The billy lane match rod allcocks

[tortoise100]

Has anybody ever used one of these ?
I have just got it on ebay for £3.78 .
I have not collectect it yet but I have got it to use not collect .
It looks like it will be 13ft but I have no idea what sort of line strength or fishing suitability it will be I hope it would be good for float fishing with a centre pin but I am happy if its got a stiff action and can be used for pike and carp etc.
There is an imaculate example on ebay at silly money with extra section,s but that does not mean it is a good rod just collectable.
If I don't like mine I will sell it again.
Most information I have seen just describes the rod not what it is like to use.

 

[chav professor]

dayglowfrog,

I have a copy of the 1968 Allcocks Anglers guide. It was marketed as a light-weight bottom and match rod, a range that included the Noris Shakespear 'Autograph' series. Of your rod it states:

Made from extra stout hollow fibre-glass for the man matched against bream on a big river. 3-joinyt, long cork handle, sliding aluminium reel fitting, chromed rings throughout, with Aqualight butt anf Hopton end rings, two-tone silk whippings, partitioned bag. Autographed.

Cost 310/8, inc P.Tax

An interview with Billy Lane he describes his tackle:
'I carry four rods, and always carry 3 reels. Two of them are fixed spool reels, each with spare spools and not less than four different sizes of nylon. And, of course, the third reel is my Match Aerial, usually loaded with 2 - 3lb nylon'.

Glass fibre rods are gradually increasing in price, especially good quality ones like the Billy lane made by Allcocks. You will find it difficult to buy a Hardy version of the Richard Walker MK4 carp for less than £100 and I am desperate to find a Peter Stone ledger rod in a car boot

 

[flightliner]

Has anybody ever used one of these ?
I have just got it on ebay for £3.78 .
I have not collectect it yet but I have got it to use not collect .
It looks like it will be 13ft but I have no idea what sort of line strength or fishing suitability it will be I hope it would be good for float fishing with a centre pin but I am happy if its got a stiff action and can be used for pike and carp etc.
There is an imaculate example on ebay at silly money with extra section,s but that does not mean it is a good rod just collectable.
If I don't like mine I will sell it again.
Most information I have seen just describes the rod not what it is like to use.

DGF-- I had the pleasure of being drawn next to the great man himself in the late sixties above the Ivy Cottage section of the Witham at Kirkstead in Lincolnshire, If I remember it may have been either the Lincoln or Boston open match. At the "all in" I went out with the swingtip and Billy put the float on with the centrepin. In the first hour I had four good bream and Billy hadnt had a bite, I was on a roll when there was a sudden downpour that came across the flat fen fields like stairods, it lasted all of fifteen minutes and stopped--- along with my bream!!! Billy came to life and had somewhere in the region of twenty pounds of fish and won the match. It was likely the rod he used was the one you have aquired.
He told me afterwards that I should have kept a weather eye open and it will tell you what to do,---sound advice from a top angler. Hard world match fishing and you sometimes pay heavy to learn.
If he was around today he would run rings around anglers using the latest rods while he used the one you have.

 

[dezza]

Ah! the Billy Lane Match Rod. 13 feet, hollow glass in 3 pieces with brass ferrules. It was a real wrist breaker and was closely whipped too; I can't imagine why.

I used one once, on loan from Allcocks for review in the Angling Telegraph. I don't remember giving the rod a very good review. However Ray Webb took it off me, took 18 inches off the top and used it to throw herrings around for pike!

It was a tough stick make no mistake, although shortly after it was launched, Milbro had the Enterprise, a 4 piece 13 foot, ferruless hollow glass match rod. It was probably the best roach rod around at the time, lovely and light it was. I lost no time and acquired one after a recommendation from **** Walker. I reckon **** helped sell hundreds of these rods.

 

[Murray Rogers]

Ah! the Billy Lane Match Rod. 13 feet, hollow glass in 3 pieces with brass ferrules. It was a real wrist breaker and was closely whipped too; I can't imagine why.

I used one once, on loan from Allcocks for review in the Angling Telegraph. I don't remember giving the rod a very good review. However Ray Webb took it off me, took 18 inches off the top and used it to throw herrings around for pike!

It was a tough stick make no mistake, although shortly after it was launched, Milbro had the Enterprise, a 4 piece 13 foot, ferruless hollow glass match rod. It was probably the best roach rod around at the time, lovely and light it was. I lost no time and acquired one after a recommendation from **** Walker. I reckon **** helped sell hundreds of these rods.

Oi, whats all this then, talking nonsense on a perfectly good site,,,,,, Come back home we miss you!!!! Well some of us do.

 

[tortoise100]

Thanks for the info guys I look forward to putting it through it's paces .
It sounds like if it is for bream on a big river it could be up for some abuse from 4-6lb carp that frequent my local lake .
I will have to try it out with my centre pin as that has been without a rod since I broke my last 13ft.

 

[chav professor]

I am sure you will have great fun with it!!! I love fishing with vintage gear and giving it a new lease of life. Forget all this 'carbon fibre is so much better' propoganda'. these rods were the best that money could buy and were what all grown men aspired to own!!

I'm not adverse to using modern gear, but sometimes I genuinely get more pleasure from handling a rod and reel with a heratage from an era before fishing got so 'high pressure'. Give me my MK4 before any trappers 3.5lb test curve.

 

[Paul Boote]

Given a brand spanking new one, Christmas 1966, as the result of an early take on Pester Power, by my folks. Caught a fair few fish on it - Thames, Kennet, Stour, Avon - until the very early 1970s when, still a teenager, I had to admit that, beside the "other stuff" around and coming through, it was a hernia pole pile of poo.

PS - still use my home-made versions of Billy's very fine floats, though.

 

[tortoise100]

hernia pole pile of poo
I like that .
well if I don't like it I will just sell it no harm done and as long as I get more than £3.78 for it I am quids in .

 

[dezza]

You know I just might do something daft!

I might get myself a kit and make myself a Mk IV carp rod for old time sake, and do a bit of classic carp fishing with it.

Come on chaps, tell me I've gone off my trolley?

 

[Fred Blake]

You know I just might do something daft!

I might get myself a kit and make myself a Mk IV carp rod for old time sake, and do a bit of classic carp fishing with it.

Come on chaps, tell me I've gone off my trolley?

Go for it. A ten foot cane rod is not heavy, and would probably sit in rests much of the time anyway. It'll play fish as well (if not better) than a carbon equivalent. No, it won't throw a PVA bag and four ounce lead to the horizon, but contrary to popular belief, not all carp are that far from the bank.

I still use my two MkIVs for some seriously big carp in a six acre syndicate water. They do eveything I ask of them. When that forty-pound common I saw three years ago picks up my bait (and it will, sooner or later) I shall have no concerns at all about the rod, or the line (cane rods absorb shocks so much better than carbon ones).

Just remember to get your cane from Chapmans!

 

[flightliner]

PS - still use my home-made versions of Billy's very fine floats, though.

I still have one or two of the originals with the superfine bottom eyes that allowed a bait to sink really slowly when used as a slider-- Deadly on the Witham for roach and bream in the days when angling was angling. I still have my old Ernest Stamford swing tip rod-- now theres a rod that won more matches than any other!!

 

[dezza]

Go for it. A ten foot cane rod is not heavy, and would probably sit in rests much of the time anyway. It'll play fish as well (if not better) than a carbon equivalent. No, it won't throw a PVA bag and four ounce lead to the horizon, but contrary to popular belief, not all carp are that far from the bank.

I still use my two MkIVs for some seriously big carp in a six acre syndicate water. They do eveything I ask of them. When that forty-pound common I saw three years ago picks up my bait (and it will, sooner or later) I shall have no concerns at all about the rod, or the line (cane rods absorb shocks so much better than carbon ones).

Just remember to get your cane from Chapmans!

Why do cane rods absorbs shocks better than carbon Fred, and what's wrong with Agutter blanks?

I would like to hear the theory behind that one.

 

[chav professor]

Ahhh! let the vintage cane, take the strain!! I don't know about cane rods absorbing shocks better, just that a modern carp rod can be anything from 2.75 to 3.5lb testcurve. The MK4 is 1.5lb. If you read ****s account of landing Ravioloi (laterly known as Clarissa) it did take both himself and Peter Thomas to land it and and it did involve a lot of handlining as it weeded itself twice.

I would like to go up against a 40lb carp with my MK4, but I am anxious my skills would be equal to the job. It was designed when carp fishing was in its infancy and a fish of twenty pounds was a fish of a lifetime. If I had the money, I would like a stepped up version, maybe 1.75lb test..... just a thought....

 

[dezza]

And now the truth about the Mk IV carp rod.

Oh and before I get onto that, the concept of the test curve is flawed; in theory it can't exist, in practice, an approximation of a TC is the best we can achieve to determine the power of a fishing rod.

The original MkIV was named thus as it was the fourth attempt at a rod that would be ideal for all round carp fishing as it was known then. Previous marks had incorporated chopped down Wallis Avons and double built split cane jobs. The Mk III was double built and used by **** to land his 34 pounder.

When B James started making Mk IVs it was to ****'s original dimensions. But because a 44 pound fish had been landed on this rod, it was thought that it could be used for all sorts of other species weighing up to 40 pounds or therebouts. This was absolutely untrue. I saw a B James Mk IV get smashed by a pike whilst boat fishing on a Yorkshire lake in the 60s.

And to be honest, a lot of B James split cane was sub standard.

So what did they do?

They increased the dimensions by something like 10%, which upped the theoretical test curve to 2 lbs and made a rod that would stand a bit of abuse, something that the original would not.

Read Kevin Clifford's excellent book - "A History of Carp Fishing".

 

[Fred Blake]

Why do cane rods absorbs shocks better than carbon Fred, and what's wrong with Agutter blanks?

I would like to hear the theory behind that one.

Consider the question from the opposite end Ron. It is perfectly possible to make three rods of identical power, action and length from each of the three main materials - cane, glass and carbon. But are they the same? No. The carbon one will feel stiffer than the cane one, because carbon reacts faster to deflection. This is why carbon is so good for rods intended for long casting and striking at distance - it doesn't absorb as much energy as the older materials, resulting in more of the power being transmitted to the lead/flyline. Conversely, for playing a fish, you want a rod that can absorb some of the energy and cushion the shocks - a rod that smooths out the peaks and troughs if you like.

One could design a carbon rod to be softer than its cane equivalent by a pre-determined amount, in order to cancel out the inherent stiffness of the material, but then you end up with a rod that is a little too soft to control the fish close in, and lacking in resilience in the tip to strike a big hook home properly.

I merely suggest Chapmans cane on the basis that they will furnish you with a top quality blank with the correct taper for a MkIV. Other makers exist, and you are free to use whoever you prefer.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

how much would it cost to build such a cane rod Ron?

 

[the indifferent crucian]

I think the Walker Mark 1 was a chopped down Allcocks Wizard, Ron, not a Hardy FWK Wallis Avon, which are quite different rods.

Perversely they'd both be worth a fortune now....provided the top twelve inches hadn't been cut off.


Here's a bit by angling historian, carp angler and all-round good bloke Chris Ball.....


http://bruceandwalker.co.uk/library/history/Articles 1.pdf


Sorry it's a PDF file.

The remainder of the article, including as picture of a 'built to endure' rod with Walker's signature can be found here...go to the bottom of the page and open the PDF files supplied on the right.


Bruce and Walker

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

how much would it cost to build such a cane rod Ron?

That would rather depend on the fittings you chose to add and how much you were able to do yourself. A bare cane blank without ferrules and cork handle fitted is a good deal cheaper than one with this fiddly work already done. Cheapest of all is a built-cane blank still in the string that bound it, but it still needs straightening .


If you purchased a rod that only required the rings whipping on and any further decorative whippings before varnishing you would have to pay more. Probably over £250.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

lot of money still compared to a modern of the peg rod:wh

 

[Fred Blake]

lot of money still compared to a modern of the peg rod:wh

Lot of rod compared to a modern 'off the peg' one as well! You pays your money...