Sorry, Rivers and still waters.
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Stuart Dennis
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"It is a forum where we share information Stuart. But I honestly think we should be more careful in what we say.
Again, I am thinking more of rivers.?
Rivers or not Baz, I still don't buy it I'm afraid. I appreciate the point behind 'press bans' and those who join waters on that basis should abide by those rules, but keeping quiet about where one fishes as a norm is a bit far out for me.
All waters (fishing waters) will have fish in them, so poaching may take place anywhere and anytime unfortunately - but I don't think everyone should keep quiet about where they fish. The next point will be ?As well as keeping quiet about where you fish, you should now keep quiet about how you fish? then there will be no point having forums like this?
Again, I am thinking more of rivers.?
Rivers or not Baz, I still don't buy it I'm afraid. I appreciate the point behind 'press bans' and those who join waters on that basis should abide by those rules, but keeping quiet about where one fishes as a norm is a bit far out for me.
All waters (fishing waters) will have fish in them, so poaching may take place anywhere and anytime unfortunately - but I don't think everyone should keep quiet about where they fish. The next point will be ?As well as keeping quiet about where you fish, you should now keep quiet about how you fish? then there will be no point having forums like this?
G
Gary Knowles 2
Guest
A few points to cover so please bear with me.
First of all I wasn?t considering long stay carp anglers when I posted, I think I mentioned that but not sure. Whether right or wrong on large waters containing large carp this is an accepted way of life. Plenty of water to go at even if some swims/areas are better than others. As most of you know I use bivvies in summer quite often when bream fishing so I?m certainly not against night fishing or long stay fishing, if I had the time I?d do a bit more myself. But I?m damned sure I wouldn?t do it in spots that some do, whatever the potential rewards.
With regard to rivers, I?m not even thinking about anglers hogging swims, they do, it?s selfish but that wasn?t my point. My point was even if night fishing is allowed, and an angler decides for whatever reason he?s going to camp in THAT swim till he catches THAT fish then he should be, at the very least discreet. Anyone who believes that putting a bivvy on a river, for 2-3 days a week, for 25-30 weeks a year isn?t going to contribute to getting night fishing banned is either thick of thick skinned. Because day anglers, pleasure anglers whatever you wish to call them will get pi55ed off with it and complain to the committee until it?s banned. This WILL happen, make no mistake. And no matter how many times the person in question tells himself he isn?t affecting anyone?s fishing he is totally and utterly wrong.
Now the angler who fishes for a discreet couple of hours into dark with just his rods and maybe a brolly/brotel against the elements will appear to most to be fishing a couple of hours into dark and no-one usually objects to that. If he chose to stay all night then again, it?s discreet and will not attract unwanted attention. Do you see where I?m coming from with this now Stu ?
On the subject of breaking the rules a little then if I?m honest Stu I?d say yeah, it is OK. I don?t believe that is double standards because my post and hence my point isn?t really about breaking rules its doing something that affect/detracts from other anglers. I?m a member of a couple of clubs that don?t allow night fishing, but in both cases I have spoken to the bailiff?s who tell me the committee have instructed them to turn a blind eye to anyone fishing a few hours into dark as they don?t have a problem with this. What they are actively trying to discourage is bivvys appearing on their water.
First of all I wasn?t considering long stay carp anglers when I posted, I think I mentioned that but not sure. Whether right or wrong on large waters containing large carp this is an accepted way of life. Plenty of water to go at even if some swims/areas are better than others. As most of you know I use bivvies in summer quite often when bream fishing so I?m certainly not against night fishing or long stay fishing, if I had the time I?d do a bit more myself. But I?m damned sure I wouldn?t do it in spots that some do, whatever the potential rewards.
With regard to rivers, I?m not even thinking about anglers hogging swims, they do, it?s selfish but that wasn?t my point. My point was even if night fishing is allowed, and an angler decides for whatever reason he?s going to camp in THAT swim till he catches THAT fish then he should be, at the very least discreet. Anyone who believes that putting a bivvy on a river, for 2-3 days a week, for 25-30 weeks a year isn?t going to contribute to getting night fishing banned is either thick of thick skinned. Because day anglers, pleasure anglers whatever you wish to call them will get pi55ed off with it and complain to the committee until it?s banned. This WILL happen, make no mistake. And no matter how many times the person in question tells himself he isn?t affecting anyone?s fishing he is totally and utterly wrong.
Now the angler who fishes for a discreet couple of hours into dark with just his rods and maybe a brolly/brotel against the elements will appear to most to be fishing a couple of hours into dark and no-one usually objects to that. If he chose to stay all night then again, it?s discreet and will not attract unwanted attention. Do you see where I?m coming from with this now Stu ?
On the subject of breaking the rules a little then if I?m honest Stu I?d say yeah, it is OK. I don?t believe that is double standards because my post and hence my point isn?t really about breaking rules its doing something that affect/detracts from other anglers. I?m a member of a couple of clubs that don?t allow night fishing, but in both cases I have spoken to the bailiff?s who tell me the committee have instructed them to turn a blind eye to anyone fishing a few hours into dark as they don?t have a problem with this. What they are actively trying to discourage is bivvys appearing on their water.
G
Gary Knowles 2
Guest
Baz?s point is an entirely different one to the above but it is valid for many reasons. I personally think it is wrong to disclose precise locations on an open forum. There are a lot of lazy anglers out there who trawl the net hoping to find short cuts to good fishing. Many will be fine responsible anglers who are clever enough to tap into other peoples knowledge and put 2 and 2 together. Others will be, as Baz puts it undesirables, poaches, fish thieves, litter louts, thugs, etc, etc. It WILL cause problems with landowners, it WILL increase rubbish, it WILL increase the risk of the controlling club losing the water. Bur perhaps most importantly it WILL endanger the lives of fish. Numpties fishing for barbell in summer who just want a big fish and don?t give a sh*t about returning it in good condition. Pike anglers gut hooking big fish, etc. Baz has a point, he may be at one end of the scale but anyone who dismisses his comments out of hand are being blind.
From what I can see the only comment he?s making is not to post exact locations on an open forum. He?s not saying don?t share info, rigs, tactics, etc. I suppose this is going to put me in a minority but I agree with him.
I?m off now and won?t be logging on until Monday so don?t think I?m ignoring any replies to this posting. Good luck this weekend guys !
From what I can see the only comment he?s making is not to post exact locations on an open forum. He?s not saying don?t share info, rigs, tactics, etc. I suppose this is going to put me in a minority but I agree with him.
I?m off now and won?t be logging on until Monday so don?t think I?m ignoring any replies to this posting. Good luck this weekend guys !
What is the point of having rules, if they are not hard and fast? There's no night fishing but you can fish a few hours into darkness? How will you define 'a few', and will my 'few hours' be the same as the next man? If you don't want bivvies, then would it not make more sense to impose an explicit ban on bivvies, rather than a half-hearted ban on night fishing? This all seems a little elitist to me if you don't mind me saying!
Milo,
I will try and explain what you have just asked.
In this case it is not the club who says no bivvies. It is the farmer/landowner who stipulates this for whatever reason. This is in the clubs lease, and they have to stick to it.
Nobody, including the farmer objects to anglers doing a night or few hours into dark, under an umberella. But no bivvies. The farmer has had problems in the past with all night anglers, so wants to avoid it from happening again.
But some smaty pants will come along and use a umberella with storm sides, pushing for a little more all the time, then one thing leads to another.
This particular river could always be night fished, at no extra charge for members. But anglers being wghat they are, started posting on another forum complaining that people had done the night.
They made such a fuss that the club now charges extra for night fishing, why? when all they had to do was keep their mouths shut. It was all above board and legal.
There are more people than me and Gary that know what is going on. If you look back on the Perch Talk thread, you will see that I am willing to give information to other anglers regarding locations. By private e-mail, not on an open forum. It is asking for trouble.
I will try and explain what you have just asked.
In this case it is not the club who says no bivvies. It is the farmer/landowner who stipulates this for whatever reason. This is in the clubs lease, and they have to stick to it.
Nobody, including the farmer objects to anglers doing a night or few hours into dark, under an umberella. But no bivvies. The farmer has had problems in the past with all night anglers, so wants to avoid it from happening again.
But some smaty pants will come along and use a umberella with storm sides, pushing for a little more all the time, then one thing leads to another.
This particular river could always be night fished, at no extra charge for members. But anglers being wghat they are, started posting on another forum complaining that people had done the night.
They made such a fuss that the club now charges extra for night fishing, why? when all they had to do was keep their mouths shut. It was all above board and legal.
There are more people than me and Gary that know what is going on. If you look back on the Perch Talk thread, you will see that I am willing to give information to other anglers regarding locations. By private e-mail, not on an open forum. It is asking for trouble.
Gary says, bailifs turn a blind eye to a person fishing after dark. By doing this they were trying to avoid the bivvies appearing.This is quite true.
Into dark Under an umberela yes, no problems.
I repeat this was for no extra charge, but through day anglers/pleasure anglers, not haveing the sense to phone the club and ask about night fishing, even though I had told them myself it was okay, they still complained, now they have to pay for the privialage. All these complaints were through a forum, and not direct to the club. The club decided, okay then, if you don't want it for free, pay for it.
This is just one small instance of misguided anglers.
Into dark Under an umberela yes, no problems.
I repeat this was for no extra charge, but through day anglers/pleasure anglers, not haveing the sense to phone the club and ask about night fishing, even though I had told them myself it was okay, they still complained, now they have to pay for the privialage. All these complaints were through a forum, and not direct to the club. The club decided, okay then, if you don't want it for free, pay for it.
This is just one small instance of misguided anglers.
Baz, thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying about the terms of the lease, and some people always trying to push the boundariesm though my question was related to Gary's statement, "Likewise catch reports on known waters with night fishing bans, with anglers holding fish against black skies. Are they really so naive to think that committee members monitor the press and websites, don?t they realise it?s a matter of time before the bailiffs get together and swoop. When that happens everyone else can forget that couple of hour?s discreet fishing after dusk." If there is a night fishing ban, then shouldn't it be just that? It's this selective blindness that encourages people to take advantage, seeing how far they can push things.
M
Malcolm Bason
Guest
Possibly misguided committee members too who make up some of these rules!
Its ok to sit there under a brolly untill after dark for a couple of hours, so why not a bivvy until a couple of hours after dark?
Seems to me like 'certain types' of anglers making the rules because they don't like 'certain other types' of anglers!
Bloody ridiculous!
"Mr chairman, what we don't want on our rivers are those bivvy sorts". "I move that we ban there usage, but allow brollies". "Seconded" Passed by a majority of those present - who just happen to be of the former 'certain type' of angler!
I suppose the same committee bans boilies?
Its ok to sit there under a brolly untill after dark for a couple of hours, so why not a bivvy until a couple of hours after dark?
Seems to me like 'certain types' of anglers making the rules because they don't like 'certain other types' of anglers!
Bloody ridiculous!
"Mr chairman, what we don't want on our rivers are those bivvy sorts". "I move that we ban there usage, but allow brollies". "Seconded" Passed by a majority of those present - who just happen to be of the former 'certain type' of angler!
I suppose the same committee bans boilies?
Malcolm,
It is ""NOT"" the club that says no bivvies.
It is the farmer.
The club has to abide by the farmers wishes if they want the water.
Could somebody tell me why a certtain club which I will not name has a NO PUBLICITY POLICY.? i.e members must not divulge locations, on forums or anywhere.
It is ""NOT"" the club that says no bivvies.
It is the farmer.
The club has to abide by the farmers wishes if they want the water.
Could somebody tell me why a certtain club which I will not name has a NO PUBLICITY POLICY.? i.e members must not divulge locations, on forums or anywhere.
Stuart Dennis
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Sorry, but I support Milo 100%
Okay then,
A still water such as the blue lagoon, or the one you wrote about Stuart in youre article a lake of about 6 acres.
They have to be named as it is the only way of letting anglers know where you are talking about. BUT.... A still wate rusually has people fishing it for most of the time. Therefore it is less likely to be poached.
There can be twenty miles or more of river which has nobody fishing it, especially in the closed season. So there is a massive difference between the river and still water.
It could be that you liveing down south do not have the same problems as people liveing in the North, and this is why we can't agree with each other. We do no tsee each others problems first hand.
I stand by what I have said, and sadly when people do realise the problems they are causeing it will be too late.
A still water such as the blue lagoon, or the one you wrote about Stuart in youre article a lake of about 6 acres.
They have to be named as it is the only way of letting anglers know where you are talking about. BUT.... A still wate rusually has people fishing it for most of the time. Therefore it is less likely to be poached.
There can be twenty miles or more of river which has nobody fishing it, especially in the closed season. So there is a massive difference between the river and still water.
It could be that you liveing down south do not have the same problems as people liveing in the North, and this is why we can't agree with each other. We do no tsee each others problems first hand.
I stand by what I have said, and sadly when people do realise the problems they are causeing it will be too late.
I wish I lived nearer to you lads, you would never be stuck for an arguement with me around.
Please don't misunderstand that, it's only friendly banter.
Please don't misunderstand that, it's only friendly banter.
T
The Monk
Guest
I must confess, being of the secret seventies carp school, I still disguise the true names of the waters in which I write about, but I disguise them in such a way, that a little research will soon give evidence of their location, certainly to the people who already know them. I have two reasons for doing this, firstly I have respect for the anglers who are fishing these waters and who are spending money and time working on these lakes trying to get an appropriate result, I dont think it would, rightly or wrongly, be ethical to openly write about these waters (maybe its a generation thing), the land of mystery, the Cheshire Meres were classics, with pools like Erewon and Berth being classic examples, even Birch Grove is not its real name. I`ve also had cases when I`ve been invited onto going waters and been fortunate in having some excellent results, again I don`t consider it ethical to openly disclose these waters at the time. Obviously we try to help whenever possible, but water location has always been a bit sensitive to me in certain instances!
B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
First of all let me say I have no problem with bivvies,night fishing,long stay fishing or a bit of discreet rule breaking! What I do have a problem with (as in reality it seems most do here) is piss takers!
1. The "well known" angler who wrote the article blatantly boasting about night fishing Claydon Lakes,a venue which has a night fishing ban due to security of the property its on and any infringement of this rule could result in the rights being lost,in an angling monthly.He thought he was clever...I thought he was a selfish prick!
2.The "Tag team" carp swim hoggers.Ultra Cult? No Ultra Selfish.Need I say more?
3.My pet hate "the go to work but leave all your gear in the swim knob" Nothing more annoying than to arrive at the lake for a dawn start only to find a bivvy with sleeping ocupant!Ah well first come first served I hear you say but the blood starts to boil when after setting up in a less favoured swim you see sleeping beutey get out of his bivvy and go of to work!
Myself and a few piking mates have considered grabbing hold of these offenders in the middle of a dark winters night,pulling down their camo pants and buggering them over their Fox chair with the largest Spod in their camo rucksack!I reckon as soon as word got around night fishing on the venue would lose its popularity?
Mind you on the other hand it might attract some...........Its Milton lake near Canterbury Wol
1. The "well known" angler who wrote the article blatantly boasting about night fishing Claydon Lakes,a venue which has a night fishing ban due to security of the property its on and any infringement of this rule could result in the rights being lost,in an angling monthly.He thought he was clever...I thought he was a selfish prick!
2.The "Tag team" carp swim hoggers.Ultra Cult? No Ultra Selfish.Need I say more?
3.My pet hate "the go to work but leave all your gear in the swim knob" Nothing more annoying than to arrive at the lake for a dawn start only to find a bivvy with sleeping ocupant!Ah well first come first served I hear you say but the blood starts to boil when after setting up in a less favoured swim you see sleeping beutey get out of his bivvy and go of to work!
Myself and a few piking mates have considered grabbing hold of these offenders in the middle of a dark winters night,pulling down their camo pants and buggering them over their Fox chair with the largest Spod in their camo rucksack!I reckon as soon as word got around night fishing on the venue would lose its popularity?
Mind you on the other hand it might attract some...........Its Milton lake near Canterbury Wol
How far will youre security firm travel Budgie?
I know of a few waters where the anglers could do with buggering some sense into them.
I know of a few waters where the anglers could do with buggering some sense into them.
B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
Maybe we should team up Baz? I can see it now "Pike Man" and "Bivvy Boy" dressed in skin tight Real Tree lycra jumpsuits and armed only with strap on boilly rockets we could tour the big fish waters of England bringing back law,order and fair play to the world of specialist angling! Pants full of dog shit and custard? they aint seen nothing yet!
We could sort it out mate.
Bish, bash, bosh. jobs a good un.
Bish, bash, bosh. jobs a good un.
Stuart Dennis
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All that Buggering Budgie, me finks you've been purhasing too much from Ashford Tackle!
B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
They wish!