Graham Marsden
Editor Emeritus
This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Wintle's Avon Float Trotting Rig
Wintle's Avon Float Trotting Rig
- Thread starter Graham Marsden
- Start date
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
The avon float is probably the most versatile of all the river floats and no river angler worth his salt should neglect its use. Holding back an avon is easy and even the bigger ones of 4 swan plus sink link a stone when a fish, no matter how small, takes the bait leaving you in no doubt about when to strike.
One method of plumbing the depth that I find useful when fishing well out is to add the necessary shot to get the right amount of tip showing then take one of the heavier shot off and squeeze it on the hook. Throw the rig out and if that telltale shot is on the bottom the float will drag under requiring you to shorten up until the float rides all the way through the swim.
Woody (he of the Hereford shop) sells some cracking avon floats covering most depths of river and they are very stable.
Good article Mark, river tactics and gear are something that a lot of anglers neglect these days, it needs someone like you to give them a gentle push in the right direction with articles like this.
One method of plumbing the depth that I find useful when fishing well out is to add the necessary shot to get the right amount of tip showing then take one of the heavier shot off and squeeze it on the hook. Throw the rig out and if that telltale shot is on the bottom the float will drag under requiring you to shorten up until the float rides all the way through the swim.
Woody (he of the Hereford shop) sells some cracking avon floats covering most depths of river and they are very stable.
Good article Mark, river tactics and gear are something that a lot of anglers neglect these days, it needs someone like you to give them a gentle push in the right direction with articles like this.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I give up trying to put links in, it used to be such a simple thing but not now for some reason. http in http out non of them seem to work WHY?
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Links
Graham,
The link you put up that didn't work is:
http://www.fishingmagic.com/404.html?url=http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/www.floatsonline.com/woodys_floats4.php
Using your above link, the link I found that worked is:
www.floatsonline.com/woodys_floats4.php
What I do is put the link in my message and before posting check the preview message. In preview you can click on the link to see if it works or not. In the preview on here if you click on the first part of your link you get the error message but if you click on the second part it links OK.
I think in your above link it is the first part ie. the fishing magic bit that's causing the trouble. If you miss the http. bit off and start at www. the computer automatically puts http. in when it starts to search for the site.
Don't despair keep on trying, remember your an Ace not a Chav.
Graham,
The link you put up that didn't work is:
http://www.fishingmagic.com/404.html?url=http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/www.floatsonline.com/woodys_floats4.php
Using your above link, the link I found that worked is:
www.floatsonline.com/woodys_floats4.php
What I do is put the link in my message and before posting check the preview message. In preview you can click on the link to see if it works or not. In the preview on here if you click on the first part of your link you get the error message but if you click on the second part it links OK.
I think in your above link it is the first part ie. the fishing magic bit that's causing the trouble. If you miss the http. bit off and start at www. the computer automatically puts http. in when it starts to search for the site.
Don't despair keep on trying, remember your an Ace not a Chav.
Graham Marsden
Editor Emeritus
Neil Maidment
Moderator
I have a definate preference for a string of smaller shot to make up the bulk. Even with a 6AAA or 7AAA float I'll create the bulk with AA's at the most and more usually BB's.
Last winter I used two "bulks" and a "dropper" or two to good effect. The higher "bulk" being slightly heavier than the lower.
Last winter I used two "bulks" and a "dropper" or two to good effect. The higher "bulk" being slightly heavier than the lower.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I tried that link firstly by copying the site url and pasting that into the link box as I have always done but it didn't work so I then tried it by starting the url from www. as you told me to before JK and that didn't work either. - At that point I began to worry about my lack of hair so I gave up but point about using preview has been noted, thanks.
but point about using preview has been noted, thanks.
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
Floats like Woody's and Bolognese floats have their place on big rivers like the Wye at Hereford but are too crude for most of my fishing on the Stour and other local waters. That said I can see that using a Bolognese float might work well in one particular swim that is challenging to say the least.
This rig/shotting pattern is intended as a starting point and guide for those less experienced to address a lack of simple float rigs on the site.
This winter I intend trying tungsten olivettes more - it involves matching the weights to the floats beforehand - but I think it will be worth the effort. I think the denser the weight the better the presentation especially when holding back and tin shot aren't that dense.
This rig/shotting pattern is intended as a starting point and guide for those less experienced to address a lack of simple float rigs on the site.
This winter I intend trying tungsten olivettes more - it involves matching the weights to the floats beforehand - but I think it will be worth the effort. I think the denser the weight the better the presentation especially when holding back and tin shot aren't that dense.
Mark,
We used to fish a similar rig, back in the late 90's in Norway on the Glommar and Akerselva especially in the late autumn when the rivers were running fast and yet still very deep.
You can hold back really hard with a more dense olivette as you say.
It seems that the 'Bolognese' style didn't last too long in England, but again in Norway, we used it a lot on deep swims, and very effective it was too.
By the way, we both know an exceptionally good float angler who uses olivette rigs as opposed to split shot . . . . . .
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I don't think the likes of Woody, Hadrian Whittle, Dave Harrel etc would agree with the crude bit Mark but remember they aren't all deep swims in the town water and those floats still work brilliantly in them but in the lighter bracket of course. You are right in that the floats were initially designed for the Wye but they will fish well on all rivers, in fact the full range of his floats are as good as anything I have ever seen including the sticks.
I read an article recently in Matchfishing by Hadrian Whittle (one of the best river anglers in the country) where he used one of those avons in 6ft of flood water on the Wye championships and weighed in 21lb of roach, he said no other float would have achieved the presentation that the avon gave him to catch roach in those conditions.
Interestingly he gives his shotting pattern for using the avon and in nearly all cases he uses an olivette rather than a string of bulk shot and only his droppers underneath but as you say you have to use the right olivette to achieve this. Some say a large olivette hampers the strike unlike a string of AA's or BB's which are more streamlined but I guess its what you have confidence in isn't it? Most of his float rigs are stored on winders for ease of change in a match.
I read an article recently in Matchfishing by Hadrian Whittle (one of the best river anglers in the country) where he used one of those avons in 6ft of flood water on the Wye championships and weighed in 21lb of roach, he said no other float would have achieved the presentation that the avon gave him to catch roach in those conditions.
Interestingly he gives his shotting pattern for using the avon and in nearly all cases he uses an olivette rather than a string of bulk shot and only his droppers underneath but as you say you have to use the right olivette to achieve this. Some say a large olivette hampers the strike unlike a string of AA's or BB's which are more streamlined but I guess its what you have confidence in isn't it? Most of his float rigs are stored on winders for ease of change in a match.
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Some of the Scandinavian and French anglers tended to lean towards that school of thought too Graham.
They overcame the perceived problem by using those tungsten tube weights that you cut to size from long lengths. I've still got some of that stuff somewhere in the garage methinks.
MarkTheSpark
Senior Member
The tungsten tubing was by Sandvik, and I have some. It's amazing stuff - they should make it again for the carp boys for such tasks as backleads and hooklink weighting - easy to secure, move and adjust. I would buy more if I could, and it makes really good stick float weights.
I think I am right in saying that the tall, slender tops of crowquill Avons like the old Topper Haskins floats aid bite detection because you can see when the float tilts, when the bait is taken. And they are, of course, more sensitive than Chubbers.
I'm with some others in favouring shirt-button shotting but the rig Mark describes is excellent for 'anchoring' a trotted bait along one line - it's less affected by holding back, which will make a shirt-button shotted rig swing across the current
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Regarding the bulk I can see no reason why two or three small shot with Kryston heavy metal extra wrapped round them shouldn't work, it can be shaped to suit and easily added or pinched off to prime the float. This would do away with the need to buy different olivettes for each float.
Old Nick
Well-known member
Another interesting article Mark, which has got me thinking about my shotting patterns and what I am trying to achieve.
I usually fish this method on rivers, and put all of my bulk shot about half way down the line between float and hook, with no dropper shot. However I have just been reading that the bulk should be between 18 inches to two feet above the hook to help slow the movement of the bait through the swim.
How far from the hook would you generally put the bulk? is the placing of the shot just about the speed of moving the bait through the swim or does it have other effects such as making the presentation more natural?
I usually fish this method on rivers, and put all of my bulk shot about half way down the line between float and hook, with no dropper shot. However I have just been reading that the bulk should be between 18 inches to two feet above the hook to help slow the movement of the bait through the swim.
How far from the hook would you generally put the bulk? is the placing of the shot just about the speed of moving the bait through the swim or does it have other effects such as making the presentation more natural?
chavender
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great article mark ,i do tend too favour the bulk shotting pattern ,i`ve tried olivettes as alternative too a long line of aaa`s but they can be bulky on the line ,so as a alternative ,whilst in one of my local tackle shops i did spy something very nice on the pike racks .
Fox quick change Pop up weights ! in 2 ,3 ,4 swan weights (and in smaller sizes in the carp section) its easy too change the loading of floats if i swap a float over too a bigger or smaller one .or move them up or down the line
Fox quick change Pop up weights ! in 2 ,3 ,4 swan weights (and in smaller sizes in the carp section) its easy too change the loading of floats if i swap a float over too a bigger or smaller one .or move them up or down the line
Steve Spiller
Well-known member
Interesting stuff Mark.
Not a trick question, but who invented/designed the Crowquill Avon? Was it Merv 'Topper' Haskins? I've been lucky enough to sit behind him and watch him work it, brilliant angler!
I wish FM had a 'drawing' option, I know you don't like the way I fish the crowquill, it would be so much easier to explain and ask questions if I could draw it....
Not a trick question, but who invented/designed the Crowquill Avon? Was it Merv 'Topper' Haskins? I've been lucky enough to sit behind him and watch him work it, brilliant angler!
I wish FM had a 'drawing' option, I know you don't like the way I fish the crowquill, it would be so much easier to explain and ask questions if I could draw it....
chavender
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mark will confirm merv invented the crowquill avon ,there was cork on cane floats about ,a bit bulky and possibly less sensative
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
I think that Merv Haskins developed the crowquill Avon rather than invented it. The Avon is supposedly named after the Warwickshire Avon and developed from cork on quill floats. What Topper did was make the float using balsa and combine it with using breadpunch (from the Lancashire canal anglers) to develop a style of his own for the Bristol Avon. Later he substituted styrofoam for the balsa. It was a case of the usual beg, borrow and steal ideas to bring them together into an effective method.
MarkTheSpark
Senior Member
Merv's were a slightly different shape from the trad. Avons, too. A longer body by proportion.