hook corrosion?

[waggy]

Following claims that snipped-off hooks corrode out of fish in a short time, I thought I'd see what happened to hooks of various sizes left in household acids.
Nothing very scientific as yet but my curiosity is aroused to run more tests.
I left some in plain tap water (ours on Anglesey is slightly acid) and after a month, they've just gone a bit rusty. I put some in malt vinegar and not a thing has happened to them and I put a final batch into fresh-squeezed lemon juice and the smaller sizes, 12s, have only eroded a little.
I think I need to try some in sea water and in something nearer to fishes' stomach acid, like Hydrochloric acid.
Not very encouraging for those who accept that hooks 'rot out' if left in a fish, is it?
Anyone else want to try it with whatever they might think could work?
Any ideas?

 

[geoffmaynard]

I asked Neville Fickling about this at a recent PAC meeting. He seemed to think they rot out in a 'short time' by which he inferred meant days rather than weeks.

I disagree, thinking it's time we all used stainless hooks for pike instead.

 

[waggy]

Does he have any proof of that, Geoff, or is it speculation?

 

[geoffmaynard]

No it was opinion - but based a great deal of experience. Unlike my own opinion which is based on a gut feeling.

If it was me with a piece of metal stuck in my innards I'd prefer it to be stainless than some rotting piece of cheap steel coated in heavy metal. Barry Sheens leg always comes to mind in these conversations

 

[waggy]

Well, I've heard of all sorts of creatures surviving with free-floating bits of plastic and metal lodged in their guts for quite some time but I think that having something actually piercing the stomach wall or associated organs may impair the function of that organ (without considering the pain aspect).
I have an idea that sea water and strong stomach acids might do the trick on the 'cheaper hooks'. I think I'll give it a go.
Your stainless steel comment suggests that small hooks might be the way to go in respect of survival.
I wonder if Barry can walk very well these days? Must be a gas at airport security check-ins. 'Er, just unscrew yer leg, Barry, and put it in that tray. Pick it up on the other side. Now take yer shoe off and hop it through the scanner please."

 

[richiekelly]

Well, I've heard of all sorts of creatures surviving with free-floating bits of plastic and metal lodged in their guts for quite some time but I think that having something actually piercing the stomach wall or associated organs may impair the function of that organ (without considering the pain aspect).
I have an idea that sea water and strong stomach acids might do the trick on the 'cheaper hooks'. I think I'll give it a go.
Your stainless steel comment suggests that small hooks might be the way to go in respect of survival.
I wonder if Barry can walk very well these days? Must be a gas at airport security check-ins. 'Er, just unscrew yer leg, Barry, and put it in that tray. Pick it up on the other side. Now take yer shoe off and hop it through the scanner please."

barry sheene died a number of years ago from cancer so i doubt he walks at all.

 

[geoffmaynard]

Waggy: Here's an article about ss hooks from a few years ago.

Keep us informed about the experiments.

 

[waggy]

Cheers, Geoff.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

barry sheene died a number of years ago from cancer so i doubt he walks at all.

Grief, so he did. I'd clean forgotten .

 

[Philip]

I remember reading something about Eels kept in tanks that managed to get rid of hooks after a day or so. I have caught the very occasional Carp that has had other hooks in it but they were very small hooks which were prob from a break off on someone pleasure fishing for smaller stuff. I would have thought if fish could not rid themselves of hooks we would be catching fish with hooks in them more often.

About hook corrosion on a slightly different track - one trick to avoid corrosion of the hook point when long session fishing when your bait and hook could be out there for days is to dip the point in Vaseline before casting. This wont impact the penetration but may help to protect the point from water corrosion.

 

[matthew barter]

Good point Geoff (don't excuse the pun), I had never thought of it that way. First impressions are favourable, it's just hard when "conventional" wisdom has told me for so long that the opposite is the right way to go. Thanks.

 

[geoffmaynard]

I remember reading something about Eels kept in tanks that managed to get rid of hooks after a day or so. I have caught the very occasional Carp that has had other hooks in it but they were very small hooks which were prob from a break off on someone pleasure fishing for smaller stuff. I would have thought if fish could not rid themselves of hooks we would be catching fish with hooks in them more often.

I remember a 16lb mirror carp once from the GU canal which had a row of about 9 tiny size 18 and 20 match hooks all along it's top lip. It had been hooked many times but never landed.

 

[preston96]

OOOOO look, i can post again, do's that mean i am now a mod or an Ed or something? :wh

I have caught lots of fish with hooks still in them.........including a bream of 11lb+ that was dragging a very sophisticated carp rig complete with 3oz lead around.

The hook was almost rotted thru, which is a good job as the bream was semi tethered and i baited and fished the area it was tethered in.

I have no way of knowing how long it had been tethered or if i "saved" it's life....but i reckon it stood a chance if it lived long enough for the hook to rot.....it wouldn't have if the hook had been stainless.

Right, off to wreak havoc elsewhere now

 

[geoffmaynard]

Bye Paul!

 

[thx1138]

worried about corrosion?.. go teflon-coated

i only use barbless, so i dont worry too much about fish not being able to shed a hook.

 

[waggy]

Hi James, I'm not worried about corrosion. I'm concerned about the lack of it.
If hooks corroded out of fish guts in rapid time that would be great, but if they don't, which is the way to go?
So far 2 of you have suggested the non corrosion route. What do others think?

 

[Philip]

Ok I am going to say it

If anyone is really so concerned about fish welfare to the point they start worrying about if a hook will corrode away should they snap off then I seriously think they should reconsider the sport they follow.

Bottom line is we stick hooks in fish. If your that worried about whether a hook will rot away I would say you have your priorities wrong and should stop sticking hooks in them in the first place, give up angling and take up golf.

Sorry, but that rant is not intended at anyone in particular just in general. In my opinion its going to far and for anyone who cries “Ammo for the Antis blah blah bah” I say we should stop apologizing & making excuses for what we do or we will abolish ourselves.

 

[matthew barter]

Phillip, golfers put divots back.
We enjoy fishing, that's one of the reasons why we care about the fish. Saying that I don't "treat" the fish I catch. I do however care about the enviroment, fish stocks and I wouldn't be happy pointlessly harming any other creature.
I don't think with consideration that I do that, I'll either put a fish back or knock it on the head (usually for food).

 

[waggy]

I have some sympathy for your views, Phillip, but I have to say that countless generations of our ancestors, even before we evolved Human form, depended on their hunting skills for the survival of our species.
The urge to hunt is part of our genetic inheritance and is still a useful trait today, across much of the world, and always will be.
The fact that we treat fish humanely when we put them back, having practised our hunting skill on them, is not just about gratuitous cruelty or being humane, although that's important too; it's, at bottom, probably about conserving surplus food and if treating that food as the precious commodity it is means ensuring it's survival by giving it the best chance possible, then we should look to the methods we use and release fish in as unharmed a condition as possible.

In short (thank the stars, I hear you say) it makes common sense to treat them well after capture. There's no sense in wasting a possible future food source, is there.
I couldn't practise my food getting skills as well by patting a bit of compressed rubber around an extended rabbit warren (minus the rabbits) now could I.

 

[Philip]

Well written Waggy but I dont think basing your argument on fish are a food source is really helping your case because the fact is the majority of coarse anglers don't fish for food do they. They stick a hook in a fish, drag it from the water and then let it go so they can stick another hook in it all over again...

 

[waggy]

Agreed, and that's why I'm no lover of effete C&R carp fisheries. BUT, the majority of anglers are following the undeniable Human instinct to hunt for food, without which we would not have evolved as successfully or in the same form as we have. It pays to remember that evolution (and the development of basic cultural advantages) takes place over a 100s of 1000s timescale of years at least, so we shouldn't be hasty in chucking out the very useful evolved traits that have made us as successful as we've become.
Just because, in the Westernised world, we have no shortage of food (indeed an excess), we don't need to do something we've always relied upon to put food on the table, doesn't mean to say that we have to abandon it. The instinct is still there, however much it is becoming sublimated, more so in some people than others.
I think that the reason individual generations/people don't understand arguments like the conservation of food resource and simultaneously the maintenance of hunting skills is because they've never known want.
Sentimentality is an affordable quantity. In times of want we always ditch it.
Some of us like to keep our powder dry.