Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

[bennygesserit]

I notice all the other threads are now closed - I wish I could do that when someone disagreed with me on a forum
Especially when its was about the tenth thread I had opened on the same subject

 

[no-one in particular]

I notice all the other threads are now closed - I wish I could do that when someone disagreed with me on a forum
Especially when its was about the tenth thread I had opened on the same subject


Start your own Benny but I wouldn't bother. This one went nowhere, I thought there might at least be a picture of the swim now it's known, something new but it was only another we can prove the Selman camp wrong round 100. And I can't say I have read anything new in that either. For me the bloke went to Canada were there are known 50lb carp in the area he was and came back and produced a picture and an account of his 50lb carp. No witnesses, no reliable weighing, no reliable pictures to look at and no reliable location. And all the excuses has not furthered it all, quite the opposite, the more excuses I read (and I have read an awful lot) the more I think he might of caught it in Canada Still does not mean to say he caught it in Canada just that it's a possibility and will always remain so in the minds of a lot of people.
I think Cliff and Eddie have done more harm to their mate by bringing this to everyone’s attention in the first place, too late now but it would have been forgotten about a long time ago if they had just left it alone. When I first read this thread, I thought great, the water has been discovered; now we might get to the bottom of it, but no chance, whenever you think your getting near the truth in this story, that's the case and that worries me as well.
I have followed this latest episode and it's just been a waste of my time, very disappointed in that. If Cliff or Eddie could title there next thread something like “We have new evidence/proof and we are publishing it” might have a look or "We have new evidence/proof but we are not going to reveal it" that would save quite a few of of us wasting our our time going over it all again who have heard it all before.

 

[eddiebenham]

Also, why not take the opportunity to explain how 13 anglers who saw the untouched pics saw a chain-link fence and a notice board while Monday saw 1) The Rocky Mountains, then, 2, 25 years later, Lennox power station.

Hi Cliff........................I think you mean Selman. Monday stated that he saw a fence and a noticeboard. He never saw any Mountains.

 

[Roto Fryer]

Roto: so do you doubt each and every last angler who has reported a big 'un but hasn't told us where he caught it? What's the difference between Martin Gay saying "I caught this whopper but I'm not saying where" and any other angler saying the same?
If you consider nothing Eddie and I have said for so long as proof of your mate's vivid imagination and jealous streak it doesn't say much about your powers of perception does it? Explain the miracle '25 year conversion' then get back to us please. And while you're at it, explain how MG could have been catching carp in Canada when official records prove he was in Hornchurch, Essex. Also, why not take the opportunity to explain how 13 anglers who saw the untouched pics saw a chain-link fence and a notice board while Monday saw 1) The Rocky Mountains, then, 2, 25 years later, Lennox power station.
Get outa here!

MG's own family state he was in Canada. yet you continue to unsuccessfully in your attempt to muddy the waters by refusing to show the alleged " unedited" photos almost 20 years after the event. you say there is silence from other quarters; this is because they have decided that two stupid old men don't have the bottle to tell the truth or to challenge those that call them "liars" publicly.! surely one does not accept real damage to both of your reputations from all quarters if one can prove the truth.
put up or accept that others have the opinion that you are nothing more than charlatans.

 

[103841]

YouTube

 

[eddiebenham]

If Cliff or Eddie could title there next thread something like “We have new evidence/proof and we are publishing it” might have a look or "We have new evidence/proof but we are not going to reveal it" that would save quite a few of of us wasting our our time going over it all again who have heard it all before

Hi Mark.....................Nice to see you are back and I trust you are well. Cliff and I have repeatedly said that we cannot provide PROOF only evidence, and we have provided a considerable amount of that over the years.
However, others have claimed that they have PROOF that Martin caught the Carp in Canada but to date have not made the said PROOF public.
Why not ? Cliff and I are being pilloried for not providing PROOF (which we don't have) that the Carp were English, yet no-one appears to step forward and ask why the PROOF for Canada has not been shown by those who claim they have it.
Surely, if it was provided, which it never will be because it doesn't exist, then it would settle this issue.
In my opinion the only person who can resolve this matter is Robin Monday who caused the start of a Witch hunt against Martin, when in a letter to Tim Paisley published in Carpworld number 8, March/April 1990 wrote " As far as I can remember, there was a notice board in the background which may have given something away, but the general scenery was not that of an English lake". No mention of Mountains at all.
This was seized upon by Selman who came up with the Canadian Mountain Landscape, which 25 years later became Lennox Power Station.
Martin did not and does not deserve to be remembered as a liar, or as Chris Ball so disgracefully said he should be remembered.
This is a wrong that should be put right.
So again I ask where is this PROOF for Canada ? - Come on Robin Monday, you're out there in the shadows somewhere, let's see it, but we won't will we because there isn't any. Maybe Peter Gibbinson can show us all his PROOF, but I won't be holding my breath on that one either.

 

[eddiebenham]

MG's own family state he was in Canada. yet you continue to unsuccessfully in your attempt to muddy the waters by refusing to show the alleged " unedited" photos almost 20 years after the event. you say there is silence from other quarters; this is because they have decided that two stupid old men don't have the bottle to tell the truth or to challenge those that call them "liars" publicly.! surely one does not accept real damage to both of your reputations from all quarters if one can prove the truth.
put up or accept that others have the opinion that you are nothing more than charlatans.

Hi Roto..................Well, well so you think I'm a stupid old man do you ? Well maybe you're right, but I'm an honest and truthful one as well.
Yes, Martin was in Canada, on a family holiday, not a fishing holiday. He caught the Carp on his return to England.
Cliff and I have repeatedly said that we do not have any photos, if we did we would have shown them years ago.
It would appear that you have access to the PROOF that we are asking for as you say"the silence from other quarters is because they have decided that two stupid old men don't have the bottle to tell the truth". You know that do you, or is it just your own opinion.
That's not a good enough reason Roto to withhold such vital information. Nice bait though !

 

[Cliff Hatton]

MG's own family state he was in Canada. yet you continue to unsuccessfully in your attempt to muddy the waters by refusing to show the alleged " unedited" photos almost 20 years after the event. you say there is silence from other quarters; this is because they have decided that two stupid old men don't have the bottle to tell the truth or to challenge those that call them "liars" publicly.! surely one does not accept real damage to both of your reputations from all quarters if one can prove the truth.
put up or accept that others have the opinion that you are nothing more than charlatans.

It is for reasons such as this nonsense from Rotofryer that threads get closed-down. Comments on articles should, at the very least, be fair and reflect the facts of the matter in hand. Where it is obvious that the poster has given zero thought to his work and has clearly been unable to absorb anything of relevance from a cornucopia of facts, figures, explanations, reports, quotes etc it becomes difficult to ignore those viewers who express both their exasperation and their desire for the issue to be discontinued.



For the record, Roto, to date, I have seen nothing from 'MG's own family' stating that he was in Canada, but there has never been any doubt that Martin has been in Canada! Just about everything we have ever written on this matter acknowledges that Martin has been to Canada.

Throughout, Eddie and I have done nothing to 'muddy the water'. We have been straight and truthful throughout and neither of us would know how to 'muddy the water'. We are decent, honest, educated men. Have you got that, Roto?

Now, Roto...(do you want to write this down?) We cannot 'refuse to show [the photo's]' because we don't have them and never have had them. This is common knowledge that you have failed - somehow! - to take on board.

Regarding the 'silence from other quarters', presumably you're referring to the Carp Society. What did they say when you asked them? What did Chris Ball tell you, Roto? Do you have some quotes? WE have LOTS of quotes from the Carp Society and have published them here: let's see what you've got.

And to polish-off your final remark, Roto, I can assure you that nobody would get away with referring to Eddie and I as 'liars' without being taken to task and proved wrong. We never lie.



Now then, Roto...either apply a modicum of thought to your comments on FM or don't comment at all - please.

 

[no-one in particular]

Hi Mark.....................Nice to see you are back and I trust you are well. Cliff and I have repeatedly said that we cannot provide PROOF only evidence, and we have provided a considerable amount of that over the years.

I am sorry but your evidence is all about the pictures, I cannot remember what was in the background of the last 10 pictures I looked at in the HDYGO thread and that was this morning. So, I have no faith in the memories of either party either way in that respect. How long after was it the 14 looked at the pictures and then say they knew what was in the background, it's just too unreliable as evidence. people remember what they want to remember! You make too much of it, the evidence and/or proof that the carp was caught in England just does not exist or Canada but given all the circumstances surrounding the fish you cannot blame anyone for thinking it was possible, I am sure you would if you were in their shoes.
And a picture of the newfound swim were the carp was caught would have been nice but I guess no one is ever going to see that either. Like everything else in this saga, you get near the truth to support it either way and it never materialises!! I have been waiting for that through the thread but given up on it.

 

[mikench]

Who gives a rats whatsit regardless. This thread makes most of mine a riveting read.

 

[103841]

Who gives a rats whatsit regardless. This thread makes most of mine a riveting read.

If you think this is bad Mike, you should see the amount of tripe they’ve written on other fishing forums about this mythical fish. Infact there is one whole page of ‘Oh yes he did”.....”Oh no he didn’t”, sums it up really.

 

[Another Dave]

‘Oh yes he did”.....”Oh no he didn’t”

"Behind you" (is a mountie riding a moose, better crop that out)

 

[mikench]

If you think this is bad Mike, you should see the amount of tripe they’ve written on other fishing forums about this mythical fish. Infact there is one whole page of ‘Oh yes he did”.....”Oh no he didn’t”, sums it up really.

Well it is nearing Christmas and the pantomime season!

 

[Philip]

we cannot provide PROOF

if it was provided, which it never will be because it doesn't exist, then it would settle this issue

The unedited photos would provide proof and these may still exist.

 

[no-one in particular]

The unedited photos would provide proof and these may still exist.

I don't think they do, they were either burned in a house fire or thrown out. You will never get to the truth of this either way, you can ask away on any aspect of this and you never ever will get any. There will never be any proof, it's a waste of time. It was exhausted in the last round and I believe many before that and on multi forums; all it does is wind people up.
Where's a picture of the swim where the fish was caught in this newfound water for example, why can't that be provided Cliff?

 

[Philip]

Mark, I am not expecting Cliff or Eddie to anwser that because, like the rest of us, they simply dont know.

Who would have burned ALL the photos ? ....Yvonne Gay ? ....would you burn photos of a loved one ? ....add to that a loved one who was a fanatical fisherman ....and add to that he is holding his most prestige capture...and add to that the fact that the photo was in all probability taken by Yvonne her very self.

Would she "dispose of" / "Burn" / "discard" / "chuck away" ...whatever word anyone wants to put on it ...ALL the photos AND the negatives ?

No I simpy dont see it. There is every chance Yvonne Gay has a copy of at least SOME of those photos right now. In addition Yvonne will probably not be aware of the full extent of the bad feeling and how her late husbands name has been dragged through the mud for almost 30 years now.

I think its time someone who knows Yvonne contacts her and shows her all the thread and discussion on all the forums so she fully appreciates what is happening. Then -perhaps- Yvonne will decide enough is enough and either come out with the truth herself or , better, provide the ONLY piece of evidence that really matters - the unedited photos.

Yvonne Gay is the only person left who knows the truth and she should be the one deciding what to do its as simple as that.

 

[no-one in particular]

At least you’re not expecting one Phillip, wise man and Yvonne would have done something a long time ago if she wanted to.
I only remember this vaguely and my memory is bad anyway as I am sure Eddie will confirm but in the old thread I think it was Crow who pursued this and Cliff or Eddie would find out and contact Yvonne. They came back with they had been burned in a house fire or thrown out or something like that. But I am not sure, could be wrong, do you remember that Cliff or Eddie? It's just a vague memory I have of the old thread but I just seem to remember that for some reason.

I would like to get back to the opening of the thread, it’s being overlooked somewhat and is the only really interesting thing as it’s a new aspect. This water Cliff, how deep is it, does it contain a lot of weed, is the water quality clean and can't you take some pictures being careful not to reveal its location of course. It's not far from Redmire you say, any similarities to it?

 

[eddiebenham]

Yvonne Gay is the only person left who knows the truth and she should be the one deciding what to do its as simple as that.

Hi Philip..............................She has.
I think that we covered this some time ago. Yvonne chose not to get involved in all this, and I must say I don't blame her. Would anyone believe anything she said, 'she would say that she was his wife', 'where's the proof then Yvonne'.
She knows something about what has gone on FM and the constant bickering and is not prepared to get involved.
Her view is that if you don't believe Martin caught those fish in the UK so be it.
I can't remember her exact words but she told me that she had disposed of the photos, I don't recall her saying they were burned, and to my knowledge there was not a house fire.Martin showed me hundreds of photos over the years.
There must have been boxes and boxes of photos of Martin with big Pike, Tench, Barbel, and of course Carp.
And of course boxes and boxes of his articles, of which he wrote many, and boxes and boxes of letters regarding fishing.
Probably all had a room to themselves.
Personally, I think that my Wife would not bother to keep photos of me and my big Tench.
The one's she would keep would be of us both arm in arm celebrating our 50th Wedding Anniversary at The Ritz.

 

[bennygesserit]

Martin Gays 48lb Canadian Common | General Carp Angling | Fishingwarehouse Forum. This gives some alternative views

 

[Another Dave]

Martin Gays 48lb Canadian Common | General Carp Angling | Fishingwarehouse Forum. This gives some alternative views

It it me or do they not like putting dates on posts there?