups on every level surface and beaches left like refuse-tips come the end of a sunny day? What have we been paying these people for? An ‘Environment Minister’s remit is, presumably, to protect the environment, but it couldn’t be clearer that Prescott, Heseltine, Spelman, Baker, Howard, Beckett, Miliband, Benn and so on have been taking the ****. This is an expression I HATE but here it seems appropriate…an unpleasant expression to describe an unpleasant problem ignored by incompetent charlatans, but they’re far from alone. These scheisters occupy similar positions right around the globe.

Anyone who considers such criticism beyond my station need only ask themselves what they – as an outdoor type and otherwise ordinary person with nothing much to lose - would do in the DoE’s driving-seat: wouldn’t YOU raise merry-hell at the scandalous state of the country and make it your very first priority to press for the heaviest-possible penalties and, possibly, imprisonment for litter-dropping, rubbish-dumping and fly-tipping? Why did the aforementioned tricksters hold back? You’d take the greatest joy, I’m sure, in occupying the front pages with your pledge for 100% plastics recycling – OR ELSE. And because you’re a sensible, conscientious, everyday Joe charged with doing a good job in exchange for a terrific job-package, you’d be banging the environmental drum abroad too, visiting your counterparts and Heads of State to agree alternative materials and clean-up programmes: what the hell has the Environment Minister in Indonesia been doing? IS there an Environment Minister in that country? Perhaps there is, but his or her job is to ruin the environment; the fact of flowing rivers packed solid from bank to bank with plastic cartons would suggest this is no joke.

As with so many other aspects of life today firm, uncompromising action is necessary whether it ‘offends’ or not. I haven’t dropped so much as a sweet-wrapper since the age of around 8; I have never slung an empty can or bottle; never dropped a takeaway carton from a car window and never left a scrap of litter in my swim. Doubtless there are many readers with similar credentials. If WE can do it, why can’t everybody else? And why can’t a GOVERNMENT pay a little less attention to trivia and legislate in no uncertain terms for alternative packaging materials and a 100% litter-free country? Austria achieved this, as did Switzerland and Germany, though judging by the oceans of junk and litter left by the recent waves of illegal immigrants it’s unlikely those countries will remain as pristine as they were. It is, then, even more important that the case for global zero litter tolerance is made a priority by the world’s civilised nations.
 
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thecrow

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The anti litter laws in just this country are virtually a waste of time as they cannot be effectively policed, a change in attitude from both the public and the government is imo needed, I don't normally like the media's next big thing as it can change week to week but plastics are one I do support.

Unfortunately I think its to late, to much is already in the environment and will be there even if it cannot be seen for hundreds of years while that plastic that can be seen gets worse and will extend the shelf life of the problem.
 

flightliner

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Good piece Cliff- and very pertinent .
It was only a week or so ago that a litter strewn beach was on the news after a very hot weekend. It was so littered you were hard pressed to see any sand and all this after so much publicity about the dangers that the seas are facing.There they all were sitting looking at the sea and could'nt give a flying - - - k !
It asks the question is it worth bothering about when so many obviously believe in fairies who come out at night and make it dissapear.
Local councils are ever more eager to fix a computer chip under the lip of residents dustbins that registers the weight of our waste and charge accordingly.
If and when that goes council virus nationwide get ready to witness fly tipping on a scale so large our countryside will be unrecognisable !
 

nottskev

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The anti litter laws in just this country are virtually a waste of time as they cannot be effectively policed,

I don't disagree, Graham, but one problem we have solved is how to persecute individuals for trivial littering "offences", with people fined for dropping a sausage roll whilst passing it to a child (apparently it was eaten by pigeons, but that was no defence), or for pouring coffee down a drain etc etc. Meanwhile, the big stuff, as you say, goes unpunished. Some of these stories, like Johnson's old anti-EU inventions, are simply anti-council propoganda, but not all are, and they show the familiar lack of proportion and perspective in matters of litter and pollution.
 

thecrow

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but one problem we have solved is how to persecute individuals for trivial littering "offences", with people fined for dropping a sausage roll whilst passing it to a child (apparently it was eaten by pigeons, but that was no defence), or for pouring coffee down a drain etc etc.

The easy bit is as you say being done, pay someone to walk about handing out on the spot fines, pays for itself and makes the authorities feel that they are doing their bit.

I get the feeling that its an out of site out of mind society that we live in, how many think about what happens when they flush the toilet? or what they are flushing? Throw something out of the car window and its gone fly tip something in an area where the perpetrator doesn't live and its the same.
 

Peter Jacobs

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Where to start? . . . . .


Regarding plastic in our oceans:

"It turns out that about 90 percent of all the plastic that reaches the world's oceans gets flushed through just 10 rivers: The Yangtze, the Indus, Yellow River, Hai River, the Nile, the Ganges, Pearl River, Amur River, the Niger, and the Mekong (in that order)."

Given those statistics it is readily seen that the problem is not of "our" making although our own litter problem is just that . . . Ours.

When you consider the relative populations of those countries, that are responsible for the 90%, to that of the UK then surely whatever we do here will be of miniscule value to the overall effect?

I also have to wonder how much of "our" plastic that was previously sent to China might have ended up in their rivers?


I travel quite extensively throughout Europe, particularly France and Germany so can speak from direct experience; in Hamburg if you take a stroll along Reeperbahn at 6am you will see an "ocean" of discarded litter and bottles; however, an hour or so later it will be pristine clear again thanks to the little army of street cleaners employed by the City (mostly migrant labour, and legal ones to boot)


The same is true of Paris where the streets are maintianed really clean and litter-free as they depend so much on their tourist teade, particularly in the Summer months.


I was in London last week for 2 days and was amazed at the amount of garbage in the street and when mentioning it to the hotel receptionist was told that the "council just cannot afford any more street cleaners"


My own little city of Salisbury has the same problem on a Sunday morning after the late night revalries of the younger gneration on Saturday nights but even here it taes a few days to clean up as we just don't have the resources, despite having one of the highest Council Taxes in the South.


It seems that we have bred a generation, or two, of people who just don't seem to "give a damn" so the only solution then has to be to employ more and more people to clean up after them?


. . . and don't get me started on anglers who leave litter on the banks!!!"
 
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mikench

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I have commented before on the differences I have noticed on my travels and this thread is a little deja vue! It is my opinion that we are a filthy nation and not helped by the " service " we receive from our local councils. Manchester is a disgrace on a Monday morning if not every morning! Litter bins are overflowing onto the street due to collections being infrequent at best and none existant at worst!

The drive into the city looks like a third world country on a bad day!

In France bins are emptied twice a day, bins on our domain 3 times a week! Compare that to home where it's once a fortnight for domestic refuse and perhaps daily for other public litter bins, if that!

I am not often walking the streets at 3.00 am in Nice but there is an army of operatives, cleaning the streets and public spaces, emptying bins and hosing down the pavements and alleyways! Why cannot we do this?

A good neighbour of mine in England regularly walks the streets of our town, with me in tow, armed with a bin liner and one of those grabber things for picking up litter! We have a mantra that in a country with 66 million people if everybody picked up 3 pieces of litter per day that would be 192 million pieces picked up! It wouldn't take long for our streets and towns to be clean! Dropping litter, flytipping and despoiling our green and pleasant land should be viewed as abhorrent, unacceptable and illegal as driving whilst intoxicated, smoking in a public space, defecating in the street and fighting in public!

All of these things are the norm in Scandinavia, France and Spain to my knowledge! They are all illegal in the USA too! In France I buy veg, fruit and meats without any plastic packaging! Even the bags available are biodegradable! God help us when we are on our own!!
 

Cliff Hatton

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It is an absolutely awful thing to say but the Human race fits quite perfectly the OED definition of 'cancer' though we don't really need a book to tell us this, do we? Earth = body. Bad cells = Humanity. Disease = pollution. Again, it's an awful admission but it cannot be denied.

Panama Litter.jpg

A 'paradisaical' Panamanian beach, 2003.
 
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mikench

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Agreed! We lost our tip about 15 years ago and now have to travel 8 miles to use one! Our council do not take garden waste from November to February because there is no demand!!! So at a time when all the leaves are falling, gardens are being tidied and trees and shrubs pruned there are no collections! Clever eh! Drains are clogged and rarely emptied and then they cannot cope with torrential rain and flooding occurs. Money spent proactively is a mere fraction of what is then spent afterwards by councils, insurers and you and me!

We wonder why flytipping goes on! Every supermarket carries about 20 different brands of water from Avian to Peckham Spring and we buy it! It's water pure and simple. I do not buy it any more and refill my bottles again and again from the tap.
 

thecrow

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We are a throw away nation but its not just litter we throw away its people as well, if some are prepared to do that what chance do we have of getting them to not litter?
 

steve2

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2 reports in paper.
Travellers leave tons of rubbish after being moved on. No one is fined.
Person drops fag end, fined for dropping litter in street.
Councils will go for the easy target.

Like as been said before on here we ship our rubbish round the world so we are more to blame for the plastic waste in Asia Rivers than they are.

Drinking water in plastic bottles the biggest con trick ever inflicted on as by marketing people. Just how much pollution is created making the bottles and then transporting them to be filled and then flying them round the world. Only to be dumped after one use.
It’s not the supermarkets fault they only give us what we want and we want plastic bottles filled with water.

Why if we are all that worried why do we sit back and let it happen.
 

Cliff Hatton

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"Drinking water in plastic bottles the biggest con trick ever inflicted on as by marketing people. Just how much pollution is created making the bottles and then transporting them to be filled and then flying them round the world. Only to be dumped after one use.
It’s not the supermarkets fault they only give us what we want and we want plastic bottles filled with water"




Steve2: something of a contradiction there, ol' boy. You state that the sale of bottled water is '...the biggest con trick ever inflicted on [us] by marketing people' but you go on to write '...they only give us what we want and we want plastic bottles filled with water'.

Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic and that we do, indeed, 'want' bottled water because we've been conditioned to want it (I've only ever bought it in tropical regions where you Buy or Die) But for consumers in temperate climates and 'advanced' countries, it's probably not that much better than Peckham Spring. One huge advantage of plastic bottles is something that, incredibly, is never mentioned: we no longer fear the horrendous prospect of falling upon broken glass. This was an awful problem at one time with kids - and adults - regularly going to hospital with serious lacerations. The answer must, surely, be the introduction of robust plastic containers and bottles on which we pay a returnable deposit; this, plus an awareness campaign equal in its zeal to those condemning smoking and drink-driving.
 
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Peter Jacobs

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Norway has had a deposit system on all bottles, glass and plastic, for decades.

They recycle 97% of all pastic bottles unlike the UK where the figure is just 50% . . . .


They also have a better approach to litter as, due to the snow, you get to see the litter TWICE, once when dropped and again when the snow melts.
 

thecrow

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plus an awareness campaign equal in its zeal to those condemning smoking and drink-driving

I smoke, I packed up for a while but I like a fag so I started again, I don't drink alcohol at all so the chances of me being caught drink driving are nil and I have never crashed a car through having a smoke. I don't litter, I don't even drop fag ends when I am fishing in fact I take an ashtray with me to collect them. It could be seen in the HDYGO thread in a picture from the last time I fished with Kev.

Figures from 2017 show that around 12billion is payed in tax by smokers while estimates of what they cost the NHS are from 2 to 6 billion, these figures do not take into account the income tax paid by smokers. if everyone stopped smoking there would be even less money around for those that police and pick up our rubbish, what sort of tax rises would be needed to compensate for this?

If anyone doesn't like the fact that I smoke then that's their problem the fact that those same people may be responsible for lots of the rubbish that is dumped is everyones problem.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Crow: I was referring to the enthusiasm with which those campaigns were conducted - not necessarily the focus of them :)
 

thecrow

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Crow: I was referring to the enthusiasm with which those campaigns were conducted - not necessarily the focus of them :)

I understood that Cliff, how many of those that were involved in those campaigns were also involved in dumping rubbish was my point which may have been slightly hidden in amongst the other stuff in my post, in my experience its the type that cannot go anywhere without clutching a bottle of water that get involved in these sort of campaigns, do they all act responsibly and refill their bottle as Mike does or do they just discard it and buy yet another?
 

mikench

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Graham, I smoked cigs as a teenager and student but gave up 35 years ago! You are entitled to smoke and I hope it gives you enjoyment and pleasure! In truth I was never one for smoky rooms and still enjoy a cigar with a pint or glass of wine in the garden! I do not inhale just like the smell, taste and ambience!

As Mark Twain said" giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world! I know because I've done it thousands of times"
 
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thecrow

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After my first heart attack I gave up and then I had a second, that was a waste of time I thought :) then I had another (still not smoking) so I started again, then I packed up for 2 years and have felt worse the latest problem I have is that I have Polycythemia and will probably have to have blood drained on a regular basis but I want it back it can be used in my groundbait or making black pudding :)
 
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