3 tonns of bait, a tow rope and a spare 3 months

[Mark Hodson]

I agree entirely that the growing trend among wannabe specimen anglers to pile in a small island of bait then fish over it with carp gear in order to catch anything that swims then proclaim themselves as the reincarnation of Izaak Walton when they do catch a half decent fish is very worrying.
Even more worrying is the belief of many new to the sport that this is the right way to do things and represents the true ethos of our glorious past-time.
The true test of any angler is how they perform in the difficult winter months when watercraft, fine tackle and true angling talent and skill come to the fore. With the coming of the first frost the catch anything that swims on carp tackle club will often be found in the boozer telling tall tales of two pound river roach and twenty pound pike
that they caught on saturday whilst they were at the football !!
Those who match their tactics and tackle to the targeted species are inevitably more successfull in the long run and are still catching good fish and enjoying their fishing when the catch anything swims on carp gear club have turned their two brain cells attention to the local golf course.

 

[Baz]

There are anglers who will convince themselves that what they are doing is right, because it catches them fish. Hit and haul tactics being the norm, with no idea of playing a good fish.
And even less idea of using balanced tackle. Take the bolt rigs off them and they will be lost.

 

[Frothey]

funny, ron recommends dragging the fish in, reckons you shouldnt play the fish for more than a couple of minutes........

 

[Big Rik]

take away the bolt rig baz, that's the idea.
Any float over 3AAA, any looped feeder rig, any kind of tip fishing with a quiver.
They are all bolt rigs, they all cause the hook to prick.

I think you are missing Marks point about the trend towards heavier gear.

With fish being bigger and lakes and rivers being generally weedier (over use of nutrients on farmland) then there is a need for heavier gear.
Barbel fishing with 2.6 line would be massively irresponsible.
Mark intimates that heavier gear means less angling skill on playing fish, you are equating that to an inability to find or get fish to feed.

If the anglers using this gear are that inadequate, then they wouldn't be hooking any fish anyway.

Are you all just bandwagon jumping to agree with the article and not even thinking about your arguments?

 

[jason fisher]

I think this phenomenon is caused by the pole, the match men were the people who would in the past mainly have fished the fine tackle you describe,
now match men don't know how to cast, most in general would get confused if you put a real in their hand wondering how you shipped the line out with such a short rod.

the press are then only printing articles with people fishing for specimen fish with rod and reel, the result being the new comers to the sport think this is required tackle not exceptional tackle.

maybe the press should print a few article about people who fish with proper match style tackle in stead of pole pole pole pole pole, then the newcomers would see that it's not necessary to use 5 grands worth of carbon or some thing which could quite happily land the QE2 to catch decent fish.

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

If you pile a load of bait in and then chuck a heavy rig on top so that you can haull in anything stupid enough to pickup your bait you will eventually catch.

If you fish as subtle a setup as you can, with the right hookbait, on the right rig, over the right groundbait, in the right quantities, in the right place, at the right time.

In hindsight and from an armchair most fishing is easy. With foresight and by actually getting out there it can be very fruitful.

My attitude to the tackle i use is that i try and find the optimal balance between strength and presentation. In other words I go for the setup that will put the most fish on the bank. Sometimes that means fishing fine and sometimes it means going heavy. If i simply used hauling gear I'd catch a lot less fish.

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

Sorry that second sentance should have ended "you will catch a lot more."

 

[Nick Austin 2]

I disagree with some of these comments.

Iv'e just progressed from using a light feeder rod to "proper" carp rods (for CARP fishing!), and I think there is still a degree of skill required, in fact, using gera that might be a bit on the heavy side can be quiet difficult, bumping fish for one thing is more probable...

Secondly, filling the bait in is not a sure fire way to catch fish, sometimes a bed of bait will send the fish dashing off up the other end!, only to return later when said angler is tucked up with his horlicks!

 

[Baz]

Maybe I didn't read the article properly, what I saw was piling bait in and fishing heavier tackle. I am only talking rivers here, and all to often people are comeing on after the river rats (barbel) fishing carp style bolt rigs, before they have even tried anything else.

I've just got back from a short session on the river. size 12 hook to 6lb line. and 1 quiver tipped rod.
I decided on no freebies to see if I could catch the bigger chub out by using a single hookbait and nothing else.
Result 1 barbel 4 chub. All fish were played off the clutch incase they made that sudden dash for freedom, which they did.
I am not saying my way is the best, but heavy gear and tons of food is just not needed.

 

[Big Rik]

not needed in your situation Baz, but I wouldn't fancy my chances of trying to land a barbel out of Throop at the moment on 6lb line.
I doubt if I'd get my lead back with 6lb line at the moment with the weed as thick as it is.

Ever fished the Dove?

Read the diary piece that Graham wrote about my rod being bent in a circle to the butt.

20lb braid and a 2lb tc 11' "carp" rod and I barely stopped the barbel from reaching the far bank snag.

As usual it's horses for courses.
Graham wouldn't fish with 1 3/4's and 10lb line as he thinks it too light.
If Graham thinks that about his local river, who am I to argue?

Generalisations about people who use heavy gear and carp tactics being less capable as anglers does nothing other than further divide differing diciplines and styles as well as alienating anglers who enjoy the fruits of those styles.

At the end of the day, we are there to catch fish, we may well enjoy smelling the roses along the way, but if I can employ a tactic that will stand me a better than average chance of hooking and landing a fish, then I am going to take advantage of that.

If it means, bolt rigs and heavy lines, then so be it.
It's the same if it means 1lb bottoms and the pole.


Why do we feel the need to deride people who gain enjoyment from their chosen pastime?

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Well said Rik. If it dows not interfere with your fishing what goes it matter what discipline there from.

 

[Baz]

I'm not deriding any half decent angler, The place I fished didn't need anything more than 6lb line, and I was only fishing that breaking strain because there were barbel about.(nothing massive) The line coupled with the rod were adequate for the size of barbel that I may have caught. If I was elsewhere where there were no barbel I would have used 4lb line.

Some of the people I see I wouldn't class as anglers at all, these are the ones I am getting at. The chancers and the scallys.
The dedicated followers of fashion. Two rods, bolt rigged,heavy line/light line, anything will do.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Rik, you've got it just about right, live and let live eh!

It never ceases to amaze me how quick people are to sneer at others attempts to catch fish. They look at a novice (which is what most of these people are) and instead of offering advice in a friendly way, they prefer to criticise and deride them. Most of them will learn eventually and those that don't will give it up.

Theres no such being as an instant angler, it takes years to become a profficient angler, gained through practice, learning off other anglers and learning from ones mistakes. A bit of advice costs nothing and it takes very little time to give, rewarding to both parties too

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

It seems these arguments as to the proper "style" of fishing crop up time & time again.

It strikes me that this is because for many angling is still more of an art than a science. There will always be tensions therefore between those to whom how one fishes is paramount & those for whom the end result justifies the means. I suspect these tensions are visible in any sport with long histories;golf & cricket spring to my mind.Witness the arguments over long handled putters & big-headed rackets.I welcome such arguments.Any sport which develops technically, as all sports must, but without regard to its traditions,will be much poorer as a result.


River angling seems the current battleground as this is where traditonal methods are still the most employed although seemigly even here in decline.

I think that this more because of the decline in river match fishing due to the rise of commercials than anything else.After all a good proportion of the great river anglers,especially float experts, have come from a match fishing background.Its interesting that it seems to be the specialists who are turning back to the more traditional methods,witness the renaissance of the centre-pin.

The key question is whether the views of the one group should be imposed on others with a different approach.

Clearly to proscribe one from of fishing in favour of another would be wrong but where for example, mass baiting with boilies has a detrimental impact on a stretch of river affecting catches for all then is there not a justification for rules to prevent it? Bivvying up preventing roving from swim to swim might be another example.Stopping bolt-rigging,even if it could be defined in a meaningful sense as Rik points out, is much harder to argue for.

Its not as simple though in my book as saying each to their own, although I think its wrong to put limits on a method simply as its percieved as less skillful.We are just emerging from decades of anti-coarse fishing prejudice from game anglers after all, so we should be wary of imposing our own fishing apartheid.

Sorry for straying in to more general areas.

 

[Streamline]

Too true, we should adopt the 'live and let live' attitude. Being a match angler i take offence to Jasons comments above. There are plenty of match anglers who can cast using a rod and reel. Just because the majority of our fishing is conducted using a pole does not mean that we can not cast.

You could apply the same to all aspects of our sport, could a specimen angler catch a 2oz roach from a gin clear canal?, who knows?

While Mark states that tackle is getting heavier by the year, this is certainly true, I now see carp anglers fishing a pit locally to me with 3lb test curve rods and 3-4oz leads because it is 'the norm'. Why would they do this when I can chuck a feeder from one bank to the other? because they can is the answer.

All angers follow trends, it just happens that the current trend is to have heavy rods and large reels and chuck it as far as you can.

Match anglers are no different, why fish at 16m+, because we can!!.

So really my answer to all of the questions raised here is basically ... why?, because we can.

 

[Colin North 2]

A load of cobblers. Just go fishing and enjoy yourselves. Don't worry what the geezer in the next swim is doing, 'cos thats his business. If he wants to ruin his swim,let him.

 

[Frothey]

"could a specimen angler catch a 2oz roach from a gin clear canal?"

why would he want to

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Soprry Colin, I dont agree.

Its his business if what he is doing doesn't affect you,other anglers on the stretch or the name of the sport in general.

Fishing with heavy tackle probably doesn't in most cases fall into the above but what about the examples in my first post;mass baiting or bivvying up on rivers for long periods?

 

[jason fisher]

i've got one on lads.
streamline i knew i'd get some one with that comment,
i do actually own a pole and do use it even on certain parts of rivers if the tackle and tactics are apropriate to the situation you face use em.
that's why you will at times find me using my pole for 2oz roach on the thames one day and 3lb test curve rods for big pike another.

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Sorry Colin, I dont agree.

Its his business if what he is doing doesn't affect you,other anglers on the stretch or the name of the sport in general.If it does, then its not his business anymore & the angling community has a right to speak up.

I agree that fishing with heavy tackle probably doesn't in most cases fall into the above but what about the examples in my first post;mass baiting or bivvying up on rivers for long periods?