hair rig

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Has anyone tried tying the hair rig so the hair comes off in front of the hook point instead of behind the hook shank?

I'm assuming that it wouldn't work but wondered if anyone had experimented with it?

 

[Tee-Cee]

Sorry LP,but I cannot see what you're getting at....if are you talking of the knotless knot hair I assume you thread the line through the eye of the hook(before you begin winding line around the shank)from the front rather than the back to achieve what you're suggesting......maybe I'm missing the point!!

...do you have a pic-I think its an interesting question though and maybe has some merit....??

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

yes it's would be the knot less knot - tied just the same as normal but with the hair coming out of hte front of the hook so it hangs over the hook point

I've never even tied one let alone fished with one- but I was thinking would the fish see the bait and take it in the same way? - would the hook catch in the fish's mouth? would it turn over?

I may just tied one up and see what it looks like but to tell you'd need to fish with it

Just another of my ideas - and no this isn't my being daft - it's a serious question - so it's not in Baitbox

 

[tortoise100]

I have tried this and found the results were good in general .
I also simulate this by threading on some tube down the hair then over the hook point so that the hair comes right off the last bit of the point it seems to work ok can't say I have scientifically tested it over a long period against a normal rig but it is somthing I do every now and then just like wrapping the hair around the hook or lengthening and shortening hairs for a different presentation.
It certainly looks very agressive and works on your hands and has caught me fish.

 

[noknot]

This should be in the "bait box"

 

[Ray Roberts]

This should be in the "bait box"

I don't see why, I've seen several well known writers advocate wrapping the hair around the hook shank to cause the hook to flip, if it came off the inside of the bend this would have the exactly same effect. It wouldn't matter if it was wrapped ten times around the shank or came off the inside of the bend the effect would be exactly the same

 

[noknot]

I don't see why, I've seen several well known writers advocate wrapping the hair around the hook shank to cause the hook to flip, if it came off the inside of the bend this would have the exactly same effect. It wouldn't matter if it was wrapped ten times around the shank or came off the inside of the bend the effect would be exactly the same

Well Ray, as I see it, just by wrapping the "hair" around the shank it not a very reliable pesentation, surely better to have the hair fixed in position? Also with the hair comming from the front facing the point there is a higher risk for tangles, and even worst, the hook could hook into the bait on the cast which would mask the hook point. Most rigs are designed to allow the hook point to hang down so they catch the botton lip, but the hair from the front will not allow this to happen IMO.

 

[mol]

I would hazard a guess that the hook would enter the mouth eye first as it's pulled in by the bait. Because the hook is effecitively the wrong way round in the carps mouth the point would be less likely to hook anything, particularly as it would be ejected bend first. I would guess you would catch carp on it but you're not stacking the odd in your favour.

 

[Ray Roberts]

I wasn't suggesting that it would necessarily be an improvement, merely that it should not be dismissed so out of hand. I personally think it would depend on the length of the hair and any effect would be marginal

 

[Tee-Cee]

As an aside;I'm not too sure what might be the optimum number of turns of line around the hook shank-I use 8/10 turns-when tying the knotless knot.....I catch fish without problems(I lose very few)so I see no reason to change this BUT would it be beneficial to add more turns.....any comments??

Dayglowfroggy.....I have never tried to use the tube you mention as I cannot see how you thread the line through the tube in the first place!!
So,my question to you is obvious...what tube do you use and how do you add it to the line/braid??

What you say above is interesting(to me anyway!)and I shall carry out some experiments to see if it looks right but as the man said"if it ain't broke don't fix it"!!

LP..sorry to highjack your thread!!

 

[Fred Blake]

Adding more turns would effectively move the point where the hair meets the hookshank further away from the eye. As such it may have some benefit where different patterns of hook are used; for instance eight turns on a short shanked curved hook such as an Owner C5 would put the hair much nearer the bend than the same number of turns on a Korda long shank.

I suspect the tube Dayglowfroggy referred to is silicone; a short length threaded onto the braided hair section with a bait or splicing needle before the hook is tied on, and then slid over the point and positioned on the bend, or the end of the shank. This fixes the hair at the chosen position. The general theory being to position the hair close to the bend for heavy baits, and close to the eye for buoyant ones.

 

[tortoise100]

I use anti tangle tube and just thread it up the baiting needle then on the hair and thread it over the hook point I have done it the other way as well .

It gives you another option and I can only say it works pretty well certainly worth a try if you have not done this , you can also perce the tubing so that everything is a bit more anchored if you want ?

I think it is bye passing the anti eject thing altogether it's such a funny angle it catches anyway I have usually used it with a very short hair 1-2 mm but it will work any way .

I would not say it is revolutionary thats proberbly why it's not caught on as such but I suppose it would only take danny fairbrass or some other name to say this is the next new thing and everyone would be doing it !

 

[Philip]

The general advise often given is to have the hair coming off the back of the shank so opposite the hook point. The reason for this is that its supposed to help the hook turn and flip over & initially prick the fishes mouth. Of course lots of debate then springs up from this & people discuss the relative merits of longer and shorter hairs, were exactly on the shank the hair should exit & so on.

In my opinion none of it really makes much difference at all. The reality is that in a fishes mouth a hook and bait is swooshing and swirling about all over the place as the fish sucks it up and then blows it back out. It is not nicely sliding along smoothly as you see when you test a hair rig on the back of your hand and its basically down to luck that the hook point catches hold on something.

For this reason rather than worry about were the hair exits or how many turns on the hook shank and so on I think its more important to try and focus on keeping the hook and bait apart so the hook point is kept clear and stands more chance of catching on something. Thats the one reason why I would not advise Lord Paul to have the hair off the front of the hook. It will work but there is more chance the hook point will be masked by the bait.

To keep the hook point clear you can try a few things for example use a longer hair, although this can tangle, or use something like a swimmer rig were you tie the bait to the back of the hook, tight to the shank, so physically stopping it from being able to flip over and mask the point.

These may help but truth be told all our rigs are pretty rubbish and your relying on luck the hook finds a hold at the end of the day.

 

[Tee-Cee]

My thanks to those who offered advice-all good stuff and genuine food for thought!!

...sorry,just one last point....the silicon tube used-what diameter is ideal as I note several different ones available in the tackle shops.I don't want to spend good money and find I've bought the wrong one!

......maybe diameter varies to size of hook used.................??

Thanks again..

 

[noknot]

TC, The only thing that I can add, is that with a knotless Knot, there is no need for tubing IMO, and I have tried with and without, with no difference to catch rates! All I can surgest is different hooklink materials, and the way they perform.

I must say that I always wind down so the hair is opposite the hook point, as it can work as a pivot point!

To create a very aggesive angle on the rig, then try a fluro link, it's deadly! To improve a braid rig, then whip down opposite the point, then whip under the hair and 4-5 turns back to the eye, this will hold the hair in the correct place, and also give a much more aggresive angle.

Good luck.
NK.