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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
Ouch!!
"As a barrister, Ms C.D.W. will be somewhat a stranger to truth, the law, and ethics."
On the contrary, more probably she is fully conversant with all three. Where she may differ from others is inasmuch as she is more than capable of utilising these without resorting to unsubstatiated argument and ad hominem attack.
"However, Mr Jardine can take great credit for 'writing letters' - after the event."
If you took the time and trouble to investigate and do your own due dilligence then you would see that there is far more to the CA than Mr. Jardine.
"Or am I, like the February Hedgehog, confused?"
February Hedgehog or Groundhog?
"I also apologise for the 'trout' connection, as we all know Clarissa was a Carp; which I note you do with increasing frequency when others disagree with your points of view."
I have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with my views on any given subject providing that I am granted the right of reply. If this is perceived as "carping" then, so be it.
On the contrary, more probably she is fully conversant with all three. Where she may differ from others is inasmuch as she is more than capable of utilising these without resorting to unsubstatiated argument and ad hominem attack.
"However, Mr Jardine can take great credit for 'writing letters' - after the event."
If you took the time and trouble to investigate and do your own due dilligence then you would see that there is far more to the CA than Mr. Jardine.
"Or am I, like the February Hedgehog, confused?"
February Hedgehog or Groundhog?
"I also apologise for the 'trout' connection, as we all know Clarissa was a Carp; which I note you do with increasing frequency when others disagree with your points of view."
I have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with my views on any given subject providing that I am granted the right of reply. If this is perceived as "carping" then, so be it.
Public Perception Peter.
Just ask the ordinary man/ woman in the street about the CA.
I am a great supporter of the NFAC and SAA, but ask Joe public about them and you will get a blank look.
The CA for all it's 'high profile' is perceived by most people to be as, rightly or wrongly, a load of toffs on horses killing foxes for 'fun' (as shown graphically in recent weekend national press)
It's going to take an awful amount of good PR to dispel that impression in most peoples minds, and do we (angling) really want to be associated with that thinking and mindset?
Just ask the ordinary man/ woman in the street about the CA.
I am a great supporter of the NFAC and SAA, but ask Joe public about them and you will get a blank look.
The CA for all it's 'high profile' is perceived by most people to be as, rightly or wrongly, a load of toffs on horses killing foxes for 'fun' (as shown graphically in recent weekend national press)
It's going to take an awful amount of good PR to dispel that impression in most peoples minds, and do we (angling) really want to be associated with that thinking and mindset?
At least we can agree with the public perception of not only the CA but also the NFAC and the SAA.
About 6 months ago I started to look at the various organisations, including the SAA, as I believed at the time (and still do) that it was high time for me to become a member of any organisation that I thought would be beneficial if, and when, the fight starts to abolish angling.
With this, and only this criteria in mind I reviewed whatever policy statements, mission statements etc., that I could find, and to be perfectly blunt I was not at all impressed with what I saw from the angling fraternity.
I then turned to the CA web site and spent a long time reading and learning about their activities.
Now, to tell the truth at this time (6/7 months ago) I was not really bothered unduly about foxhunting either one way or the other.
However, as I became a regular visitor to their web site I was more and more impressed w.r.t. the CA's organisation, staffing, policies, campaigning and lobbying. The CA appeared to me to embrace all of the rural issues that concern me living as I do in the heart of the countryside.
Sadly, my forays onto the various Angling related organisations web sites threw up precious little, if anything concerning even the angling issues, let alone anything else.
As to the CA being representative of a load of toffs on horse, all I can say to the readers of FM is go and take a long and detailed look at their website. Then, do as I did and call your local CA office and ask questions. Then, based on your own due dilligence make up your own mind about the CA, who they are and whom they represent.
I have been an angler for over 45 years and have loved every minute of my sport whether it has been in persuit of Carp, specimen fish, match results or a simple day of pleasure on the river, and YES, I would be happy to be associated with the CA on a number of issues.
About 6 months ago I started to look at the various organisations, including the SAA, as I believed at the time (and still do) that it was high time for me to become a member of any organisation that I thought would be beneficial if, and when, the fight starts to abolish angling.
With this, and only this criteria in mind I reviewed whatever policy statements, mission statements etc., that I could find, and to be perfectly blunt I was not at all impressed with what I saw from the angling fraternity.
I then turned to the CA web site and spent a long time reading and learning about their activities.
Now, to tell the truth at this time (6/7 months ago) I was not really bothered unduly about foxhunting either one way or the other.
However, as I became a regular visitor to their web site I was more and more impressed w.r.t. the CA's organisation, staffing, policies, campaigning and lobbying. The CA appeared to me to embrace all of the rural issues that concern me living as I do in the heart of the countryside.
Sadly, my forays onto the various Angling related organisations web sites threw up precious little, if anything concerning even the angling issues, let alone anything else.
As to the CA being representative of a load of toffs on horse, all I can say to the readers of FM is go and take a long and detailed look at their website. Then, do as I did and call your local CA office and ask questions. Then, based on your own due dilligence make up your own mind about the CA, who they are and whom they represent.
I have been an angler for over 45 years and have loved every minute of my sport whether it has been in persuit of Carp, specimen fish, match results or a simple day of pleasure on the river, and YES, I would be happy to be associated with the CA on a number of issues.
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
Peter,
I havn't done the research you have but one concern I have over the CA is whether or not, despite what it may say, it is very much a one issue body, namely oppositon to the ban on foxhunting.
I do not have any problems with that in that I have been opposed to the ban from the outset.Could it however now run out of steam given the ban is in place?
I do not see the CA as an alternative to an effective angling lobby group.Issues surrounding angling are complex & can only be best put forward by a dedicated organisation.The CA so it would appear seeks to cover a whole range of rurual issues.
THe CA however in my view, if it maintains its momentum, could be a very useful ally, advocating as it does the preservation of traditonal rural pursuits which angling in the vast majority of its guises is undoubtedly one.
I havn't done the research you have but one concern I have over the CA is whether or not, despite what it may say, it is very much a one issue body, namely oppositon to the ban on foxhunting.
I do not have any problems with that in that I have been opposed to the ban from the outset.Could it however now run out of steam given the ban is in place?
I do not see the CA as an alternative to an effective angling lobby group.Issues surrounding angling are complex & can only be best put forward by a dedicated organisation.The CA so it would appear seeks to cover a whole range of rurual issues.
THe CA however in my view, if it maintains its momentum, could be a very useful ally, advocating as it does the preservation of traditonal rural pursuits which angling in the vast majority of its guises is undoubtedly one.
Nigel,
Really that could not be further from the reality of the CA. Take a look at their current Issues and you will see that they are far more encompassing than simply the hunting issue, e.g. food and farming, country sports, land development, jobs and enterprises and landscape and biodiversity conservation.
If there had been an effective alternative I would honestly be singing their praises, sadly there is not one that is currently established with the resources available to the CA.
Really that could not be further from the reality of the CA. Take a look at their current Issues and you will see that they are far more encompassing than simply the hunting issue, e.g. food and farming, country sports, land development, jobs and enterprises and landscape and biodiversity conservation.
If there had been an effective alternative I would honestly be singing their praises, sadly there is not one that is currently established with the resources available to the CA.
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
Would it be fair to say though Peter that the initial momentum came from the hunting issue?
If it can go forward & make an impact on other rural matters then good.
I still hold the view that we need our own organisation whether through reform of existing ones or a new one - a project for your retirement Peter perhaps?
If it can go forward & make an impact on other rural matters then good.
I still hold the view that we need our own organisation whether through reform of existing ones or a new one - a project for your retirement Peter perhaps?
Getting tired now, Peter.
"At least we can agree with the public perception of not only the CA but also the NFAC and the SAA"
I reiterate; If either you did not read, or understand, I was relating to the opinions of the general public of this land, ( and to be honest, is the only opinion that really counts) not the immediate or neer audiences
Much as Graham would love a bigger audience, I doubt whether more than a very small percentage of the great British Public are even aware of Fishingmagic, or it's/our postings.
"The CA appeared to me to embrace all of the rural issues that concern me living as I do in the heart of the countryside".
If I had any problems with a rural bus service, or whatever, my first point of contact would be my MP; you know, the person OFFICIALLY elected to represent me, not some self appointed body. And please do not retort with the usual 'waste of time' My local MP has, as have others, been invaluable and most helpful with any concerns I have brought to his/their attention, unlike I would suggest, the CA would or could ever be.
"As to the CA being representative of a load of toffs on horse, all I can say to the readers of FM is go and take a long and detailed look at their website. Then, do as I did and call your local CA office and ask questions. Then, based on your own due dilligence make up your own mind about the CA, who they are and whom they represent."
Ah yes, locally he's the guy who also fronted the fuel protest's not too many years ago.(driving to picket lines using red diesel on his tractor) Almost put me out of business and stopped ambulances from obtaining fuel - yes, very responsible people my local CA.
As for the NAFAC, it is currently the fastest growing organisation in it's field.
Would be unable to help with the bus issue though, horses for courses. (Couldn't resist that, sorry)
"I would be happy to be associated with the CA on a number of issues"
There are some (not many though) Conservative policies that I agree with, but I could never bring myself to join the party, or even vote for it.
Should you wish Peter, I could e-mail you the SAA application form, but then probably the C.A. IS your natural home.
But, and there always is a but, just how high, and for how long will angling be on the CA agenda now the hunting with dogs issue is lost?
"At least we can agree with the public perception of not only the CA but also the NFAC and the SAA"
I reiterate; If either you did not read, or understand, I was relating to the opinions of the general public of this land, ( and to be honest, is the only opinion that really counts) not the immediate or neer audiences
Much as Graham would love a bigger audience, I doubt whether more than a very small percentage of the great British Public are even aware of Fishingmagic, or it's/our postings.
"The CA appeared to me to embrace all of the rural issues that concern me living as I do in the heart of the countryside".
If I had any problems with a rural bus service, or whatever, my first point of contact would be my MP; you know, the person OFFICIALLY elected to represent me, not some self appointed body. And please do not retort with the usual 'waste of time' My local MP has, as have others, been invaluable and most helpful with any concerns I have brought to his/their attention, unlike I would suggest, the CA would or could ever be.
"As to the CA being representative of a load of toffs on horse, all I can say to the readers of FM is go and take a long and detailed look at their website. Then, do as I did and call your local CA office and ask questions. Then, based on your own due dilligence make up your own mind about the CA, who they are and whom they represent."
Ah yes, locally he's the guy who also fronted the fuel protest's not too many years ago.(driving to picket lines using red diesel on his tractor) Almost put me out of business and stopped ambulances from obtaining fuel - yes, very responsible people my local CA.
As for the NAFAC, it is currently the fastest growing organisation in it's field.
Would be unable to help with the bus issue though, horses for courses. (Couldn't resist that, sorry)
"I would be happy to be associated with the CA on a number of issues"
There are some (not many though) Conservative policies that I agree with, but I could never bring myself to join the party, or even vote for it.
Should you wish Peter, I could e-mail you the SAA application form, but then probably the C.A. IS your natural home.
But, and there always is a but, just how high, and for how long will angling be on the CA agenda now the hunting with dogs issue is lost?
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
"Getting tired now, Peter."
I should think you are Wearyone. I have yet to comprehend any point you're trying to make other than you seem to opposed to the CA. Is it possible you could make a point without trying to be sarcastic to other members and in doing so clarify your own position?
Please?
I should think you are Wearyone. I have yet to comprehend any point you're trying to make other than you seem to opposed to the CA. Is it possible you could make a point without trying to be sarcastic to other members and in doing so clarify your own position?
Please?
Wearyone,
You maybe fortunate enough to live in a area with a decent MP. Sadly, my local MP is very much anti angling and says so on his web site.
If the above is your experience of your local CA office (Countryside Alliance and not Conservative Party) then I can easily understand your differences and annoyance.
I did take a look at the SAA, in fact they were the first organisation that I turned to, as they would more closely reflect the sort of fishing that I do most. I just didn't see the sort of organisation that I would consider as necessary to actively and efectively fight the angling cause. This is not surprising though as they were never inaugurated as this sort of organisation, so please don't infer any criticism on my part for that.
Time alone will tell w.r.t. the CA's lasting influence, but then if it fails then I do hope that there will be an angling only oriented group available to take up the fight.
You maybe fortunate enough to live in a area with a decent MP. Sadly, my local MP is very much anti angling and says so on his web site.
If the above is your experience of your local CA office (Countryside Alliance and not Conservative Party) then I can easily understand your differences and annoyance.
I did take a look at the SAA, in fact they were the first organisation that I turned to, as they would more closely reflect the sort of fishing that I do most. I just didn't see the sort of organisation that I would consider as necessary to actively and efectively fight the angling cause. This is not surprising though as they were never inaugurated as this sort of organisation, so please don't infer any criticism on my part for that.
Time alone will tell w.r.t. the CA's lasting influence, but then if it fails then I do hope that there will be an angling only oriented group available to take up the fight.
"a project for your retirement Peter perhaps? "
Nigel, the day I am finished with my chosen work will see me on the river banks full time, I hope.
That said I did run a few figures through my project accountants to see the sort of budget (and therefrom membership numbers required) and I myself was truly amazed at the sort of funding you would need to be really effective. By effective I mean having to hand the sort of sums of money (like the ?1.1m) donated to a certain political party just before they went on the ani hunting rampage.
Then again, if we don't realise such an organisation soon then maybe my retirement will be spent back in Scandinavia where animals are treated as such - humanely but not attributed with all the rights of human beings.
"Nigel, the day I am finished with my chosen work will see me on the river banks full time, I hope.
That said I did run a few figures through my project accountants to see the sort of budget (and therefrom membership numbers required) and I myself was truly amazed at the sort of funding you would need to be really effective. By effective I mean having to hand the sort of sums of money (like the ?1.1m) donated to a certain political party just before they went on the ani hunting rampage.
Then again, if we don't realise such an organisation soon then maybe my retirement will be spent back in Scandinavia where animals are treated as such - humanely but not attributed with all the rights of human beings.