Angling America
- Thread starter GrahamM
- Start date
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Stewart Bloor
Guest
Don't want to sound like I'm pouring cold water etc but i just don't think it would work here. (Would love to be proved wrong though...)It may have worked here a generation ago when dads took sons fishing, and the summer holidays meant lots of angling trips for school kids.
The cultural differences and public perception of angling is different in the UK and USA. There is of course, a commercial aspect to what WM are doing. It will work in the US.
Also, as the item points out, WM have 2,600 stores. They are brand leaders, good public image and so on. They can saturate the market with this project.
It may work here on a regional scale, but we don't have tackle dealers that have national exposure and coverage in the same way that WM do. And remember of course, that WM are not tackle dealers but sell everything in big mega hyper markets. Tackle is just a small percentage of what they sell.
The cultural differences and public perception of angling is different in the UK and USA. There is of course, a commercial aspect to what WM are doing. It will work in the US.
Also, as the item points out, WM have 2,600 stores. They are brand leaders, good public image and so on. They can saturate the market with this project.
It may work here on a regional scale, but we don't have tackle dealers that have national exposure and coverage in the same way that WM do. And remember of course, that WM are not tackle dealers but sell everything in big mega hyper markets. Tackle is just a small percentage of what they sell.
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Ron Clay
Guest
Stewart, How do you see the public perception of angling being different in the USA?
I don't think this would work here because there is less disposable wealth in the UK amongst other things. In the USA they still talk about husbands, wives and family units. Here they talk about "partners" etc.
I don't think this would work here because there is less disposable wealth in the UK amongst other things. In the USA they still talk about husbands, wives and family units. Here they talk about "partners" etc.
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Stewart Bloor
Guest
Ron, I think the cultural differences between the UK and the USA are reflected in how angling is perceived by the general public. In the USA it is perfectly acceptable for Ministers to shoot, hunt and fish. I've got friends that do that, one has deer heads all over his walls. If I did that here (not that I'm against it, by the way), the way that many people would view me would change. In the eyes of many, I'd be consideredc cruel and not a 'proper Christian'.
Whilst the general Britsih public is not anti-angling, they're probably not pro-angling either. More likely, somewhere in between. If we want to do what we do, then all the best to us. It would be true to say, that in the USA, there is, in the minds of the general public, a more positive attitude to angling (and shooting, hunting etc).
Whilst the general Britsih public is not anti-angling, they're probably not pro-angling either. More likely, somewhere in between. If we want to do what we do, then all the best to us. It would be true to say, that in the USA, there is, in the minds of the general public, a more positive attitude to angling (and shooting, hunting etc).
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Kevan Farmer
Guest
Good for America and Wal-Mart I say. Yes of course it's blatent commercialism but it does serve to put angling right into the public eye. We should have it over here, can you imagine your local Asda with big plastic swimming pools set up in the car park? Kids casting to targets. Come on, even if they have never thought about angling before it's got to be a start. Might be an idea to contact Asda to see if they would run this sort of event - remember Wal-Mart took over Asda not long ago. I reckon it would be the ideal platform to show the general public just what angling is all about. Local clubs could easily put displays up showing the conservation side of angling. Yes, definitely a good idea.
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Ron Clay
Guest
In countries like America, New Zealand, Australia and to a certain extent South Africa, there still exists that "Frontier" mentality. Shooting and fishing are part of those countries way of life.
Many of the White Afrikaans speakers (Boers) of South and Southern Africa still beleive in the concept of the Bible on one hand and a rifle in the other. "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" as it were.
You find many communities in the USA with the same philosophy, and far from seeming bad, they have in my own experience been some of the most hospitable and friendly people in the world. But don't interfere with their way of life. From being the greatest of friends they will become your most deadly enemy.
Many of the White Afrikaans speakers (Boers) of South and Southern Africa still beleive in the concept of the Bible on one hand and a rifle in the other. "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" as it were.
You find many communities in the USA with the same philosophy, and far from seeming bad, they have in my own experience been some of the most hospitable and friendly people in the world. But don't interfere with their way of life. From being the greatest of friends they will become your most deadly enemy.
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Stewart Bloor
Guest
Ron, I can understand your sentiments about the USA, for example. But if people can go from being the greatest of friends to your most deadly enemy - were they your friends in the first place?
You mentioned in another thread how when you returned back to the UK you were verbally threatened by some Brummies because you were, as they thought, in their peg. It's just as well you didn't go to live in the redneck part of the USA, you'd probably have had a gun or crossbow aimed at you instead of a few insults....and no, I'm not anti-USA....
You mentioned in another thread how when you returned back to the UK you were verbally threatened by some Brummies because you were, as they thought, in their peg. It's just as well you didn't go to live in the redneck part of the USA, you'd probably have had a gun or crossbow aimed at you instead of a few insults....and no, I'm not anti-USA....
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Ron Clay
Guest
You have a point Stewart,
I have on many occasions stayed as a guest on farms in the Free State and Northern Provinces of South Africa - The heartlands of Boer Nationalism. I do speak from personal experience.
If you really wish to insult an ultra right wing Afrikaner, you criticise his religion, way of life and language.
You will get short shrift indeed!!
On the other hand I have met many Afrikaners who have been the epitome of liberalism. Some of the greatest anti-apartheid fighters have been white Afrikaans speaking people.
I have on many occasions stayed as a guest on farms in the Free State and Northern Provinces of South Africa - The heartlands of Boer Nationalism. I do speak from personal experience.
If you really wish to insult an ultra right wing Afrikaner, you criticise his religion, way of life and language.
You will get short shrift indeed!!
On the other hand I have met many Afrikaners who have been the epitome of liberalism. Some of the greatest anti-apartheid fighters have been white Afrikaans speaking people.
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
I am a little confused here....Wal-Mart took over ASDA...correct....and that is why my local ASDA has its shelves stocked full of fishing gear!!!..Well..bait..anyway 
)
What happened to Woolworths stocking tackle. My first closed face reel came from Wollworths and i used to pick up wee lures and hooks from there all the time.
)What happened to Woolworths stocking tackle. My first closed face reel came from Wollworths and i used to pick up wee lures and hooks from there all the time.
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steve watson
Guest
you do all realise Walmart have put a lot of local businesses against the wall.Tackle dealers,clothes shops etc ,Downtowns dont exist any more because of the Walmarts etc.They have even started selling drugs now with there own chemists.People just cant compete with the cut price goods ,maybe from sweatshops?Fishing gears ok but not brilliant.On the other hand all the people that became unemployed from the competition can now be employed by walmart.
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
Or go fishing )
)
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Davy North
Guest
ASDA sell loads of bait. Bread, cheese, sweetcorn, etc etc.
What was the brand name of Woolworths fishing tackle? was it Winfield or something like that?
I used to pester my dad (a non angler at the time) to buy me a fishing rod every time we went past the fishing section in Woolies. It must have been in the blood.
In the end he gave in, and one for himself. The start of something wonderful.
Good old Woolies, and Jack Hargreaves for the inspiration.
What was the brand name of Woolworths fishing tackle? was it Winfield or something like that?
I used to pester my dad (a non angler at the time) to buy me a fishing rod every time we went past the fishing section in Woolies. It must have been in the blood.
In the end he gave in, and one for himself. The start of something wonderful.
Good old Woolies, and Jack Hargreaves for the inspiration.
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Kevan Farmer
Guest
I still have a Woolworths International boat multiplier. It is still going strong even now after about 26 or 27 years. I remember their coarse brand was Spinfisher. They actually sold a fantastic little spinning reel with more bearings than some of Shimano's reels of today. My mate had one and it was seriously smooth. In fact if I happened to see one at a car boot sale I'd snap it up. Of course they also sold some crap stuff which is always what people remember the most. Anybody remember Newark Needle floats? I bought my set from Woolies.
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Stewart Bloor
Guest
I still have fond memories of visiting the angling section of Woolworth's in Wolverhampton and spending time in the angling 'section'
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gary magee
Guest
Its alright saying let get as many kids fishing as possible.but if It was a major success I bet there would be a thread not far behind complaining about kids hogging swims and making too much noise.If we want kids to learn to fish we should take a personal interest not rely on some multi national with its own agenda to take the lead.So next time a kid asks you to spare some maggots spare them some,If he/she is fishing in your favourite swim don`t moan show him how to fish it.Kids can be distruptive buts thats only because they are catching nothing once they start catching they will soon shut up.
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Davy North
Guest
I remeber getting a set of needle floats fee with the Angling Times years & years ago. It was probably the only way they could get rid of them. That's the floats not the AT, then again?
Did anyone ever use them?????
Did anyone ever use them?????
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Davy North
Guest
I'm not normally a fan of American culture, when it comes to fast food, and multi screen "have a nice day" cinema's. In fact I joke to the kid's when I get ropped into a Big Mac, that when the revolution comes there'll only be traditional English fast food shops, like pizza's, and Kebab's.
However when it comes to angling, or more to the point their attitude towards it, they may well have something to teach us.
I've never been to the USA or Oz, so anything I know comes from either reading or the telly, but here are a few of my observations, you may like to comment on.
First of all I think Ron is right in saying there is a different attitude to the outdoors in these countries, perhaps as he says a more frontier type spirit. Then again they do have more outdoors to enjoy. Although there does seem to be a more informal attitude towards fishing, it just seems to be something people do, almost as a matter of course, a natural thing to do.
In this country we seem to be more formal "I am an angler" as if it is set aside from the rest of our lives.
In this country we don't seem to encourage the casual angler. We recognize the need to bring new blood into the sport, and to bring on the young, many people do a fine job doing so. However in the angling press we still seem obsessed with the biggest, the most, the greatest. It must be intimidating to the newcomer who at first may find it hard to get a bite. In fact even though I've been fishing for thirty years if someone asks me for example what's my biggest chub, I'd hand my head and mutter 3lb 12oz, because I know from the angling press people are beating off 6 pounders with sticks. Of course it's cobblers, but if it can effect me just think how inadequate a new comer will feel.
Another thing that springs to mind is the availablity of fishing in this country, and the styles. I don't know how they go no in the US, but I would bet there is more free fishing to be had, an obvious statment due to the size of the place maybe, but still an important one. We do have free fishing in this country, but if we're honest, by and large these are the waters clubs don't want. Our commercial fisheries, if you like them or not have done a good job keeping people fishing. Even so speaking to a couple who had just started fishing they can still be off putting to the newcomer, simply because they are fightened that they may look as if they don't know what they're doing. Again probably not true, and other anglers will help, but it's the old image thing again.
As for styles of fishing, again in the US & Oz it would be a fair bet most of the fishing is done with lures. This is more convenient, not having to buy and look after bait, it's also cleaner, and more spur of the moment. Lure fishing is growing in this country, but it is still a branch of the sport. In the US if you mention fishing it will probably be lures that first spring to mind.
Lastly for now because I could go on, is the thing that really bugs me about fishing in this country, and that's the demarcation between branches of angling. I don't know how this came about, but I'm lead to believe from what I've read, it's not always been this way. Not having been to the countries mentioned I couldn't say for sure, but I'd guess it's no where near as bad. Fishing will be fishing.
Like I said just a few points, and I've gone on too long, but if these differences are cultural they will be very difficult to change.
However when it comes to angling, or more to the point their attitude towards it, they may well have something to teach us.
I've never been to the USA or Oz, so anything I know comes from either reading or the telly, but here are a few of my observations, you may like to comment on.
First of all I think Ron is right in saying there is a different attitude to the outdoors in these countries, perhaps as he says a more frontier type spirit. Then again they do have more outdoors to enjoy. Although there does seem to be a more informal attitude towards fishing, it just seems to be something people do, almost as a matter of course, a natural thing to do.
In this country we seem to be more formal "I am an angler" as if it is set aside from the rest of our lives.
In this country we don't seem to encourage the casual angler. We recognize the need to bring new blood into the sport, and to bring on the young, many people do a fine job doing so. However in the angling press we still seem obsessed with the biggest, the most, the greatest. It must be intimidating to the newcomer who at first may find it hard to get a bite. In fact even though I've been fishing for thirty years if someone asks me for example what's my biggest chub, I'd hand my head and mutter 3lb 12oz, because I know from the angling press people are beating off 6 pounders with sticks. Of course it's cobblers, but if it can effect me just think how inadequate a new comer will feel.
Another thing that springs to mind is the availablity of fishing in this country, and the styles. I don't know how they go no in the US, but I would bet there is more free fishing to be had, an obvious statment due to the size of the place maybe, but still an important one. We do have free fishing in this country, but if we're honest, by and large these are the waters clubs don't want. Our commercial fisheries, if you like them or not have done a good job keeping people fishing. Even so speaking to a couple who had just started fishing they can still be off putting to the newcomer, simply because they are fightened that they may look as if they don't know what they're doing. Again probably not true, and other anglers will help, but it's the old image thing again.
As for styles of fishing, again in the US & Oz it would be a fair bet most of the fishing is done with lures. This is more convenient, not having to buy and look after bait, it's also cleaner, and more spur of the moment. Lure fishing is growing in this country, but it is still a branch of the sport. In the US if you mention fishing it will probably be lures that first spring to mind.
Lastly for now because I could go on, is the thing that really bugs me about fishing in this country, and that's the demarcation between branches of angling. I don't know how this came about, but I'm lead to believe from what I've read, it's not always been this way. Not having been to the countries mentioned I couldn't say for sure, but I'd guess it's no where near as bad. Fishing will be fishing.
Like I said just a few points, and I've gone on too long, but if these differences are cultural they will be very difficult to change.
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Kevan Farmer
Guest
In Oz there is definitely a demarcation; or so I found. It's between sea and coarse anglers. The difference is there because Australians fish to eat more than they fish for the sport of it. This leads to a why bother fishing in rivers, lakes etc attitude. Mind you, there is not as much freshwater as you'd think anyway.
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Davy North
Guest
Thanks Kevan, the eating the catch was something I missed out of my ramble. Which is one of the reasons in this country you get more casual sea anglers. That and there's no licence needed.
It's a funny thing this publics view of fishing. The anti's say we're cruel, and if the public only knew the truth it would be banned. But how many times even when coarse fishing do you get people asking you why you don't eat the fish?
It's a funny thing this publics view of fishing. The anti's say we're cruel, and if the public only knew the truth it would be banned. But how many times even when coarse fishing do you get people asking you why you don't eat the fish?
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David Will
Guest
The first question I get is " did you throw them back " followed by a quizzical look as if to indicate that the questioner thinks I am mad when I reply that I did put them back.
I remember trying to justify to a Scotsman why I had used a fish to catch a fish (Piking).He simply could not understand what was going on.In many ways i suspect his attitude would be that of an American or Aussie.
I actually believe that if we fished for the pot coarse angling would have more credence , it is the returning and re catching that confuses the non angler.I am not suggesting we do fish for the pot but maybe more positive images of Coarse Angling are needed. Passion for Angling opened a lot of non anglers eyes.
I remember trying to justify to a Scotsman why I had used a fish to catch a fish (Piking).He simply could not understand what was going on.In many ways i suspect his attitude would be that of an American or Aussie.
I actually believe that if we fished for the pot coarse angling would have more credence , it is the returning and re catching that confuses the non angler.I am not suggesting we do fish for the pot but maybe more positive images of Coarse Angling are needed. Passion for Angling opened a lot of non anglers eyes.