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    Default The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Editor’s preface.

    It is, perhaps, to my and Eddie Benham’s discredit that our determination to exonerate the late Martin Gay from the Carp Society’s ill-judged decree on his unprecedented carp captures has led us a little too far into Paul Selman’s fantasy world…we have indulged him for too long and at a time when the truth about Martin’s 50lb common carp (and half a ton of other big specimens) must surely be dawning on the angling world. Paul Selman knows his game is up; he knows his story is utterly ridiculous and now seeks only to muddy the water further by tossing the occasional nugget of sheer nonsense into the mix. It is nothing less than infantile.

    So let’s let Eddie wrap things up with his direct request to those who lay claim to irrefutable evidence of the fish’s provenance…

    The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!-martins-uk-48lber.jpg

    One of the criticisms levelled at Martin is that he did not mention dates in his first series of articles in 1989, so when he wrote-up his 1990 carp catches he made a point of putting in the dates, one of which was Tuesday 14th of August. I have a copy of the minutes of the Moor Hall & Belhus A.S. and he is recorded as being present at that meeting, so not in Canada. That’s a FACT and this alone stymies Selman’s ‘explanation’.

    The same Committee previously saw the untouched photos of the 50lb common and saw nothing unusual in them. Robin Monday, however (who started all this off) stated, “As far as I can remember, there was a notice board in the background which may have given something away, but the general scenery was not that of an English lake”. Well the rest of us all agree about the notice board but we all thought that the background looked exactly like that of an ordinary English lake! This too is a FACT.

    Then Selman comes onto the scene with this statement of ‘fact. He says “It is a FACT that when Martin caught those fish he was on holiday in British Colombia, Canada” He goes on. “It is my UNDERSTANDING that the part of the picture blocked out did indeed show a Canadian mountain landscape. These CONCLUSIONS were also accepted as FACT by the Carp Society leadership of the time”.

    Unbelievable! They destroyed Martin’s good name and reputation, NOT on any proof but on an UNDERSTANDING.

    He was challenged by Geoff Maynard who said, “Interesting Paul. However, BC is not really a known big carp area to my knowledge”.
    Selman responded with “Geoff, there is fantastic big carp fishing in B.C., one of my friends is a guide there”.

    Then 25 years later when his story was roundly rubbished, Selman came up with a brand new set of ‘FACTS’. In a complete turnaround he told us “The fish were caught from a warm water outlet from Lennox Power Station on Lake Ontario, bits of the power station are missed off so as not to reveal the location” and continues with this little gem: “Martins relatives have always lived in Ontario and not BC and Ontario is a noted carp area, British Columbia isn’t”. What was that he told Geoff Maynard? Didn’t he previously assure us it was a ‘fantastic’ carp-fishing area?

    No one who saw the photos, including Robin Monday, saw either of those contrived scenarios – and that is a FACT.
    Selman has recently claimed that his mates are fishing the actual swim at Lennox power station and “…are doing quite well”.

    Really?



    Here’s a photo of the warm water outlet at Lennox which was sent to me by Terry Brady, the Environmental Advisor at Lennox and whose office actually overlooks the outlet. Terry told me that fishing is strictly banned there and that security-patrols would eject anyone on site without authority. Has everyone got that?

    So Martin was supposed to have free-lined sweetcorn here and Selman’s mates are fishing here and ‘doing well’ apparently. Their camouflage gear must be pretty damn good then!

    Selman also said that Martin should have blocked out the plants in the photos as they were not a species native to the UK. However, I was informed by a biologist at Queen’s University that one plant was “…a common introduced weed in rough soils across Britain” and that the grass was “..a common introduced upland grass across the British Isles”.

    I also consulted four geologists, independently, including a Professor, regarding the pebbles in the photos. They all agreed that the pebbles found at Lennox are of a completely different type to those in the photos. Dr Peter Allen wrote “The Kame Shelf photo has flat rounded disc shaped pebbles – good for my boyhood delight of skimming pebbles on water, whereas the fish photo has angular/ sub angular equant pebbles – useless for skimming. I can say that the beach pebbles on the fish photo are not the same place as those on the Kames photo and that they are different places”.
    Pretty obvious really, but it’s good to get it confirmed by an expert geologist.



    So much for Selmans ‘FACTS’.

    Now, I understand, that Peter Gibbinson has stated he has PROOF that the fish were caught in Canada. According to Tim Paisley in Carpworld, April 1990, Jim Gibbinson wrote a letter to both Coarse Angler and Anglers Mail SUGGESTING the fish had been caught in Canada. Further to that, in Cyprinews, June 1990, Jim wrote “In view of the fact that both Rick and I BELIEVE the fish to have been caught in Canada…” How is it then that Peter Gibbinson says he can provide PROOF when his father, Jim, and his brother, Rick, cannot? Robin Monday has also stated that he can provide PROOF but, to date, he hasn’t done so: Well,why not!

    It’s because he can’t. He doesn’t have any proof. It appears that he is a weak individual who has got caught up with the fabrications regarding Canada which, incidentally, he never even mentioned.

    So come on then Peter Gibbinson and Robin Monday – let us all see your proof, and how about you, Mr Selman? Benny and the rest of us would love to see it.

    But we WON’T because you have none, zilch, nothing at all.

    Eddie Benham.


    Source Article...
    Last edited by Cliff Hatton; 14-10-2019 at 00:27.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Sorry Cliff

    is it 48 or 50 ?
    When you hover over the picture the title of it is martins-uk-48lber.jpg

  3. #3

    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    And so the saga goes on, fuelled again by yet another new thread.

    The irony is this could be brought to a clear end by those in the know publishing the evidence they have, yet are reluctant to publish and instead prolong it by asking the doubters to produce evidence.

    Would it really matter now if the uncensored pictures were shared or the venue named? That fish is unlikely to be still alive so can't follow the argument that it will open up the floodgates of anglers flocking to the lake, wherever it is!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by stevejay View Post
    And so the saga goes on, fuelled again by yet another new thread.

    The irony is this could be brought to a clear end by those in the know publishing the evidence they have, yet are reluctant to publish and instead prolong it by asking the doubters to produce evidence.

    Would it really matter now if the uncensored pictures were shared or the venue named? That fish is unlikely to be still alive so can't follow the argument that it will open up the floodgates of anglers flocking to the lake, wherever it is!
    Hi Stevejay

    Martin went to the Grave swearing never to reveal the real name of the venue and Cliff and I will do the same. We've called it Gaymire and will always think of it as that. We have both fished there by invitation and I was fortunate enough to catch a lovely Mirror. As you rightly point out the fish Martin caught is unlikely to still be alive, but there are likely to be other very big fish which are descendants of those Martin caught. Martin claimed to have seen a Carp which he reckoned was 60 lb so who knows how big they could grow to. The real name of the water will remain undisclosed. By the way I've never been to Canada.
    The doubters claim to have PROOF (different to Evidence) but have failed to disclose it.
    You've read the rubbish spouted by Selman and his 1,000,000 percent BC changed to 1,000,000 percent Ontario.
    Don't tell me that you believe it.
    Look at the what the Botanist and geologists told me.
    It's not Canada in the photos at all . FACT.
    Compare those photos to the warm water outlet photo where Selman says Martin fished and his mates have recently fished, yet according to the Authorities you would be evicted as it's No Fishing and Dangerous.
    So come on Selman, Monday and now Gibbinson - Let's see your PROOF and put this to bed.
    The silence is deafening isn't it ?
    If NO PROOF is forthcoming then I think we can conclude that there is none and everyone should accept that Martin was stitched up by The Carp Society back then, and that therefore his claim that the fish were English should be upheld.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    There's absolutely nothing new here. Nothing is going to change, it's utterly futile. Just a couple of collections of mates with opposing views of a saga of no real significance. Regardless of anything else, Martin's captures came after a verified 51lb 8oz fish, ergo, it was never a record fish anyway. Martin's fish was not weighed properly. For that reason alone, it could never be verified, even if it could have actually been bigger than 51lb 8oz. All the other rubbish is diversionary, and irrelevant, nonsense

    Everything else is just horseplop. A decades old bitching session between two parties of people that should be old enough to know better by now. Exactly where it was caught is irrelevant. Frankly, it's got to the point that I doubt anyone, other than those bitching at each other, could care less.

    The real story is this:- Bloke catches big fish. It was big enough that it might have been a record. Unfortunately, he failed to weigh it properly. He also (entirely reasonably) didn't want to divulge the location of the water.

    His mates believe in him and believe it was a record fish. The Carp Society don't believe. For some bizarre reason, some folks have proposed some wild theories to discredit a tale that didn't actually matter a jot anyway. Almost everyone else has just a passing interest and no more. The end.

    Sadly, it won't be the end, but it really, really, should be.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by bennygesserit View Post
    Sorry Cliff

    is it 48 or 50 ?
    When you hover over the picture the title of it is martins-uk-48lber.jpg
    Fair enough, Benny. It was reported at '48' so, yes, maybe I should stick to that line; but remember, Martin sat next to me on my sofa and told me how the fish bottomed-out a newly-purchased set of 50lb scales. He reckoned there was probably another couple of pounds to go!

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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by sam vimes View Post
    There's absolutely nothing new here. Nothing is going to change, it's utterly futile. Just a couple of collections of mates with opposing views of a saga of no real significance. Regardless of anything else, Martin's captures came after a verified 51lb 8oz fish, ergo, it was never a record fish anyway. Martin's fish was not weighed properly. For that reason alone, it could never be verified, even if it could have actually been bigger than 51lb 8oz. All the other rubbish is diversionary, and irrelevant, nonsense

    Everything else is just horseplop. A decades old bitching session between two parties of people that should be old enough to know better by now. Exactly where it was caught is irrelevant. Frankly, it's got to the point that I doubt anyone, other than those bitching at each other, could care less.

    The real story is this:- Bloke catches big fish. It was big enough that it might have been a record. Unfortunately, he failed to weigh it properly. He also (entirely reasonably) didn't want to divulge the location of the water.

    His mates believe in him and believe it was a record fish. The Carp Society don't believe. For some bizarre reason, some folks have proposed some wild theories to discredit a tale that didn't actually matter a jot anyway. Almost everyone else has just a passing interest and no more. The end.

    Sadly, it won't be the end, but it really, really, should be.
    Thanks, Sam, for taking enough interest in this to post your latest thoughts on the matter, but nobody on 'our' side of the issue - and that includes Martin - has ever focussed on the fish's status as a record-breaker...nobody is or was bothered. Also, Sam (and this is important!) it simply isn't good enough to write that 'For some bizarre reason, some folks have proposed some wild theories to discredit a tale..." That's surely tantamount to your acknowledging the Carp Society's stitch-up.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by stevejay View Post
    And so the saga goes on, fuelled again by yet another new thread.

    The irony is this could be brought to a clear end by those in the know publishing the evidence they have, yet are reluctant to publish and instead prolong it by asking the doubters to produce evidence.

    Would it really matter now if the uncensored pictures were shared or the venue named? That fish is unlikely to be still alive so can't follow the argument that it will open up the floodgates of anglers flocking to the lake, wherever it is!
    Steve! Have you actually read a word, mate?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Hatton View Post
    Thanks, Sam, for taking enough interest in this to post your latest thoughts on the matter, but nobody on 'our' side of the issue - and that includes Martin - has ever focussed on the fish's status as a record-breaker...nobody is or was bothered. Also, Sam (and this is important!) it simply isn't good enough to write that 'For some bizarre reason, some folks have proposed some wild theories to discredit a tale..." That's surely tantamount to your acknowledging the Carp Society's stitch-up.
    Whatever I believe is irrelevant. I have no interest in, or influence on, the Carp Society, or its members, past or present.

    As I said before. The kernel of the story is that a bloke caught a big fish. Some believe the tale, some don't. Most don't really care either way. All this is now is a continuation of a thirty year old fued that should never have started in the first place.

    If this was a gang of ordinary forum members against another bunch of ordinary members, they'd all have been banned years ago. It really is time to let it go. It does no one any good dragging it up every year.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The 50lber – Let’s see the doubters’ ‘proof’!

    Quote Originally Posted by sam vimes View Post
    The kernel of the story is that a bloke caught a big fish. Some believe the tale, some don't.

    If this was a gang of ordinary forum members against another bunch of ordinary members, they'd all have been banned years ago. It really is time to let it go.
    Quoted for truth.

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