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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    No evidence, no pictures, no location, no witnesses, same as before, nothing to add from where it left off last time. Whats the point?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Apologies for my delay in getting back.
    Eddie told me he'd deleted his article because he felt he just might have said too much, but I thought it was ok. However, on looking at the thread around six days later I found it still in place! Eddie assured me it had disappeared when he deleted it and was puzzled why it had reappeared, so I did it for him.

    Mark g: there ARE pictures of many of Martin's fish available on this site; they are pictured laid-out on green grass. Best of all is the pic of Martin and his whacker, crouching in long grass typical of what you would find around any English lake or gravel pit. There are also pictures of Selman's infamous stark, cold, bare concrete power station outlet from where it is - and was - impossible to fish. There's even a shot of the very swim from where Selman reckons Martin caught the biggie AND a fascinating explanation of how Martin would have gone back to his car (parked just behind, in the road) for a wash and brush-up prior to being photographed. Pity then, isn't it, that the shot - so brashly and conclusively identified by Selman - is of Kingston General Hospital and NOT Lennox power station!

    Do you see the problem here, Mark? At least ask yourself the question: how the hell would Selman know?

    No pictures, Mark? Well how about the one of the shore at the mouth of Selman's outlet? Take another look. Do you honestly think it tallies with what you see in Martin's pics? Well? Do you? If you, somehow, think it might, have you read the geologists' reports and comments? Well? Have you?

    As for evidence, Mark; I would agree that there's only a little more than there was first time around, but during that initial expose of Selman and the Carp Society, Eddie and I provided a huge amount of evidence. Didn't you read it, Mark? And didn't you read that I now fish the water that produced Martin's haul...the very same swims? No?

    Witnesses? We told you that Chris Yates had seen ALL of the untouched pictures (like Eddie and I had) and had confidently stated his belief that the captures were made in this country. We also told you that club committee members 'Mac' McArthy, Micky Tilbrook, Gwynne Davis, John Sutton, John Amos and six others had seen the untouched pictures and reproduced for FM readers their unanimous testimonies that the shots showed only scrub-land of an essentially English nature - not a rocky mountain in sight! Did you read that, Mark?

    For your information, Mark, and for anyone else who wishes to express their doubts about my and Eddie's comprehensive revelations, do - at least - make sure you've actually read everything and then be objective rather than make a bland denunciation with zero reasoning or explanation. All (I think) of those 2015 articles are still here if you use the 'search' facility, Mark.

    What I've written here is but a fraction of what I could retrieve from Eddie's and my articles and an even smaller fraction if I were to include the veritable dossier of information Eddie has in his possession. By the starkest contrast, all the blustering bull-in-a-china-shop Selman has is a pack of lies - from start to finish - that a six year old could recognise.
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 08-09-2019 at 00:54.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Jacobs View Post
    Just out of interest, and fairness, when did Paul Selman last contribute here on FM?
    Sorry for the delay, Peter.

    CoCo will almost certainly have viewed the article just recently having been told about it on facebook. As ever, we got the same Lennox lie and the familiar insult about Eddie and I sharing the same ward in a mental hospital. Very probably he chose not to retaliate because he knows his scurrilous fairy-story has been fairly and squarely exposed for all to see. Who knows...he may even have suffered a pang of conscience for destroying the reputation of one of our greatest anglers. He may even have wished to divert attention from his fellow Carp Society members, one of whom, Chris Ball, told the angling world that Martin and his carp would be remembered as George Michael is remembered for his importuning incident.

    CoCo's greatest indictment remains his off-the-scale-absurd, 360 degree about-turn on where the huge carp came from: for 25 years until summer 2015 it was "one million per cent British Columbia" where there is "fantastic big-carp fishing".

    Then, when informed by 6 Moor Hall A.C committee members and 7 others that they'd seen the original pics before Robin Monday had and had unanimously agreed that the photos showed typical English scrub-land and zero Rockies, he told us with characteristic bombast it was "one million per cent Lennox power station, Ontario [2,000 miles from British Colombia] which is a noted carp area. British Colombia ISN'T" (my capitals)

    Incredibly and most frustratingly, not one of the dozens and dozens of thread-posters in the 2015 series of articles Eddie Benham and I wrote, picked-up on this! Despite our repeated attempts to get this acknowledged, all we got was pointless, bland, negative remarks; it seemed that no one had the ability to actually read and comprehend basic English.

    But I think we're making progress.
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 08-09-2019 at 04:26.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Oh dear.

    Why didnt you provide the link to the thread you closed on the subject last time Cliff ? We were reaching an interesting point and then you abrutly closed the thread with no real explanation as to why.

    Far simpler to just reopen that thread and we can all carry on were we left off last time.

    Makes sense no ?

    I would love the chance to dig a little deeper on the subject of the grey chain link fence,cream coloured sign and multicoloured kayaks in the photos.
    Sorry for the delay, Phil.

    As far as I'm aware, it's not possible to retrieve threads; at least I've never been taught how to and, anyway, I'm not sure I'd want to resurrect some of those negative, ill-considered posts.

    I'm not sure we ever established they were kayaks, Phil...just that there was a stack of coloured objects behind a chain-link fence in the background of one of the pics. Well, I can tell you that the chain-link fence is still there at least! No snow-capped mountains have appeared either.

    When searching the archive here, you'll find that variations bring up different assortments of articles e.g 'Martin Gay' will bring up one lot, but 'Gay's 48 lb carp' will bring up another...or something like that; I can't keep going back to find out - it's 5 o'clock in the morning and I want to get back to bed!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Quote Originally Posted by markg View Post
    No evidence, no pictures, no location, no witnesses, same as before, nothing to add from where it left off last time. Whats the point?
    The evidence I was referring to was the actual evidence (hard evidence) that the fish was caught in this country or in Canada, as I far I can remember there was none, nothing that can nail it without any doubt anyway. The pictures I was referring to were the original unaltered ones that mysteriously got burned that might have proved it without any doubt. The location I referred to was that there is still no location that anyone can see for themselves which might prove it beyond doubt and the witnesses I was referring to where the ones who where there and witnessed the fish who refuse to come forward and, refuse to be named by anyone, they might have proved it beyond any doubt.

    All of these would change the facts but all we are left with is the same convoluted arguments between you and this Selman bloke which will not prove anything without any doubt and I dont want to go all over that again with Eddie or yourself thanks very much so, I am out; for me anyway, I am sure there are others who have not heard it all before.

    If you get any new evidence or recover any of the lost evidence I will listen as I am sure we all will but till then hence my "whats the point" comment". I am not going over all that old ground again which frankly did not convince many people much, it's too convoluted, hard facts, hard evidence is whats needed, location, pictures(and in this case, ones that show location in this country without any doubt as thats the question mark hanging over this, not doctored ones), and witnesses, proper witnesses. Thats the way it is in our game, you know that especially for such an important fish. And no need to shout at me or be condescending, I can read and hear well enough thanks. your frustration is self inflicted, not anyones fault but your own.
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 08-09-2019 at 11:29.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    I’m sorry Cliff but I really think it is out of order to make disparaging comments about a person who is not normally on FM. Hence the reason for my earlier question.

    On the other subject, what happened to Eddie’s post that was previously on the thread after post number 10?
    Last edited by Peter Jacobs; 08-09-2019 at 11:08.

    Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.

    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary. ~

    Patrick F. McManus






  7. #27
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    I've addressed that point, Peter. Scroll back.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Quote Originally Posted by markg View Post
    The evidence I was referring to was the actual evidence (hard evidence) that the fish was caught in this country or in Canada, as I far I can remember there was none, nothing that can nail it without any doubt anyway. The pictures I was referring to were the original unaltered ones that mysteriously got burned that might have proved it without any doubt. The location I referred to was that there is still no location that anyone can see for themselves which might prove it beyond doubt and the witnesses I was referring to where the ones who where there and witnessed the fish who refuse to come forward and, refuse to be named by anyone, they might have proved it beyond any doubt.
    All of these would change the facts but all we are left with is the same convoluted arguments between you and this Selman bloke which will not prove anything without any doubt and I dont want to go all over that again with Eddie or yourself thanks very much so, I am out; for me anyway, I am sure there are others who have not heard it all before.
    If you get any new evidence or recover any of the lost evidence I will listen as I am sure we all will but till then hence my "whats the point" comment". I am not going over all that old ground again which frankly did not convince many people much, it's too convoluted, hard facts, hard evidence is whats needed, location, pictures(and in this case, ones that show location in this country without any doubt as thats the question mark hanging over this, not doctored ones), and witnesses, proper witnesses. Thats the way it is in our game, you know that especially for such an important fish. And no need to shout at me or be condescending, I can read and hear well enough thanks. your frustration is self inflicted, not anyones fault but your own.
    Mark: the only way you will ever have 'proof' is if I or a friend catches the same mirror carp shown in one of Martin's articles. The fish will be rather old by now and, for all I know, its scale pattern may have changed. If it's caught and can be identified, you'll be among the first to know.

    But you referred in your first post to 'evidence' (not proof) and you have been given sufficient first-class evidence to form a firm and reasoned verdict and that simply has to be that CoCo Selman invented the whole disgraceful and highly scurrilous stories because he was incandescent with jealousy. Yes, stories, plural. Again, this goes unaddressed by you, Mark, because you are clearly too busy being negative!

    Can we have something from you, Mark, that confirms / endorses / reinforces / agrees with something Eddie and I have told you? That would be nice.

    *Only the photographer, Martin's wife, witnessed the capture of the 50 lber, Mark. I thought this was well-known.

    **...and I'm sure nobody's ever said the photographs were burned.
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 08-09-2019 at 22:05.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Hi Peter.........You are right, I did delete my post as on second thoughts I felt I might be having too much to say. However, it wasn't a dig at you as I said that I agreed with a lot you had to say, angling fame, carp society etc.

    The carp society got it all wrong back then. According to Selman in June 2013 and I quote 'It is a FACT that when Martin caught those fish he was on holiday in British Columbia, Canada. It is my UNDERSTANDING that the part of the picture blocked out did indeed show a Canadian mountain landscape. These CONCLUSIONS were also accepted as FACT by the Carp Society leadership of the time and his claims were not accepted by us'. Peter, they didn't even see any of the photos.

    But in 2015 he told us, and again I quote ' The fish were caught from a warm water outlet from Lennox Power Station on Lake Ontario Canada, bits of the power station are missed off the picture so as not to reveal the location. Martins relatives have always lived in Ontario and not B.C. and Ontario is a noted carp area , British Colombia isn't'. Selman goes from one million per cent B.C. to one million per cent Lennox Power Station. Amazing, and with no explanation as to how he got the FACTS wrong in the first place.

    Peter, I can tell you that I saw many untouched photos and there were no Mountains or Power Stations in any of them, one hundred per cent (I do believe one million per cent is not possible).
    The fact is that the Carp Society did not like Martin and he didn't like them either so it looks like they stitched him up.
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 08-09-2019 at 17:58. Reason: error in text

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

    Nope, I am not going to be drawn into all this again; read my last post. Goodbye and thanks but no thanks if you know what I mean.

    *Only the photographer, Martin's wife, witnessed the capture of the 50 lber, Mark. I thought this was well-known.

    **...and I'm sure nobody's ever said the photographs were burned.

    Which goes to show how much I remember although I thought there were two witnessess who no one would name and the pictures were burned in a house fire or something but; a lot has happened in my life since then so I expect my memory is not very good.and I don't want to be reminded again and I sure don't want to look it up. There was never any real resolution then and I doubt there will be this time. It's not even a very nice story, hasn't done anyone any good has it, or angling come to that. And I am sorry if thats too negative, but that's the way I feel, why pretend to be other and it's full of negativity anyway, still is, can't reveal this or that, so and so does not want to show thier hand and so on and so on. And I never got into the power station, grass, chain fence, kayaks and all of that, it just deflected from the real truth, if Mr Selman version of events are wrong it still leaves a fish that many will suspect of being caught in Canada and it will still have to be proved beyond all doubt to be accepted as a bone fida fish, something I think Cliff and Eddie fail to see. So, it's going to be same old-my apologies for getting involved again, my fault but I am going back to the real world of solid ground! however, good luck with it.
    Last edited by markg; 09-09-2019 at 04:45.

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