Hooking Mortality

[GrahamM]

I hesitated before placing this in the public arena, thinking about the reaction when John Bailey made slightly similar comments but with far more inflammatory language. But then I thought that we shouldn’t hide from it, after all, the survey is there for all to see anyway, and we need to debate such issues whether we like them or not.

So here it is, and it is awaiting your comments.

Like I’ve said many times before, when debating such things as barbless hooks, livebaiting, keepnets and the image we portray, the bottom line is that we hook fish and it’s that, and only that really, that we need to stand up for and defend.

The side issues are pretty meaningless if we can’t defend the very thing that we all, every single angler on this planet, does – and that’s hook fish.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

I am always VERY dubious of any claim made in the states. There fish and the way of fishing is VERY different to ours. Lure fishing is the predominant method there...usually with lures that have large singles or several trebles attached. There Bass, which everyone seems to fish for is not too hardy. There methods of landing fish are not too great either. I have seen Pike and Muskie lifted from the water by the eye sockets...and then released!!

I know this is a general, sweeping statement...but I think the 10% figure is too.

Take a look at Carp in the UK...how many times has Basil, Mary, the big fish in Waveny/Wintons etc been caught? Look at the Redmire fish... Rasberry has been caught over a 40 year period!!

I cant honestly believe these figures for uk fish...we would have 20 pound carp floating about in every carp water in britain!

Commercial fisheries...the bagging waters...would be littered with dead fish if this were so..100 pound of bream would leave 10 pouns dead???..nahhh

Any biologists out there care to comment? I know some fish will die...but 10%?

 

[Kevan Farmer]

..and how many anglers here use a stringer to hold their catch? In the US these are everyday items of fishing tackle - whether used for released fish or for the pot. A keepnet is far better.

 

[DAVE COOPER]

If those kinds of numbers were true we wouldn't have a fish left to fish for by now given the amount of fish caught in Britain per week. Totally ridiculous. That would mean 10% of fish caught every week don't survive. Week on week, this would make fishing pretty difficult by the end of a season! Repeat captures more than disprove this theory. As Rob says, it's probably more to do with the Yank anglers and their methods.

 

[GrahamM]

I agree with the comments above. Ten per cent is a ridiculously high figure, even for the States where fish welfare is not the same issue as here in the UK.

Wherever this survey has been dug up from I just can't see it reflecting the true picture. They're assuming they don't see the bodies of all those dead fish because of predators mopping them up, but we have lots of waters where there are no predators, and where the fish are caught by the thousand week in and week out, and still not even a 1% mortality rate.

 

[Davy North]

It's a safe bet PETA and their likes will jump on the 10% figure. So once again it is up to us the anglers to put the record straight when ever the need arises.

 

[ray bewick]

How about 1 to 2%?, in a match scenario.

Some do suffer, from poor size mix, i.e big fish injuring smaller fishin the net, smaller fish later dye off due to cumulative effect of crush / infection.

Personally, I choose not to use a keepnet when Coarse fishing. I target larger fish so that individul fish may be released immediately, perhaps after a well organised photo.

If I do fish for smaller species say quality Roach I still release immediately into a selected area & seem to suffer no effect to catch rate

 

[The Seeker of Truth & Justice]

He didnt say that though, he said (whoever it was) that just catching fish was what killed them, and that letting them go after sometimes they keeled over later.

 

[Kevan Farmer]

Cyril. I could see it happening again mainly in the states where the angler is following IGFA line class rules. Fishing with as low a breaking strain line as possible means that the fish is sometimes played out to its extreme. As I say, this could happen with IGFA rules. A lot of us know about barbel if they have had a prolonged fight. I, as far as I know, have never released a barbel to its death. Well before the angling press were advising people to hold onto the barbel - goes for other fish too - head facing into the current, I was already doing this; over 20 years ago. Can you imagine a fish caught on say 2lb line - no, not deliberately - it would take some time and so would need watching before it was released.

 

[ray bewick]

Having now read the excerpts it does seem incredible mathmatically, especially for carp puddles and modern carp fishing. Nah , bloke must have another agenda or as Kevan Farmer implies conditions / rules etc here in the UK are very different. Wonder what the considered American Anglers response is?.

 

[Jim Everiss]

I must say that this report seems way off the mark regarding fish mortalities in the U.K.After all the majority of carp waters would be totally unviable as a business if mortality rates of caught and returned fish approached the 10% mark.The one area that does give cause for concern is the lengthy playing of rainbow trout on light tackle where the fish is totally exhausted by the time it is in the net.I remember the late Sam Holland (of Avington fame) telling me that if the fight is to protracted the rainbow trout will sometimes rupture a blood vessel resulting in death.I have witnessd the opening day 'massacre' of stockies enough times to be aware of the many fish which appear to swim off strongly before keeling over dead.I have also seem numbers of dead trout lying on the bottom - the angler would assume these trout had survived!
I would also assume that the handling of fish in the U.K. is done with far more consideration to the well being of the fish than in the States where catch and release is not practised to the degree seen on home waters.In the case of coarse fish,the handling and returning of fish becomes an ingrained aspect of the sport in the U.K. resulting in less stress/damage to the quarry.

Tight Lines,Jim.

 

[gary magee]

Lets be hypothetical, lets say 0.5% of fish caught die after release .
If a lake holds 10000 fish and 5% are caught (500 fish) every day that means that every month the lake looses approx 75 fish . That means that approx 900 fish die a year . I am sure any one would notice nearly 1000 fish dead in the margins over a year not to mention the natural mortality rate i.e age ,desease, ect.
If the results from the USA are to be believed that would mean using the same figures that 50 fish would die every day resulting in the lake being emptied of fish in 200 days.These scientists may be clever but their feet must stink because they must never see their toes to do some simple maths.
I THINK CERTAIN SCIENTISTS WILL SAY ANY THING TO PLEASE THEIR PAYMASTERS.
Or am I being cynical.

 

[GrahamM]

You're probably right as far as some so-called scientists (and researchers!) are concerned.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Look at it porportionally....500 fish...10% die..leaves 450...10% of them die..leaves 405..10% die...leaves 364.5...so it would not empty as quick as u think.

Predators would have to come into the equation too, as i am sure a wee roach just placed back in the water will be a little disorientate for a few minutes, leaving it open to attack.

My girlfriend is a chemist...and she sees things black and white...bloody scientists!!..lol..no room for common sense or logic...

 

[gary magee]

Rob
Iknow my maths is pretty simplistic and Iagree that proportionality would come into play but even taking this into account a lake would still empty pretty fast if our american friends are to be beleived.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Gary, sorry, I was not having a pop at u...but yeah...we would have an alful lot of empty ponds!

 

[Toonamp]

I know this is an old thread, but I read the PETA web site the other day, and they are in fact claiming that 40% of caught fish die on release.

Astounding that any one would believe that, but at the same time indicitive what truth means to these nutters, and the methods they will be using to gain sympathisers.

 

[The Monk]

do these fish die of old age then,
what bollocks

I`m a qualified scientist and just know how stats and research works

 

[MarkTheSpark]

"we have lots of waters where there are no predators" Not sure that's true, Graham. How do you keep herons etc out, and what about predators of dead fish - everything will eat a dead fish.

I know one thing. Many years ago when I needed some livebaits, I followed the scales at a match and told the anglers I was after zander, which had just invaded the Nene. The ruse worked, and I filled my bucket nicely.

I put them in my livebait tank at home. With five days, they were all dead (but went on to become deadbaits, of course).

A few days later I went to the same bit of the Nene and caught about the same number of small roach, and put them in a bucket as I caught them. I transferred them to the livebait tank later. They all survived (until they became livebaits, anyway).

Fish don't like being kept in keepnets was my conclusion, and my experience of walking the bank after Nationals have finished confirmed that.

Maybe keepnet materials have got better amd anglers more careful now. I hope so.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Mark, if it were true that the mortality rate of fish kept in keepnets was 100% then there wouldn't be any fisheries left in this country.

That has got to rate as one of the most outragous statements I've had the misfortune to read on here and I hope no PETA people pick up on that.