The Chattering Classes
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R
Ron Troversial Clay
Guest
Some time ago I was invited to give an after dinner speech on fishing at a local Rotary Club meeting.
There was not one angler present but at the end of it a number of the people who were present came up and congratulated me on my little speech and said I had thrown an entirely new light on what many of them had thought was a cruel sport.
Fortunately most of the MPs, mainly labour in this area are pro-angling. The Libs Dems are anti-angling to a man (or woman) and that tells you a story doesn't it?
There was not one angler present but at the end of it a number of the people who were present came up and congratulated me on my little speech and said I had thrown an entirely new light on what many of them had thought was a cruel sport.
Fortunately most of the MPs, mainly labour in this area are pro-angling. The Libs Dems are anti-angling to a man (or woman) and that tells you a story doesn't it?
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Ron, you continue slating the Lib-Dems as being anti-angling and yet no national policy of theirs is directed against us.
What I believe is a problem in the Lib-Dems is that a lot of members who would be Greens (possibly Friends Of The Earth activists), have realised that they will get nowhere and so have joined the Lib -Dems as being the closest to their beliefs. Or the easiest to target with their misguided chatter, as Barrie says. Most of the propaganda is not formed at or on political platforms or meetings, but at the buffet celebrations afterwards.
Give your average political activists, be he Labour, Tory, Lib, or even UKIP, a few glasses of wine and a plate of vol-au-vents and he'll gladly listen to endless claptrap. He can't eat because his other hand holds the glass of wine, so all he can do is drink and get plastered. In the morning he remembers only those brain-washing elements from the previous evenings converstaion and spreads it liberally at future meetings.
As they say "Throw enough s**t and some of it will stick".
What I believe is a problem in the Lib-Dems is that a lot of members who would be Greens (possibly Friends Of The Earth activists), have realised that they will get nowhere and so have joined the Lib -Dems as being the closest to their beliefs. Or the easiest to target with their misguided chatter, as Barrie says. Most of the propaganda is not formed at or on political platforms or meetings, but at the buffet celebrations afterwards.
Give your average political activists, be he Labour, Tory, Lib, or even UKIP, a few glasses of wine and a plate of vol-au-vents and he'll gladly listen to endless claptrap. He can't eat because his other hand holds the glass of wine, so all he can do is drink and get plastered. In the morning he remembers only those brain-washing elements from the previous evenings converstaion and spreads it liberally at future meetings.
As they say "Throw enough s**t and some of it will stick".
R
Ron Troversial Clay
Guest
OK Jeff but I would like to hear what they say officially about angling.
All the investigations I have done in this area seem to point out the Lib Dems as being the biggest anti-anything party of the lot. They are not very liberal, nor are they very democratic.
All the investigations I have done in this area seem to point out the Lib Dems as being the biggest anti-anything party of the lot. They are not very liberal, nor are they very democratic.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Totally agree with Barrie about the BBC in particular. Their presenters must number among the most ill-informed and biased people in the land. That in itself isn't much of a problem but the fact that millions of people listen to them and think they their word is gospel, is a major problem, especially for anglers.
I still hear, on a regular basis, on BBC, how swans are killed by anglers lead shot and you can't tell me they don't know the truth of it. The question is often raised "is angling cruel" but they seem to make it a statement not a question. Fifth columnists for PETA and the like is what they are and unfortunately there ain't a lot we can do about it.
I still hear, on a regular basis, on BBC, how swans are killed by anglers lead shot and you can't tell me they don't know the truth of it. The question is often raised "is angling cruel" but they seem to make it a statement not a question. Fifth columnists for PETA and the like is what they are and unfortunately there ain't a lot we can do about it.
C
Cakey
Guest
its not the presenters fault ...its the researchers
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
This is what the Lib-Dems say on angling -
"Sorry, no matches were found containing angling."
and that's official from their website.
"Sorry, no matches were found containing angling."
and that's official from their website.
John Jones
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Its right we stand our corner when faced with ignorance. However we musn't get paranoid about it. As I pointed out recently to the 'Greens', there are upwards of 3 million anglers in this country. Add to them their wives/husbands and older family members and you are probably looking at around 10 million voters. Which of the main political parties is going to be prepared to disenfranchise itself from this number of potential votes? Yes, we must be vigilant, but even the 'loony left' must realise that by adopting an anti-angling stance they are removing any chance of political power.
S
Stuart Wilson
Guest
Emmmmmm.......
Surley this is a piss take, or has the good professor suddenly developed a sense of irony????
"One major dictionary refers to the term as a derogatory term covering educated people, operating as a social group and holding liberal opinions. I would modify that slightly by saying that they hold opinions, always, and on everything...."
Sounds a pretty good decription of Barry Rickards himself!
"well beyond the Bloomsbury Set who were typical, and nauseating to boot.."
......Personally acquainted with Virginia Woolf were you, or is this just part of having an opinion on everything!!!
"The reason they even talk about it at all is because it has been drawn to their attention by the antis and by BBC journalists."
......A good job you don't suffer from a shallow appraisal of the media!
"The Chattering Classes actually determine what happens in many of the social rules governing our country."
.....You should know - you're probably most peoples idea of an archetypal chatterer!!
How anybody with an academic background can write such crap, and presumable feel pleased with the finished product, is totally beyond me.
Surley this is a piss take, or has the good professor suddenly developed a sense of irony????
"One major dictionary refers to the term as a derogatory term covering educated people, operating as a social group and holding liberal opinions. I would modify that slightly by saying that they hold opinions, always, and on everything...."
Sounds a pretty good decription of Barry Rickards himself!
"well beyond the Bloomsbury Set who were typical, and nauseating to boot.."
......Personally acquainted with Virginia Woolf were you, or is this just part of having an opinion on everything!!!
"The reason they even talk about it at all is because it has been drawn to their attention by the antis and by BBC journalists."
......A good job you don't suffer from a shallow appraisal of the media!
"The Chattering Classes actually determine what happens in many of the social rules governing our country."
.....You should know - you're probably most peoples idea of an archetypal chatterer!!
How anybody with an academic background can write such crap, and presumable feel pleased with the finished product, is totally beyond me.
B
Big Rik
Guest
which is why they don't publish it in their manifestos or on their websites John.
You're right about not being paranoid, but leopards don't change their spots, they just sit silently in the background until they think the time is right.
You're right about not being paranoid, but leopards don't change their spots, they just sit silently in the background until they think the time is right.
A
AL.
Guest
I work for the BBC and as you can imagine in such a large organisation there are many different viewpoints. Where i work we actually have a lake and a fishing club so obviously the BBC at grass roots level is not anti angling. However the power of the media over the individual is that it gives you a platform for your opinions. Let us not forget that the BBC commissioned and screened " A passion for Angling",jack charlton and Paul young programmes.
cheers.
cheers.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Seems Stuart Wilson will not be on Barrie's Christmas card list again this year.
Got a flea up your backside have you?
Got a flea up your backside have you?
B
Big Rik
Guest
Good point Alan,
do you think it's just the shock/news factor for the BBC?
People happily getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves is hardly earth shattering news is it.....
do you think it's just the shock/news factor for the BBC?
People happily getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves is hardly earth shattering news is it.....
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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Stuart, why don't you elaborate more on your view of Barrie and his opinion of the 'Chattering Classes'? FISHINGmagic welcomes all viewpoints and the forum is open to you. We have a page or two waiting in the 'Politics and Comment' section if you would like to contribute an article about this issue. At the moment it's just a knock against Barrie with no apparent justification.
Calling what he said 'crap' and leaving it at that is worthless.
Calling what he said 'crap' and leaving it at that is worthless.
Viewed as an antidote to the ?dumbing down? process that our society has fallen victim to over the last generation, I see the chattering classes somewhat differently to Barrie Rickards.
They are not (yet) allied to any one political party but rather span the whole spectrum of political perspectives, although, reading the examples that Barrie has (rather narrowly) chosen one could be forgiven for seeing them as such.
It is indeed encouraging to see that we are becoming a nation of ?talkers? again as opposed to a nation of dumb onlookers that computers, television, video games (and the like) so nearly managed to morph? us into.
So, rather than seeing the chattering classes as a threat it would surely be a more inspired view to see them as an important ally in the education process?
Where I would be inclined to agree is that there is a definite process of education and enlightenment that is needed from the pro angling side in order to best utilize this well educated and intelligent resource.
They are not (yet) allied to any one political party but rather span the whole spectrum of political perspectives, although, reading the examples that Barrie has (rather narrowly) chosen one could be forgiven for seeing them as such.
It is indeed encouraging to see that we are becoming a nation of ?talkers? again as opposed to a nation of dumb onlookers that computers, television, video games (and the like) so nearly managed to morph? us into.
So, rather than seeing the chattering classes as a threat it would surely be a more inspired view to see them as an important ally in the education process?
Where I would be inclined to agree is that there is a definite process of education and enlightenment that is needed from the pro angling side in order to best utilize this well educated and intelligent resource.
S
Stuart Wilson
Guest
'Fraid Barry Rickard's often succedes in getting a flea up my beackside - suppose he gets me looking at the site!! A few people have said we'd get on if we met both academic who like fishing after all!!
Actually he did say something I agreed with a while ago about productivity of British rivers.
Actually he did say something I agreed with a while ago about productivity of British rivers.
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Yes, but you brought out some points he made in his article and just slagged him off. If you are an academic you'll understand the need for structured debate so at least put you own views forward so we can weight those into the argument as well.
Or don't you do that sort of thing? Stand and be counted.
Or don't you do that sort of thing? Stand and be counted.
F
Frothey
Guest
'Fraid Barry Rickard's often SUCCEEDS in getting a flea up my BACKside - I suppose he gets me looking at the site!! A few people have said we'd get on if we met AS WE'RE both academicS who like fishing after all!!
tut tut, and they reckon that A-Levels are getting easier! I shudder to think what the quality of spelling and grammar is going to be like now.....
lol!
tut tut, and they reckon that A-Levels are getting easier! I shudder to think what the quality of spelling and grammar is going to be like now.....
lol!
Dave,
If "A" levels get any easier they will be giving them away at the bottom of Corn Flake packets - the same as driving licenses in the USA!
If "A" levels get any easier they will be giving them away at the bottom of Corn Flake packets - the same as driving licenses in the USA!
F
Frothey
Guest
at least i took my gcse's when they were at their toughest.....the second year!
i nearly got one as well.....drama was particularly tough that year......
i nearly got one as well.....drama was particularly tough that year......